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    • Good evening DX100   Here is a draft of my response to the court order.  I would be obliged if you could review it and avise me if I am on the right track.   Defendant Statement of Position in Response to the Order of the Sheriff   The defendant suffered Severe Depression illness almost 12 months prior to the closer of the Bank account. HBOS was made aware of the defendant illness.  A Medical Certificate dated 15 Sept 2017 was handed over to the bank as a proof. (A copy of the report will be submitted exclusively to the court review) The defendant, with the support of her ex-partner, sought a resolution from the OC regarding the escalation of her OD account, which it was mostly formed of extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. HBOS agreed to reduce the outstand OD sum to £XXX and closed the account. The defendant is confident that her ex-partner has settled the agreed sum with OC, but not absolutely certain, considering her health state at that time. She has been actively trying to reach for her ex-partner for documented evidence, but the fact that, we believe, he is a currently deployed by the UK military forces abroad and communication has been, to put it politely, very difficult due to the nature of his deployment. As the court is aware, the defendant has been trying to retrieve the data of her dealing with/from OC which it should reflect history of the above.  The defendant has already written twice to HBOS, as well as visiting her bank branch, on 01 March 2021, in person demanding the requested data.  HBOS promised to send the data to her as soon as they can. In addition to the above reasoning and contend, the defendant refute the claimants claim is owed or payable.  Due to punitive and extortionate fees the facility became untenable. Any alleged balance  claimed will consist totally of default penalties, punitive charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety and any alleged balance was due to punitive and extortionate charges . It is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-               a.    Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and Conditions at inception, which this claim is based on.               b.    Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.               c.    Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account and justify how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.               d.    Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.               e.    Evidence how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.     10.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Same thing. The fact that you declared £4.99 means that is the extent of any reasonable foreseeably consequence. Just go for that small amount. If they cause any problems then you can have a laugh when they spend many times more than what you're claiming in order to resist you. In future, when you contract with somebody – you need to understand that effectively it is an exchange of the reasonable expectations which you create in each other by your agreement.  
    • Current situation: contacted myhermes website's robot talk about the parcel and waiting for their email response. Thanks @BankFodder   I understand that if I were going to pursue under contract law, £4.99 would be the amount that I am entitled for compensate. How about if I were going to pursue this matter under tort - negligence? Would this allow me to pursue them according the true value of the items?
    • Hi UncleB, thanks for responding. I did call them back and it appears to be hit & miss with Devitt and dependent upon which Customer service agent you get.   Spoke with a very pleasant lady and told her that I, like them recorded all calls and gave date time of call and specific time at which a green card was stipulated in order for me to take out the policy.   *Two days later a hard copy of the green card landed on my doorstep. *Free of charge too.
    • Have you received a Parking Ticket? - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group   please complete the above then we'll be best placed to advise further but the bottom line is no and don't ever appeal.    
  • Our picks

    • Ebay Packlink and Hermes - destroyed item as it was "damaged". https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/430396-ebay-packlink-and-hermes-destroyed-item-as-it-was-damaged/&do=findComment&comment=5087347
      • 25 replies
    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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question about the Work Programme/Ingeus for ESA claimants


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Hello

I've been on the Work Programme with Ingeus since October 2013 and up to now most of the people there have been OK with me.

Some of them have been really helpful.

 

Earlier this year, arthritis in my neck and shoulders started to get worse and I am currently getting physiotherapy for it.

I have other problems with chronic back, leg and groin pain, so some days I am as stiff as a board and find it very difficult to move about.

I am on a lot of pain medication.

 

Ingeus know about this.

About a month ago they changed my advisor.

 

In my first appointment with her she seemed OK, but was a bit aggressive in her manner.

She booked another appointment with me for two weeks later, but on that day I woke up and was in a lot of pain and could hardly move.

I called her about four hours before the appointment time to ask if she could rearrange the appointment because I was in a lot of pain.

She said “well, anyone could say that couldn't they?” and “I've only got your word for it”.

She went on to say that I may get sanctioned because of this, and booked another appointment.

 

I am worried now because this seems to me like Ingeus want to punish me for being in pain.

My GP has told me that these health problems will probably get worse, so its even more worrying.

 

I’d be very grateful for any comments or advice on what to say to Ingeus, because I don't know the rules of the WP and I'm scared to say anything that may cause them to sanction me.

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She booked another appointment with me for two weeks later, but on that day I woke up and was in a lot of pain and could hardly move.

 

She went on to say that I may get sanctioned because of this, and booked another appointment.

 

Was the original appointment made in writing (not an email) and did the letter say it was mandatory ?

 

If "no" to either of the above, a benefit doubt could be imposed, but should be overturned after a mandatory reconsideration.

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Wilsul says that s/he is on ESA, does this mean that s/he was put in the WRAG group when s/he was assessed?

Does it mean that the scoring at the assessment was not high enough to preclude her/him from WP altogether?

Could worsening health condition entitle Wilsul to a re-assessment of ESA?

Could a request for a re-assessment in such circumstances be accepted and if so would the requirement to attend WP while awaiting re-assessment still be necessary?

What are the rules about mandating claimants in the WRAG group? I thought they couldn't be mandated to participate in activities in the same way as claimants not on ESA can.

 

In the meantime I would consider sending a letter of complaint to the Ingeus manager about that adviser's aggressive attitude, being accused of lying despite their office being kept fully up to date with your worsening medical condition, and being threatened with a sanction for merely following the correct procedures.

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Many thanks for your reply.

When I went to Atos in 2013 they accepted what I was saying and told me that I didn't need to be physically examined.

I was only in there ten minutes.

The decision that I got from DWP said that they'd placed me in the wrag group, and an advisor told me that I should attend the WP.

You make a lot of very good points that I wasn't aware of and I am very grateful for the advice.

I will definitely ask Ingeus about being reassessed.

I'll ask to see the manager as well.

As you say, all I was doing was following the correct procedures!

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Does it mean that the scoring at the assessment was not high enough to preclude her/him from WP altogether?

 

They've scored enough points. But they don't meet the criteria for the support group.

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What are the rules about mandating claimants in the WRAG group? I thought they couldn't be mandated to participate in activities in the same way as claimants not on ESA can.

 

For current guidance on mandating Work Programme participants, see: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/427961/wp-pg-chapter-3a-22-october-2012-v13.pdf

 

ESA participants can not be mandated to apply for vacancies, undertake medical treatment (and I would suggest this also includes assessments), along with a few other things. The above document clearly describes the correct procedure for mandating the different groups of participants, and scribbling a date & time on an appointment card is not compliant with the process.

 

As this (non-compliant) appointment has been rebooked, I'd go as far to say that no Failure to Participate has occurred as per paragraph 43 (page 15) of Chapter 3a (see above link).

 

The "adviser" in question could send a benefit doubt off to the DWP, but without supporting evidence of a correctly worded letter, the OP should be able to successfully any sanction raised.

 

wilsul: It is well worth your time to read the Work Programme guidance as issued by the DWP. It forms part of the WP contract and you can use it against Ingeus if you feel they are trying to pull the wool over your eyes. I'd also strongly recommend recording all conversations just in case they try to make any false allegations.

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Many thanks for the advice Mr.P, I will read through the WP guidance.

Do you have to have their permission to record conversations?

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Many thanks for the advice Mr.P, I will read through the WP guidance.

Do you have to have their permission to record conversations?

 

You do not need their permission to record the conversations provided you keep that recording for your own personal use - don't go publishing it on YouTube or anything like that.

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The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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The problem is that advisers are hardly ever aware of the DWP Guidance and even when they do know them, they ignore them.

Doubts are raised and sanctions are imposed before the claimants know what's happening and when they do get to know it takes weeks to sort out and months to reclaim benefits withheld.

Best to nip it in the bud and act before the doubt is raised and the sanction imposed.

Wilsul, can you describe what it was about the adviser's manner that you found to be aggressive?

How would you put it if you were to formally complain about it?

As for recording interviews, Atone is right, you do not need permission, but advisers can refuse to conduct the interview if you tell them that you are recording them. Also, even if they did go ahead with the interview they are hardly going to say anything incriminating. Best to keep the recording device out of sight, in a pocket or bag, and not mention that you are recording.

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Thanks for your reply,

I'm not surprised that they are hardly ever aware of the guidance - after having a brief look at it, it is a lot of stuff to remember.

Like I said, in my first appointment with her she seemed OK - I could of said "abrupt" instead of "a bit aggressive".

I thought they had similar meanings. She certainly wasn't shouting or threatening towards me!

It wasn't my intention if I gave that impression.

If you do record conversations, and they caught you doing it, wouldn't they sanction you for that?

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If you do record conversations, and they caught you doing it, wouldn't they sanction you for that?

 

There was a Freedom of Information request a year or two back on the subject. The response appeared to be that you could record conversations.

 

I have been in the position where an "adviser" objected and called over a manager. I was instructed to cease or the meeting would be terminated with an implied threat of a sanction for failing to engage. The recording device was fumbled with and placed in my top pocket (still recording).

 

If you are wary of a confrontation, be discrete about it.

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Hi, as someone who deals with w/p - cwp programmes for a similar company, from what I see and hear not enough "successful outcomes", job starts are being produced. This entire system runs on a payment by result basis, meaning these companies are not getting enough money because they cant get enough people into work. So in my area the screws are being tightened up, J6s, esa claimants in wrag are being brought in for employability workshops, anything to get the claimant sat in front of a pc, to induce "intensive job search activity". As said before they are only supposed to support you, but believe me no one bothers with this, the only goal whether esa or job seeker is to get you into any job they can. Look through the forums as there is a link to the dwp guidance on this, print it out and be ready to show it if you need to remind them of the rules. regards.

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Thanks for your comments

One of the advisers that I got on well with told me broadly the same thing, and warned me that my adviser couldn't force me into anything.

Apparently there have also been a lot of redundancies in companies running the WP, so the screws are being tightened even more.

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Yes - your adviser can't force you to do anything that you can't do.

 

Also - if you're too sick to come in; but are otherwise ok, (ie, you can talk, you're not in hospital, etc) can you ask for a phone appointment instead? I had to fight for these though.

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Apparently there have also been a lot of redundancies in companies running the WP, so the screws are being tightened even more.

 

Which gives the 'customer' the opportunity to provide advice and guidance to those that are being made redundant.:madgrin:

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