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HP Mum

HP Mum v Creation (Store Card) reclaim late fees HELP

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Hi

 

I was going through my file of statements for a Store Card taken out in 03 and realise that there is a long list of Late Payment Fees added over the years.

Creation has always been the company receiving my payments on behalf of the store. And has always been the company inundating me with calls when I miss a payment !!

 

I do use the store card every now and again. I do pay monthly, sometimes clearing the balance in total, sometimes paying the minimum. sometimes a higher amount.

There is currently £500 owing.

 

I have added up all the Late Payment Fees. (Actually Creation changed the name to "Default Sum Fee - Arrears" in end 2008.)

The fees have been £10, £12 & £22.

From mid 2005 to date the sum total of charges is: apx £240.

Compound Interest is apx £995

Total Charges + CI is apx £1235

 

So their statement says I owe £500. Yet I consider, given the above figures generated from a CI spreadsheet, that they owe £1235.

 

So should I write to them a letter saying I want these charges + compound interest reimbursed to me???

 

In addition since Jan 2015 Creation has added "Interest on Purchases and Default Sums (if applicable).

So 6 months of interest charges on their charges??!!

This doesn't sound like fair practise....

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I have drafted a simple letter suggesting that they owe me the above amounts. And I have asked them to reimburse me or I will commence court action.

Is this the right course of action to take?

Especially as I would like to keep the store card !!

Advice is welcome

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If I posted a letter 13th of the month, by when should they reply ??

Is it 14 business days from the day of posting?

 

Or 14 days from posting ??

 

 

Or 14 days from expected / signed for receipt ??

 

 

Just need to work out when to send the lba !

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Hello HP Mum,

Seems you could do with some help?

 

Just had a quick scoot over your dilemma.

 

First thing I would advise, is not to threaten legal action so quickly.

 

Secondly, have you gone through their complaints procedure either by email customerenquiries@creation.co.uk or letter?

Creation Customer Enquiries

Chadwick House

Blenheim Court

Solihull

B91 2AA

 

They have eight (8) weeks in which to satisfy your complaint before you're able to escalate it.

 

Do you have sight of ALL the statements from inception to date?

Or will you need to send them a SAR?


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi and thanks.

 

 

I sent a letter to the address you quoted asking them to refund all the charges that had just been brought to my attention as being unlawful. I attached the CI spreadsheet. It was my adaptation of the preliminary letter asking them for restitutionary interest.

I gave them 14 days to respond - which is what the library template letter had said....

 

 

I have all the statements.

And have used these statements to work out the spreadsheet.

 

The letter was sent 2 weeks ago.

So I was thinking the 14 days would be up soon.

If it is 8 weeks, irrespective of my request for an answer / reimbursement within 14 days, then its start Sept....

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8 weeks is the usual time frame companies like to give themselves to rectify complaints,

however if your letter specifically stated 14 days, did it state working or calender days?


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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An Update

 

 

I still have not received a reply from Creation to my letter. Just the next month's statement as usual - with another default notice for missing a payment and £12 charge .

I did not make the last month's alleged due payment - as my Reclaim letter clearly showed they owed me more than I owe them...

 

 

Their billing / customer service / statements come from the same address to which I wrote.

 

 

As I have had no reply, just a normal statement/pre-advise bill for next month, I have resent the same letter I first sent plus a new letter - stating LBA - and increasing the amount to include the recent £12 penalty charge and increased compound interest.

No calls. No reply yet.

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I still have not received any reply to my letters - including the LBA.

 

 

Instead Creation are continuing to write to me as if they have not received these 2 letters - and instead just saying I am 2 months late with my monthly payments. The same address.

Using the spreadsheet they owe me more than I owe them.

 

 

So now what should I do?

Send another LBA registered to them today??

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LBA's should always bee sent registered post yes, did you not do this?

 

How long has it been since you first raised your complaint?


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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HI

and thanks

NO - I just sent regular post.

Should I now re-send the same (just update the spreadsheet) registered???,

 

 

I guess they have received them - but are using tactics against me...

 

 

The first letter went mid July,

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Yup you need to send it registrerd post. Keep a copy of the letter and attach proof of postage AND delivery.

 

Only do this if you intend to actually issue a small claims. WE can help you do that.

 

Find their head office address and send to the company secretary


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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Their address is:

Creation Consumer Finance

Chadwick House

Blenheim Court

Solihull

B91 2AA

It is normal for them to not respond to letters. Make sure you send your post 1st class and keep your receipt. This way when they claim they have not received it, you have proof. This is not a normal company so do not expect normal customer service. They will bend and break the rules and will attempt to deceive you. Contact the FCA for more information on how to deal with them. Complain! If you don't they will not change.

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Having dealt recently with a number of complaints, I was boxed at every turn. My solution was to register at MCOL and start a process to claim. I took screen shots of every stage and compiled a pdf of the complaint with my issues, I added a final paragraph stating that if the refunds were not forthcoming by xxx xxx I would pay the Court fee.

 

The amount of time before the refund was issued took less than 1 week. I got the cheque before my claim went live but only just. Since then I have had no more letters from them or any calls.

 

The reason for my complaint was they kept changing my DD date without notifying me correctly.


If I have been of any help, please click on my star and leave a note to let me know, thank you.

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Thanks for that info.

 

I will resend all the previously sent letters recorded delivery

You are correct - I should have known better. Even if 1 day late with a payment (on payment dates that keep changing) they harass with up to 15 calls a day.

 

To make it worse - they have now lodged a Default with CRAs. Grrrrrr

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Even if 1 day late with a payment (on payment dates that keep changing) they harass with up to 15 calls a day.

 

That's a criminal offence!

You might like to inform them of that, and that you will be reporting them to your local police station for said criminal offence of harassment.

 

There is this letter you can send them also, which puts them under zero illusion of their actions.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387367-Harassment-by-Telephone-**Update-21st-April-2014**


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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HI

Here we are 1st October - and still NO response to my recorded delivery CI Sheet and LBA. Which was sent 3 weeks ago. (And which was a copy of the normal post letters that had been sent in July & Aug)

But I have received another "you are in serious arrears / default letter" from them.

 

 

SO - should I now just compile a Claim ?

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Ok

I am going to file a claim.

Still heard nothing.

But another default on cra.

 

Has anyone filed a claim for compound interest against creation?

not done this before. maybe need hand held !!!

 

ps - am still receiving daily calls from them. They hang up when the call gets diverted to a message service.

 

Should I use Money Claims online service?

 

Just looking at MCO now.

 

Im the Claimant - do I have to provide my email / phone details on the Claimant sections? At the moment Creation don't have my email address or home phone# Is it enough to just write my address?

 

Guessing Creation Finance Services are the Defendant. I will give their Soilhull address.

 

Reference - would I put in here my Creation Account Number ?

 

The description - brief - do I just say that they have unlawfully applied charges which I am now reclaiming? Full - do I explain the exact charges applied wrongly? And why I am reclaiming outside 6y limit?

 

Disclosure - what do I put in this box?

 

Discovery - not sure what I put in this box?

 

Attachments - do I add the compound spreadsheet here, with updated balance?

 

And is the fee £180 ? (under 10k)

 

OR

Should I print out the N1 form and post to CCMC Salford ?

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Can anyone advise best steps on filling out the POC (as above questions) please?? Clock is ticking and I have done nothing, but Creation are chasing and have defaulted me unnecessarily

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I wrote again and Creation has ignored me again.

They have now passed my details on to WestMidland. I guess this is an in house muppet...

Their time is up. So now I must file the POC

Does any one have any history with creation on making a claim against them?

Anyone holding my hand on this will be great....

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OK

An update. If anyone is interested?? No-one seems to be answering me :-(

 

Creation had continued to send me defaults. I have signed receipts of my letters to them since the summer.

They appointed their in-house 'specialist' debt collectors - wmd. They have in turn never acknowledged my recorded delivery letters.

Instead they have continued to threaten legal action.

 

I guess they are playing me. Waiting for me to make the Claim I have been threatening.

 

So now I have started to file a claim.

 

Can someone help please?

 

Please can someone help?

 

I want to file a claim against Creation.

I have gone online and signed into an account with Money Claim Online.

I am now trying to fill in the MCOL form

 

Date money became owed to me? is this the date of their first penalty charge? ie 2004 ??

 

There is a box and I have to fill in a short statement of my claim and why. Not much space. What should I put in here?

Do I put brief details and then elaborate later?

 

I am trying to access the library to help me fill out a POC via MCOL - but it wont give me access.

Why?

What do I need to do to access it?

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I have no experience in this, sorry, but hopefully someone will be able to advise accordingly.

 

IMO though, if they are ignoring you, then I would do exactly the same, they are clearly not going to carry out their threats, they are just stringing you along because you keep responding to their idle threat letters.

 

I'll have to go back over the thread to refresh my memory.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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HP Mum, responding to the email you sent to Admin. I think it is quite possible you are attempting to access the old library. Can you click on the links in my signature or use the Green Library Tab at the top left of the screen and see if what you are looking for is in there.

 

Meanwhile, I will send S.O.S. to others on the site team for them to look in with some advice :)

 

Follow the link below for the Small Claims Court Guide

 

https://www.warrington.gov.uk/info/201127/trading_standards/1043/trading_standards/8

 

CAG Library linked below.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?403-CAG-Library

 

Please can someone help?

 

I want to file a claim against Creation.

I have gone online and signed into an account with Money Claim Online.

I am now trying to fill in the MCOL form.

 

Date money became owed to me? is this the date of their first penalty charge? ie 2004 ??

 

There is a box and I have to fill in a short statement of my claim and why. Not much space. What should I put in here?

Do I put brief details and then elaborate later?

 

In answer to your first question, have you completed a spread sheet with all the Penalty charges ? And yes, I would say that the first charge would be the date the money first became owed to you.

 

You should have sufficient space to put a "brief" outline of what you are claiming and why. You would then beef it up in your Witness statement.

 

Did you send a Letter before Claim ?

 

Step 5) Claim Particulars

 

This is your opportunity to explain what money is owed to you and why. You will need to

provide a statement, called the particulars of claim (POC), explaining what you are claiming

for. You will also need to state the amount you are claiming.

 

The POC are restricted to 24 lines of 45 characters and a total of 1080 characters. If you type

more than this the last part of your text will not appear on the claim. Please be aware that the

website will only accept the following punctuation; full stop, comma, pound signs.

 

If you do not have enough space to explain your claim online and you need to serve extra,

more detailed particulars on the defendant, please tick the box that appears after the

statement ‘you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant’.

 

Please be aware this will then reduce the amount of space left in the main particulars box by three lines. This is

because a statement is automatically added explaining you will be serving further particulars.

 

You will be able to see the extra information added in the next screen “Summary”. For more

information please see the ‘Serving additional Particulars of Claim’ section. If you have

enough space to explain your claim online do not tick this box.

 

This should also help


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

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Hi Mum,

 

Do you know exactly what to call them, as the Defendant ?

 

Creation Financial Services Ltd at Chadwick House, Blenheim Court, Solihull, West Midlands B91 2AA - is this the one ? I'm not sure personally.

 

Getting this right is vital though.

 

Also, remember that not all banks will repay Compound Int't as easily as Barclays, t/a Barclaycard.

 

:-)


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Thank you all for replying.

 

I have dug around a bit and found some advice that says it is better to send in the N1 form and not file online with Money Claims - cos of the restriction in lines and what one can write - which could lead to the claim being stayed.. Is this right??

So I have downloaded a .pdf N1.

Started to fill it in.

 

Yes I have sent prelims and a LBA to Creation. They have ignored every letter I have sent. As have their in-house debt collectors. They just continue to default the account and increase the alleged debt. I was on the point of writing to the debt collectors a letter about not chasing a debt whilst it is in dispute. Then I decided that they must know that and I would be better to just file the Claim I have been saying I will file for months !!

 

The Defendant address is Chadwick House, yes.

 

I appreciate Creation may not be the same as barc. But I am prepared to try. (hsbc just made me an offer (rejected) which has increased my confidence) I have sent them regularly updated spreadsheets of CI. My alleged debt is £500+. Their penalty charges are £300+ CI amounts to £1k+ Totalling £1.4k. I would like to Claim before the CI pushes it above £1500 and I have to pay more in court fees.

 

I have copied examples of other POCs. But haven't yet found any that show what to write in the first big box - Brief Outline of Claim.

I will check the links you have suggested to see if there is anything there.

 

Just one thing - I cant find the original date I got the card. I have statements dating back to early 04. But I think I got the card before then, circa 03. So when I have to write "I entered into an Agreement with x2... do I have to put the date? Or can I put on or around 03 ?

 

Thank you all again for this input. much appreciated.

 

Already useful link - now realise I have to put in "IN THE" box: Northampton County Court as it is a small claim. I thought I had to put my local court !

 

Also - Creation have not sent me the T&Cs from when the account was opened. Nor up to date T&Cs.

Will this be a problem in filing a claim against them and not being able to refer to the old or current T&Cs ?

 

Morning :-)

 

 

I am filling in a N1 form

 

In the: Northampton CC (as small claim)

 

in the Brief Details of Claim box I have written:

Money claim for return of credit card account default charges and interest in restitution on those charges.

Account Number xxxx

 

In the Value box I have written:

Reclaim of Charges, £xxx

Interest in Restitution, £xxx

Value to date: £xxx

Interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 29.9% pa on the amount claimed (daily rate of £xx) until judgment or sooner payment.

 

In the POC box

I have written: POC attached x sheets

 

Is this all correct?

 

For the actual POC sheets which I will attach I have compiled the below.

I am a bit stuck on their T&Cs - I don't have them from account opening day or now. I will now check the forum for t&cs from similar dates - but do I have to attach them as a schedule 2 ?? (Schedule 1 will be my SoC)

Other queries in red

 

N1

IN THE Northampton County Court

BETWEEN

Me (Claimant)

and

CFS (Defendant)

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

1. The Claimant entered into an agreement (“The Agreement”) with the Defendant on or around xxxx whereby the Defendant was to advance credit facilities to the Claimant under a running credit account, Account no x ("The Account").

 

2. The Agreement essentially consisted of the Defendant ‘CFS’ providing the Claimant with a credit card (“The Card”) which would allow the Claimant to make purchases and receive cash advances on credit. In return the Defendant was entitled to charge interest at the published rate.

 

3. The Agreement was a Regulated Agreement for the purposes of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

4. At all material times the contract was subject to the Defendant’s standard terms and conditions which could be varied from time to time. (Particulars in Schedule 2 - if I can find them !!)

Summary

 

5. Throughout the course of the Agreement, the Defendant has added numerous default charges to the Account for the Claimant’s failure to make the minimum payment on the due date and or for exceeding the credit limit and or if a payment is returned. (Full particulars set out in schedule 1).

 

6. The default charges were applied in accordance with the standard terms of The Agreement:

a) A penalty payable on breach of contract and thus unenforceable: and

b) An unfair term under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (“The Regulations”) and therefore not binding on the Claimant

7. The Claimant is accordingly entitled to repayment of the sums wrongly added to the Account.

 

The Charges

8. The standard Terms of the Agreement in substance provided as follows:

(a) The Defendant would provide the Claimant with the Card. The Claimant was entitled to use the Card to make purchases and receive cash advances up to a credit limit (“the Limit”) set by the Defendant. The Defendant could unilaterally change the Limit by giving the Claimant notice in writing.

(b) The Defendant was entitled to charge interest on the purchases and cash advances at the published rate.

© The Claimant was to pay the minimum payment of 3% of the amount owed or £5 (whichever was the greatest) by the due date as notified in the monthly statements.

Not sure? Need to check t&cs

(d) The Defendant was entitled to charge default fees (“the Charges”) where the Claimant exceeded the Limit, did not pay on the due date or had a payment returned.

The default Charges were: £x from and during xx xx to xx xx; £x from and during xx xx to xx xx, £x in xx and xx

Penalty

9. The amount of the Charges exceeded any genuine pre-estimate of the damage which would have been suffered by the Bank in relation to the Claimant’s transgressions.

 

10. In the premises the Charges were punitive and a penalty and thus unenforceable at common law.

The Regulations

11. At all material times the Claimant was a consumer within the Regulations.

 

12. At all material times the terms of the Agreement providing for the Charges were unfair within regulation 5 of the Regulations in that contrary to the requirement of good faith they caused a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations to the detriment of the Claimant.

 

13. Without prejudiceto the burden of proof, the Claimant will refer to the following matters in support of the contention that the terms are to be assessed as unfair as at the time of the conclusion of the Agreement, and of each revision to the Standard Terms.

(1) The terms relating to Charges were standard terms; they would not be individually negotiated.

(2) The Charges were a penalty for breach of contract.

(3) The Charges exceeded the costs which the Bank could have expected to incur in dealing with the exceeding of the credit limit, late payment or returned payment.

(4) Accordingly the Charges were a disproportionate charge incurred by the Claimant for their failure to meet their contractual obligation and thus within the ambit of Schedule 2 (1) (e) of the Regulations and indicative of an unfair term.

(5) As the Bank knew, the Charges were of subsidiary importance to the customer in the context of the Agreement as a whole and would not influence the making of the Agreement.

(6) As the Defendant knew, the Claimant had no means of assessing the fairness of the Charges

(7) In the premises, the effect of the Charges would be prejudicial to the customer who incurred them, and cause an imbalance in the relations of the parties to the Agreement by subordinating the customer’s interests to those of the Defendant in a way which was inequitable.

 

14. Without prejudice to the burden of proof, the Claimant will contend that the terms imposing the Charges are not core terms under regulation 6 of the Regulations and rely on the following matters:

1) The assessment of fairness does not relate to terms which define the main or core subject matter of the Agreement.

(2) The assessment of fairness does not relate to the adequacy of the price or remuneration as against the goods or services supplied in exchange (in other words, whether or not the relevant services were value for money).

3) The Charges are correctly described as default charges by the Defendant in the key information provided to new customers.

15. By reason of the said matters the terms were not binding under regulation 8 of the Regulations.

 

16. The Defendant wrongly applied Charges to the Account totalling some £xxx between xx and xx. Particulars appear in Schedule 1.

17. On xx date the Claimant demanded repayment of the sums wrongly applied.

 

18. The Defendant has not repaid them or any of them.

 

And the Claimant claims:

(1) A declaration that the sums totalling £x have wrongly been applied to the Account. Some of these charges are older than the normal 6 yearsbut are claimed by virtue of s32 (1)© Limitations Act 1980 as per Kleinwort Benson -v- Lincoln City Council.

 

(2) Payment of the said sum of £x and interest of in restitution of £x (total to date £x) as per the case of Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue Commissioners.

(3) Interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 29.9% per annum on the amount claimed (daily rate of £x) until judgment or sooner payment.

used total x 0.000819 to get daily rate.

4) Court costs of £xx.00

I believe that the facts stated in these particulars, comprising of x pages, are true.

Dated

Signed

 

Please:

Can someone have a look at the poc above and advise if ok to file?

Would be good to get this in this week, before Xmas

Thanks

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Be patient when others are available they will advise.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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