Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Thank you Bank Fodder for your reply. Il certainly do that
    • Googled it and Family Money Savers purchased the assets of Key Financial Claims, there’s also threads confirming that they have acted as agents of Key. A firm going into liquidation does not nullify a contract so whether or not you owe the money will depend on when the offer of compensation was made. I would call them in the first instance to question it, all CMCs have to record all calls now, and you can make the subject access request over the phone. The fact that it’s taken 6 and a half years doesn’t make the contract invalid. 
    • the business and assets of Key Financial Claims were bought out of administration on a going-concern basis on 10 December 2015 by connected company Family Money Savers (FMS) for an initial payment of £30,000.   addition, the company is due to receive 10 per cent of FMS' revenues from Key Financial Claims' pipeline and 25 per cent of FMS' own revenues of which the company previously received 15 per cent. ………..     pers i'd ignore them.  
    • Hi, I currently have a Court case going on against Hartley Wintney Motors whereby I am trying to reject a car under the 30-day thing, as the car broke down 29 days after I purchased it. I was notified by the Court that the Judge had ordered for it to be referred to the Motor Ombudsman for dispute resolution. TMO advised that this could take up to 6 months as they are currently dealing with cases older than mine. Yesterday, through the Money Claims portal, I had notification that HWM had made an offer. I am trying to claim back £3,100. That's the cost of the car at £2,500 + the cost of a warranty. So there offer is:  "We can pay £2500 on 23 October. You must deliver the vehicle with all keys, logbook by 23 September. If you are not agreeable, business is closing soon, and any judgement awarded in the small claims court is also unenforceable. You will then need to dispose the vehicle."   So, firstly, why should I have to return the car? It doesn't go. I would have to pay for a truck to get it back to them. If the business is closing why do they want the car? Why would I give them the car a whole month before they pay me? They could scrap the car and there goes my evidence. Is the business closing? Their website still has over 60 cars for sale. Are they just trying to force me to take their reduced offer?  I have checked on Companies House and in June they filed a notice for compulsory strike off. One week later the strike off action had been discontinued. I've also contacted TMO to try and ascertain if this offer is in conjunction with them, as I haven't received any communication from them advising the same. If my matter is still waiting to be dealt with by TMO, why would HWM just randomly make an offer, when from the beginning they have been adamant that I am in the wrong?   I would very much appreciate any thoughts from people.   Thank you.     
  • Our picks

Goingup00

Help with Harlands Nasty CRS Warnings

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1507 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hello

 

I hope you can help me, I joined the local Gymetc in August 2014, in January I decided I wanted to cancel my membership so I wrote to the gym and sent a cheque for the 6 remaining payments. I didn't hear anything back so presumed it was all ok, I then received a letter to say my Direct Debit hadn't been paid, I rang the gym and told them I had sent payment by cheque to cancel as my friend had done the same and they said it was fine.

 

Fastforward to another month and I received another letter from CRS stating that I was now being fined for failure to pay to the tune of £307.25 to include arrears and a penalty clause.

 

I emailed them to advise what I had done and said that I was only willing to pay what I owed 6 months payments and if I hadn't heard back within 14 days then I would presume the matter was resolved.

 

It took 6 weeks for them to email me to say they had contacted the gym and that I was lying and I still owe £307.25 they claim I only made 4 payments but I paid my first month up front by debit card and then a further 4 so I owe 7 if I am correct? I then received another threatening letter so I sent the standard holding email asking for a copy of my contract as I have never seen or signed anything I paid over the phone when I joined.

 

I then received the following email back today very lengthy and now I am really worried, I need to renew my mortgage soon and am concerned that I will struggle if they have registered defaults against me. I have been in tears tonight and finally decided to join your forum for help. :(

 

Please can anyone help?

 

The Thread is below

 

Dear Mrs xx

 

Re: CRS Ref No:

 

Further to your email of 1st July 2015 we would point out that you have entered into a legally binding agreement with GymEtc to pay a minimum of twelve payments of £21.99 by Direct Debit of which you have paid only four. Your only dispute to date has been that you allege to have paid the remainder of your contract by cheque. We suspended action against you, investigated this one and only dispute and have furnished you with clear explanation as to why your claims are invalid. Please explain, therefore, why we should not continue to pursue you for this balance which we have every reason to believe is correct and due?

 

If you are unsatisfied with our conduct then we recommend you take independent legal advice, however, you will be unable to make a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading because they have not existed for more than a year. They were succeeded by the Financial Conduct Authority on 1st April 2014, however, as of 1st June 2015, we are not regulated by the FCA either.

 

With regards to your dispute of the additional fees which have been added you have implied that it is your opinion that the charges you have incurred are unreasonable, unenforceable and unlawful. We dispute this position.

 

In the case of Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage & Motor Co Ltd (1914), when considering deciding whether a charge applied at a rate specified at the outset of the agreement was a penalty, Lord Dunedin set out that:

 

"It is no obstacle to the sum stipulated being a genuine pre-estimate of damage, that the consequences of the breach are such as to make precise pre-estimation almost an impossibility. On the contrary, that is just the situation when it is probable that pre-estimated damage was the true bargain between the parties ( Clydebank Case, Lord Halsbury; Webster v. Bosanquet, Lord Mersey)."

 

The above applies to the cost of £25.00 applied in line with clause 6 of the terms of this agreement, which you have agreed to be bound by, and states that "If you fail to pay any monies due under this agreement or if any Direct Debit is returned unpaid or any cheque is returned unpaid or if any other form of payment is not honoured for whatever reason, you shall pay us on demand an administration fee of £25 (which we require to cover our costs of seeking to pursue such payment from you)."

 

£25.00 is the amount deemed by Harlands' directors as representative of their average costs in dealing with the administration involved with a missed or returned payment. When they submit for a payment by Direct Debit which is then returned, they are charged by the bank. This amount does not amount to £25.00, however, and we concede that the cost of the paper, envelope and franking of the default letters does not make up the entirety of the rest of the sum, however, as a business they have to pay overheads for staff wages, whose employment would not otherwise be required if it were not for the missed or returned payments and furthermore pay overheads for office space and increased usage of utilities, equipment, furniture and stationery to accommodate these staff and the processes involved with the administration involved with missed or returned payments, costing hundreds of thousands of pounds every year. It is our position, therefore, that all of these costs are incurred as a direct result of a breach of contract by those who default on their agreements, which, in this instance, is you.

 

The above precedent also applies to the to our own collection fees, which are applied at the outset of debt recovery action to cover all expected costs associated with that action. This is in line with clause 8 of your agreement, which states:

 

"If you fail to pay any amount due under this agreement for a period of more than thirty days, then we may pass the debt to a third party company for collection. The reasonable and direct costs incurred in employing the third party company will be borne by you including costs in tracing you if you have changed your address without telling us."

 

To be clear, the addition of these charges in such circumstances is stipulated in the terms of your agreement. It is our position, based upon legal advice, that our charges are lawful and in line with all relevant guidance.

 

We are unable to enclose a signed copy of your minimum term membership agreement, as this was entered into via an online sign up process called SNAP and as such, no signed physical document exists. We assure you, however, that despite this, it remains a legally binding agreement, and to our knowledge is fully enforceable. We have, however, sent in the post a copy of the terms and conditions of that agreement, as well as all of the information transmitted from the website at the time of joining, including the personal details you supplied (highlighted in green) and the product information supplied to you (highlighted in yellow).

 

Our position remains as previously advised. If you are not willing to set up a payment plan with us, we have no alternative but to proceed with further action against you. We will hold this for a further 7 days. If you advise us again that you do not intend to pay, we will continue our collection procedure, but will not continue to enter into further correspondence as our decision has been made.

 

Payment can be made by Credit/Debit card by calling us on 01444 449165. Alternatively, cheque/postal orders should be made payable to Credit Resolution Services and sent to CRS, 2nd Floor, Rockwood House, 9-17 Perrymount Road, Haywards Heath, West Sussex, RH16 3TW.

 

A payment plan can also be set up if you are unable to settle in full, although we do charge a little extra for this.

 

If you are experiencing financial difficulty, there are organisations who offer free debt advice and assistance such as Step Change (0800 1381111), National Debtline (0808 8084000) and your local Citizen Advice Bureau.

 

Please ensure a payment or response is received within the next 7 days, so we can avoid further action being taken.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

David Castle

 

Collections Department

 

Credit Resolution Services and CRS are trading styles of Harlands Services Ltd. Registered Office: : 2nd Floor, Rockwood House, 9 - 17 Perrymount Road, Haywards Heath RH16 3TW. Company Registration No. 2982925. Consumer Credit License No. 526513. VAT Registration No. 799 7113 70.

Authorised and Regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority for accounts formed under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (amended 2006).

IMPORTANT

This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee, is strictly confidential and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee please do not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any attachments. Instead, please e-mail it back to the sender and then immediately permanently delete it. Although efforts will have been made to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment(s) are free from software viruses you should yourself ensure that they are in fact virus-free. Please note that Harlands Services Ltd does not accept any responsibility for any loss caused by software viruses.

 

On 01/07/2015 20:30,

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your email and numerous letters recently about my GymEtc Membership 3234.

 

I have been unable to deal with this recently due to other pressing personal matters. The steady stream of correspondence from CRS has been an unwanted distraction at a time when it was least needed.

 

If you continue with these lengthy intimidatory letters, I will make a formal complaint to the OFT without further warning.

 

Please note I will not be paying any administration charges because, despite what you suggest, they are penalty charges.

 

To enable me to properly consider your demands, please send me a copy of the membership agreement which I agreed to along with the related terms and conditions.

 

Yours faithfully,

xx

On 20 May 2015, at 09:25, Credit Resolution Services wrote:

Dear Mrs xx

 

Re: CRS Ref No: 8275081 / GymEtc Ref No: 3234

 

Further to our previous correspondence, we apologise for the delay in our response. We have contacted Gym Etc regarding the cheque payment you allege to have made and have been advised that:

 

"Thank you for your email.

We do not accept cash or cheque for membership payments.

This is untrue."

 

Please advise us what has lead to you to believe that our fees are unlawful and unenforceable? To be clear, the addition of these charges in such circumstances is stipulated in the terms of your agreement. It is our position, based upon legal advice, that our charges are lawful and in line with all relevant guidance.

 

For the above reasons it must remain our position that the balance of £307.25 is correct and the arrears of £219.29 are due. Purely as a goodwill gesture we shall be willing to accept the reduced sum of £242.42 as final settlement of this debt if paid in full within 7 days of this correspondence. Payment can be made by Credit/Debit card by calling us on 01444 449165. Alternatively, cheque/postal orders should be made payable to Credit Resolution Services and sent to CRS, 2nd Floor, Rockwood House, 9-17 Perrymount Road, Haywards Heath, West Sussex, RH16 3TW.

 

A payment plan can also be set up if you are unable to settle in full, although we do charge a little extra for this.

 

If you are experiencing financial difficulty, there are organisations who offer free debt advice and assistance such as Step Change (0800 1381111), National Debtline (0808 8084000) and your local Citizen Advice Bureau.

 

Please ensure a payment or response is received within the next 7 days, so we can avoid further action being taken.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

David Castle

 

Collections Department

 

Credit Resolution Services and CRS are trading styles of Harlands Services Ltd. Regis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive sent this over to Slick who are good at these. You sent it by cheque? Who to?

 

Well regardless of the matter, these costs are over the top.

The empty threats of court arr somewhat rather unsettling yes, but they are hot air.

And even so, bet you still have proof you sent the cheque yes?

 

How many charges have they placed ontop? Also they will be regulated. CRS and Harlands are one of the same. I walked past their offices the other days, some of the people they have haha...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the quick response, I only have a copy of the letter the cheque has not been claimed and I haven't cancelled it in case they did have it, so no evidence really of the cheque.

 

They have placed around £150 of charges now that I can see I will have to ask for another breakdown. I am not sure what step to take next

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well they are correct in that the OFT have not been in existence for some while now and if they aren't regulated by the FCA, who are they regulated by ?

 

I am sure that slick will be able to advise when he sees fkofilee's alert.

 

Meanwhile you might want to have a look at similar threads as you are certainly not alone in having come up against this company !


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arh no surprise there. The charges are technically unlawful, but not illegal. They are unfair as they do not represent the cost of the actual amount to process the payment.

(These are penalty fees under the OFT's guidance on which the FCA uses quite a lot of)

 

"It is no obstacle to the sum stipulated being a genuine pre-estimate of damage, that the consequences of the breach are such as to make precise pre-estimation almost an impossibility. On the contrary, that is just the situation when it is probable that pre-estimated damage was the true bargain between the parties ( Clydebank Case, Lord Halsbury; Webster v. Bosanquet, Lord Mersey)."

 

The above applies to the cost of £25.00 applied in line with clause 6 of the terms of this agreement, which you have agreed to be bound by, and states that "If you fail to pay any monies due under this agreement or if any Direct Debit is returned unpaid or any cheque is returned unpaid or if any other form of payment is not honoured for whatever reason, you shall pay us on demand an administration fee of £25 (which we require to cover our costs of seeking to pursue such payment from you)."

 

£25.00 is the amount deemed by Harlands' directors as representative of their average costs in dealing with the administration involved with a missed or returned payment. When they submit for a payment by Direct Debit which is then returned, they are charged by the bank. This amount does not amount to £25.00, however, and we concede that the cost of the paper, envelope and franking of the default letters does not make up the entirety of the rest of the sum, however, as a business they have to pay overheads for staff wages, whose employment would not otherwise be required if it were not for the missed or returned payments and furthermore pay overheads for office space and increased usage of utilities, equipment, furniture and stationery to accommodate these staff and the processes involved with the administration involved with missed or returned payments, costing hundreds of thousands of pounds every year. It is our position, therefore, that all of these costs are incurred as a direct result of a breach of contract by those who default on their agreements, which, in this instance, is you. Penalty Fees here. Regardless, they cannot use this excuse to furnish up charging a penalty fee to this extent, cleverly worded but dont let it fool you.

 

The above precedent also applies to the to our own collection fees, which are applied at the outset of debt recovery action to cover all expected costs associated with that action. This is in line with clause 8 of your agreement, which states:

 

"If you fail to pay any amount due under this agreement for a period of more than thirty days, then we may pass the debt to a third party company for collection. The reasonable and direct costs incurred in employing the third party company will be borne by you including costs in tracing you if you have changed your address without telling us."

They cannot add collection fees, these are not allowed. They also mention that they are not regulated by the FCA... For Debt Collection activities, they have to be

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Goingup and welcome to CAG,

 

Try not to worry about Harlands/CRS - they say an awful lot but they can actually do very little. They love to write big letters which can look intimidating but, on closer scrutiny, lack substance.

 

I suggest you cancel the cheque immediately via your bank if you're certain it has not been presented and paid.

 

I think you've left yourself open to criticism by not following taking action when the cheque was not presented for payment. With the cheque not presented and no proof of posting or receipt for the letter, your case is not so strong.

 

However, I think the fastest way to get closure is to offer to pay Harlands the 6 months which you owe but refuse to pay any more for their admin fees.

 

If you agree, let us know and I'll draft a quick letter to Harlands.

 

In the meantime, do not contact Harlands/CRS at all. They can wait !

 

:-)


We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for getting back to me quick, I am more than happy to pay the amounts that I owe I have checked my Bank and I made a Debit Card Payment in August for the first payment and then a further 4 months payments of £21.99.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi GU,

 

If you've paid 5 payments, you should offer Harlands the remaining 7 to end the matter. I would write a proper letter (not email) as follows :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I will deal with this matter by written letter only.

 

I refer recent demands from Harlands/CRS about my membership with Gymetc.

 

Without going into unnecessary detail at this stage, I am confident that your admin charges are unlawful penalties. I therefore have the right to end the gym agreement immediately due to your failure to treat me fairly.

 

However, I am prepared to offer you the remaining 7 monthly payments to end our dispute.

 

My offer is valid for 14 days from receipt of this letter but I will not pay any of your admin fees.

 

If you fail to confirm acceptance of my offer, in writing within 14 days, my offer will be withdrawn and I will not deal with you further.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Send this to Harlands by RM Signed For delivery so you know when they've received it.

 

:-)


We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Slick132

 

I will send them a letter,

 

I received this email today though

 

Dear Mrs xx

 

Re: CRS Ref No: 8275081 / GymEtc Ref No: 3234

 

We refer to your recent e-mails and are keen to help you resolve this matter as quickly as possible.

 

We note that you say a cheque has been sent to the club. Can you check if this has ever been banked?

 

If it hasn't been banked, we can offer you the following options as a gesture of goodwill:

 

1. We are able to accept a one off payment of £175.92, on the basis that the remainder of your membership would then be cancelled.

 

2. We are able to accept payment of £225.92, which would then allow you access for the remainder of your membership until 1 October 2015, if you wanted to continue using it.

 

Please call us on 01444 449165 if either of these options are acceptable to you.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Rob Avery

 

Collections Manager

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi GU,

 

I assume 7 pay'ts @ £21.99 would come to £153.73, in which case Harlands are seeking more. Maybe admin fees ?

 

I'd send my letter as above but start it like this :-

 

I will deal with this matter by written letter only.

 

I refer recent demands from Harlands/CRS about my membership with Gymetc. I have just seen your email of 9th July but will not pay the amounts you have suggested.

 

Without going into unnecessary detail at this stage, I am confident that your admin charges are unlawful penalties. I therefore have the right to end the gym agreement immediately due to your failure to treat me fairly.

 

Etc ..........

 

:-)


We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok thank you Slick132

 

I think they are trying to charge me for 8 payments but I paid my first one in the gym by card so I am paying for 7 only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi GU,

 

Sounds good to me.

 

Keep us informed ..............

 

:-)


We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Slick

 

Finally had my reply from Harlands but they want me to call them???

 

Dear Mrs

 

Re: CRS Ref No: 8275081 / GymEtc Ref No: 3234

 

We refer to your recent e-mails. The club have confirmed that you made an initial payment by card when you took out the membership, therefore, we can offer you a new settlement.

 

1. We are able to accept a one off payment of £153.93, on the basis that the remainder of your membership would then be cancelled.

 

2. We are able to accept payment of £203.93, which would then allow you access for the remainder of your membership until 1 October 2015, if you wanted to continue using it.

 

Please call us on 01444 449165 if either of these options are acceptable to you.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Rob Avery

 

Collections Manager

 

Credit Resolution Services and CRS are trading styles of Harlands Services Ltd. Registered Office: : 2nd Floor, Rockwood House, 9 - 17 Perrymount Road, Haywards Heath RH16 3TW. Company Registration No. 2982925. VAT Registration No. 799 7113 70.

IMPORTANT

This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee, is strictly confidential and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee please do not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any attachments. Instead, please e-mail it back to the sender and then immediately permanently delete it. Although efforts will have been made to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment(s) are free from software viruses you should yourself ensure that they are in fact virus-free. Please note that Harlands Services Ltd does not accept any responsibility for any loss caused by software viruses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi GU,

 

There's no need to call them just because they say so.

 

However, they are now willing to accept the amount you suggested and NO admin fees, which is a good result.

 

You could call them and pay the £153.93 but they can be slow to answer and keep you on hold.

 

Or you could email them asking for their bank details so you can make a direct transfer payment.

 

Then that should be the end of your dealings with the charming Harlands/CRS. :whoo:

 

:-)


We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...