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Barclaycard reclaiming penalties and Compound Int't **WON** (probably)


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I never paid an additional fee.

 

 

But I did just receive a letter asking to attend mediation in 3w time.

Will check later if I now need to pay a fee for this? Unless anyone has the answer now?

 

 

So - am panicking now....

I have been so busy working / away that I have not done any research or prepared anything.

Thanks Slick for saying the Bank's Defence looks pretty standard :-)

But what sort of paperwork do I need to present in the mediation?

And do I have to send it in advance to B'card.

I am still busy with work so need to get organised on the days I will be at home, especially if I need to send my papers in advance to Barc???

Any calming words of wisdom to stop my panic attack?

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Mediation is an allotted 1 hour phone call so theres no fee for this.

 

Have all your evidence/defence to hand and bullett point what you kniw you will need to say, understand the restitution if you are claiming interest at BC rates.

 

The mediator will ask questions to test your resolve and may flit between you and BC

 

Andy/DX have more knowledge and will pop up soon with further advice

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I am confused

Do I need to find T&Cs from 1988 _ which is when I opened the account.

Or:

Do I need the T&Cs from 2005 - which is when I am claiming from????

 

I do not have 1988 or 2005 - so if anyone has the T&Cs from these dates I would be most grateful

 

What kind of info do I need to prepare? I have read people talking about "bundles" in other threads - what kind of bundle am I expected to prepare for Mediation??

Am I expected to divulge info in advance to B'card?

 

I have 2 weeks before the allotted phone call.

 

Is this quite simple or is it really nerve-wracking?

 

I am away on work and not much time to prepare until next week. (Am trying to read other threads now and on off work moments)

 

Mediator just called. To ensure I will be available on set day / time.

They asked if I am willing to compromise...

I said I wasn't sure what they meant, but if it meant negotiation, then I guess, I said....

 

On a lot of the threads I have read, B'card seems to offer amounts to settle in advance of Mediation or Court. They haven't done that to me. Is that a bad sign :-( ????????????

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Hi Mum,

 

There's a court bundle that's been used in BC and other cases over a number of years to reclaim charges. If you need it, please reply to my PM to you.

 

You should always be willing to compromise to some extent. If you can settle before preparing and submitting your court bundle, this will save you many hours of work, a pool of ink and a few trees.

 

In Mediation, BC's legal rep is likely to argue against any chgs older than 6 years; and against paying compound restitutionary int't. You won't need to argue your case for claiming these in Mediation - you will simply say that you are confident of the sound basis of your claim and you will offer evidence (in the form of your "court bundle")to support this in court.

 

Let's say your total claim for chgs and int't is £2,500. Depending on your own feelings, you may be willing to accept £2,000 or £1,500 to settle at Mediation. Or you may prefer to seek the full amount of the claim (or close to it).

 

In any event, depending on the size of your claim, BC may only offer a far smaller amount than that which you're claiming.

 

It's not a bad sign that you've rec'd no offer from BC yet. Each claim is individual and there's no set path that will be followed.

 

Who is representing the bank in this case ?

 

They may prefer to see how Mediation goes before discussing any settlement terms.

 

:-)

 

Re the T&C's you mentioned, you should try and get T&C's for the time when the a/c was opened. If you sent BC a CCA request in the past, they should have sent you some T&C's that may be of help to you.

 

There's little you need to do before Mediation by phone.

 

However, if Mediation fails, you will need to put many hours of work into amassing the court bundle, sourcing further info about the cases of Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue Commissioners (re Statutory Int't); and Kleinwort Benson v Lincoln City Council (re s.32 Limitation Act 1980).

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Hi Mum,

 

Thanks for the PM which I've dealt with.

 

I understand a further court fee of £40 was payable on submission of the DQ. Can you check this with the court office.

 

This applies to any claim for £1,500 or more.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Oh

They haven't said anything about this yet - its straight to Mediation next week.

Should I call CCMCC?

Or wait for the Mediation and bring it up then?

 

Thanks for the PM too.

 

I am still unsure what I need to use a court bundle for? Sorry to be so stupid. I haven't given this my full attention due to other serious issues going on in the background of my life... Very nervous as I realise it does need my full attention to succeed.

 

This w/e I will research:

Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue Commissioners (re Statutory Int't); and Kleinwort Benson v Lincoln City Council.

I guess I need to go over my own case and read as many other threads/cases as I can and write bullet points on one page to help me remember. But I am now nervous about how to argue my case in a mediation call?

 

PS the Sols are Dentons

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Hi Mum,

 

I think you should call the court office asap to see if you owe any fee. Do not mention this at all with regard to mediation.

 

The "court bundle" is the written evidence that you File and Serve in support of your claim. You're right to refer to the Sempra Metals and the Kleinwort Benson cases and these must be included in the bundle.

 

You are unlikely to have to argue your case in court at a final hearing as cases are usually resolved before then. But you may have to File and Serve the bundle, thus showing BC that you're prepared to see the case as far as necessary to win.

 

If Mediation fails (BC sol'rs are unlikely to make an acceptable offer), you'll have to see what court Directions are made with regard to timescales.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Thanks slick

I called ccmcc - and NO fees due yet. They could see that Mediation was on my file and said I would only pay more £s if it goes to a hearing (£170)

 

 

Very stressed - but hope to put aside time to study tonight and this w/e.

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The fee is payable once Notice of Allocation is issued and its stated in the directions when the fee is payable.

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Thanks for clarifying that.

 

The Directions will confirm when your evidence has to be filed and served and you MUST make sure you prepare in advance, so you're ready to print out the bundle copies. Best to gather the info on your PC saved in files ready to print if needed.

 

After Mediation, you can start negotiating with the sol's to see if you can reach a settlement before the bundles are due in. But don't count on this - the bundles may have to be filed and served to keep your case on-track.

 

Other *WON* threads will offer guidance.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Does anyone have T&Cs for:

1988 (account opened)

2005 (claiming from this date)

 

Would be most grateful.

 

I have been reading some old WON cases and also reading through bundle info.

 

 

I am still a little confused as to how and when I need to present any details from the compiled bundle???

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Hi all

 

Am searching for Barclays T&Cs for 1988 and 2005.

 

 

Does anyone have these available?

Have mediation coming up later this week and would love to have sight of the original T&Cs before hand

 

 

Thanks,

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Hi Mum,

 

Sorry I can't help with the T&C's. Have you any T&C's in response to a CCA Request (did I ask this Q earlier ?).

 

If Mediation fails, a DQ will be issued. When the court gets the DQ back, the case will be allocated to Track and Directions will be issued by the court setting out the hearing date, and the date by which your evidence (court bundle) must be Filed and Served. This is normally 14 days before the final hearing.

 

If you don't reach a settlement agreement before the evidence deadline. You'll File and Serve the evidence.

 

If you don't reach settlement before the hearing date, you'll have to attend the hearing and argue your case using the most important points your evidence.

 

The majority of cases against BC do not go to a court hearing. If you're lucky, they'll settle before the evidence is due in. Otherwise, you'll have to submit the evidence.

 

Once you do this, BC will hopefully see that you're serious and will be more likely to settle before the hearing date.

 

So, although you'd hope not to have to present your case at the final hearing, it is always a possibility.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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might be worth scanning some BC threads see if anyone uploaded any for their own case

 

which barclaycard did/do you have

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I'd send BC a CCA request.

 

You don't need the T&C's for Mediation at all. This process is to see if the mediator can narrow down the issue(s) that are preventing the 2 sides from reaching agreement and work around them.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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found some from 2005 but struggling for 1998 atm, havent given up yet tho

 

see attached

barclaycard terms and conditionds1-2005 (2 files merged).pdf

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Thank you Martin. You are a star for the 05 t&cs xxx The account opening t&cs needed are from 1988 (not 98) But I suspect that 05 will suffice for the moment as that is from when I am claiming.

 

I hope today goes well....

 

The Baarc card was a visa. I still have it - it is just suspended cos they have attached the unenforceable egg card debt to it!! (that is another issue to deal with another time....)

 

Maybe it is worth setting up a Stickie with old T&Cs ???? Make it easy for others to locate

 

I have gone through all my old statements back to 05 from when claiming.

The lowest APR was 18.9 purchases & 21 for cash in 05

In Aug 06 the APRs were 24.9 & 27.9

In Sep 11 the APRs were 29.9 & 29.9 - stayed at this % ever since.

 

I have claimed 29.9 since 05. Yet 6y were at a lower level; last 5y at higher 29.9%

Am I ok to claim 29.9 since 05?

Or should I be willing to compromise with the Mediator at a middle ground?

 

Is my main argument v Barc:

The charges were:

unfair

disproportionate

they have benefited from my £s over 11 years

 

Or do I have to argue anything else?

 

Why and how do I argue that the charges were punitive and a penalty and unenforceable at common law ?

 

Did Barc change the way they described charges

- from a penalty charge to a default charge

- to prevent these type of claims against them?

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Morning mum, sorry you appear to have been talking to yourself 😊

What i meant re which BC was it was relating to such products as

Bc Cashback

Bc initial

They all had slightly differring t&c's

 

Your case is for unlawful charges

Re read your POC, that is what you are arguing

 

Unfairness, not a gpeol, a penalty

OFT never stated £12 was fair, but rather that it was set as a point at which they wouldnt intervene, BC and the rest just interpret it that way because it suits them to, doesnt make it right

Restitutionary interest as that is the enrichment BC woukd have earned from products like "initial" which was upto 29.9% in some cases.

 

Bullet point/ highlight your points with reference to the cases you will be relying on and more importantly what parts of the cases.

 

It might help to set the documents out that you need on a table infront of you when the mediator calls so you can quickly reference them.

 

Have a figure in mind that you woukd be happy to settle at.

 

For eg:

A claim for £3000 inc rest int

 

You may be happy with £2000 or £2500

 

Its your choice but thats what the mediator will be trying to do to save the court the time of a trial.

 

You may be asked how you would feel if you lost in court?

 

Dont view it as being BC and the mediator against you, they are there to try and negotiate a settlement that BOTH parties will be happy with.

 

Hope it goes well but BC tend to offer low at this stage and up it once mediation has failed but dont simply see it as it WILL fail, it is a genuine opprtunity for resolution

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Dont panic about it, most people come back and report that it wasnt as bad as they were expecting and in fact was a pleasant experience

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cheeky so and so defence

Refusing to accept KB v Lincoln and Sempra Metals - say its been proved to be flawed.

Wont go back beyond 6y

offered tiny % of my charges alone and no CI

 

standing ground so far. Say will rely on that case law and many successful claims v Barc who have used such case law

altho' think most people have confidentiality clauses in success !!

Did suggest a figure to settle - but Barc offer was SO low that I assume mediation will fail and this will have to go to court

 

Yes - mediation is useful. It really shows how prepared you need to be

 

Barc suggest WAS a breach of contract

Say claim is flawed, 2 case laws are flawed and wont stand up in court as relevant / wont entertain anything beyond the 6y limitation - precluded in law from going back. KB doesn't apply

Mediator wanted me to name success stories as proof. Just said I was confident that I had enough facts to back up case and would argue this in court with more time to hand

 

Can I ask Barc to prove how much it really cost? ie not £20 or £12

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Dont let it wind you up mum, its just part of the process, i would expect an offer pretty soon

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Phew.

Impossible to negotiate with Barc Sols. They stood ground, said the Judge would never accept these 2 Cases as reasons to allow charges back to 05 and to charge CI. I would be put to strict proof 'how'.

The Mediator also stressed that they and Barc were aware of websites/forums which advise on success stories but said very few actually succeed and I should be very careful about taking this to court....

They did increase their offer a bit to include charges beyond 6y but discounted their offer to take into account costs - so only a fraction of my claim.

I am a bit confused. Is this normal?

I suggested that Barc & I could correspond in writing to try and negotiate a settlement in advance of any hearing. Do most people enter into communication or wait for Barc to write first?

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Ball is firmly in BC court.

Not worth getting into whether a judge would accept this or that as it wont see a court anyway.

With regard to successess, they are technically right as BC always settle before trial anyway.

So no rulings means no successes, yet we see here people who have had successful outcomes because BC have settled before trial

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