marston Anglian Water wont accept full payment!

[brassnecked]

Yes definitely worth it

Its a bargaining tool you can use, although a CCJ being involved does make it more tricky.

 

Wonder if Anglican have been reading the thread ^__^

 

Anglian Water along with Southern Water have a track record of gaining CCJ's then making sure the debt is above £600, so they can enforce through the High Court. Marston are acting as HCEO here not bailiff, although both are now classed as EA. High court Enforcement should be banned for sums under £7,500 imho.

 

The problem is if Anglian call off Marston, Marston can chase them for the fees I think.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I would imagine that Anglian are a big client and therefore, marstons may roll over and play dead if told to by their client.

Got to be worth pushing Anglian to call them off and see what happens.

[Coughdrop]

The problem is if Anglian call off Marston, Marston can chase them for the fees I think.

 

I don't think so. The enforcement power would be as dead as the parrot in the Monty Python sketch.

[HCEOs]

I know it's not what you want to hear but the fact is that due to ignoring Marstons you are now lawfully liable for the fees. You don't need me to tell you that you could have avoided this.

 

Pay them the £1,700 you have and make an arrangement for the balance which will be split pro-rata between Anglian Water and Marstons.

 

If you feel the fees charged are incorrect, you can apply for an assessment of their fees in the High Court but you must ensure you are 100% correct or you could face their solicitors costs in defending it.

[kjun]

I work in legal services department of another water company that shall remain nameless and my inkling is that Anglian Water are being cute (and naughty) as they should refer you to Marstons with the writ being in place.

 

 

They have probably seen that nothing has yet been collected and figure that you paying them direct is good result as they payment will not be split.

 

 

An abortive writ fee would be payable by them but they clearly feel this is worth it to get the debt settled and in reality they can withdraw without much fuss and minimal reason as to why so Marstons will be none the wiser as I don't suppose for a minute that they will tell them about your payment.

 

 

This would be a good result for you but you must confirm they are withdrawing the account from Marstons (get it on email or in writing) and when/if that happens the fees die at that point as the abortive writ fee is payable by the Claimant and the HCEO cannot have their cake and eat it so to speak.

[caledfwlch]

Why exactly DO Utility Companies prefer to use HCEO's for personal debt? When dealing with a personally owed debt, then the HCEO has no more powers than an EA.

 

Even the various "Bailiff Porn" shows at the start big up how much more powerful and important and special HCEO's are than EA's but then, when they toddle off to visit a personal debtor, have to admit that in personal debt they have no more powers, like they have with commercial debt.

 

Just seems very odd, unless they hope to trick the debtor into panicking thinking they have more powers, or its to punish the debtor by increasing enforcement fees.

[HCEOs]

Why exactly DO Utility Companies prefer to use HCEO's for personal debt? When dealing with a personally owed debt, then the HCEO has no more powers than an EA.

 

Even the various "Bailiff Porn" shows at the start big up how much more powerful and important and special HCEO's are than EA's but then, when they toddle off to visit a personal debtor, have to admit that in personal debt they have no more powers, like they have with commercial debt.

 

Just seems very odd, unless they hope to trick the debtor into panicking thinking they have more powers, or its to punish the debtor by increasing enforcement fees.

 

The fact is that a normal bailiff company with Certificated EAs cannot enforce a judgment.

 

To do that you have to be either a County Court Bailiff or an HCEO (using a Certificated EA).

 

As the CCB's are pretty much useless it makes absolute financial sense to use an HCEO.

[caledfwlch]

The fact is that a normal bailiff company with Certificated EAs cannot enforce a judgment.

 

To do that you have to be either a County Court Bailiff or an HCEO (using a Certificated EA).

 

As the CCB's are pretty much useless it makes absolute financial sense to use an HCEO.

 

Typical ludicrous British way of doing things, state debts enforced by private contractors, and private debts enforced by state contractors.

 

I wouldn't have thought in powers terms a HCEO is no better than a CCB unless like i say its in hope the debtor doesn't understand and panics.

[kjun]

From my experience (10+years) I would say effectiveness is the only reason.

 

 

The Country Court Bailiff (with the greatest of respect to them doing a tough job) simply do not collect as high a percentage of judgments as a HCE company and will rarely remove goods unless you firstly agree to indemnify their costs.

 

 

Also the cost of a High Court writ is less than a Warrant of Execution in terms of fees payable so that is another reason.

 

 

I agree if dealt with in the ways advised on this site they are bound by basically the same rules except of course in the case of a commercial premises.

 

 

Believe me that many water companies have been and continue to look at alternatives to litigation as it is not in most cases very productive and I would give a good guess that roughly 25% of claims issued result in the judgment being paid in full however it is unfair on customers that do pay their bills not to take some form of action otherwise of course no-one would pay it.

 

 

More recently water companies are using DCA's more and more rather than court action and reporting on credit files as well as Orders to Attend, Third Party Orders and Charging Orders as an alternative to bailiffs.

 

 

Not sure what the answer is really but I believe water is included in council tax in Scotland and non payment of that is clearly a different proposition however not sure how that all works to be honest especially with commercial customers.

[HCEOs]

It's not about power, it's about a financial incentive to recover what's due under the judgment. It won't be long before the CCBs are disbanded and all judgment enforcement is issued through HCEOs. They have long been ineffective and with the new government looking for cuts it makes absolute sense to give all creditors the enforcement service they deserve.

[kjun]

Have to agree with HCEO with that as the HCE companies we use/have used remit vastly more to us as Claimant than the court bailiff and also there is a lot more details provided in the EA's reports too.

 

 

The most you usually get from the court bailiff is a form that says unable to meet defendant or defendant gone away and this for the money you pay for the warrant is not great in all honesty.

 

 

As an example the biggest problem I come across by far is in the case of restaurants or takeaways who have miraculously changed owner between Judgment and Enforcement and in the case of the HCEO they at least will investigate and require documentation to clarify this and the court bailiff simply does not do that.

[brassnecked]

Most pointless CCJ for water that I saw was for a rural property with a borehole and a septic tank, 5 miles from the nearest main, Waterco tried to bill them for supply, were ignored they got a default CCJ, and it was set aside on appeal, as they had no contract with the farmer for supplying his property.

[kjun]

Yep would agree that is pretty pointless especially if no supply to the property, perhaps it was a split area where fresh and wastewater companies are different, as communication between water companies in those circumstances is not always great...

 

 

There is no contact for supply of water services as they are payable (or not) by statute though in the case you detail above if there is no supply then there are of course no charges payable.

[ploddertom]

The County Court Bailiff is a salaried employee of HMCTS and gets paid regardless of what Judgments he collects on or not as the case may be, he has no need to extend himself to produce results. The HCEO & his attending Enforcement Agent only gets paid on results.

[brassnecked]

The private bailiff is therefore on the same crack as a Crapita TVL goon, chasing money for commission in many cases

 

reminds me of an O'Jays song from the 1970's For the Love of Money, the difference being the EA is not able to gain criminal prosecutions on the people they visit, unless they lie to plod and get the debtor done for Obstruction.

 

[Bailiff Advice]

Duplicate

[Bailiff Advice]

It won't be long before the CCBs are disbanded and all judgment enforcement is issued through HCEOs.

 

Careful now HCEO...

 

There are a lot of hoops that you guys need to jump through first to satisfy the advice sector........

[Coughdrop]

I work in legal services department of another water company that shall remain nameless and my inkling is that Anglian Water are being cute (and naughty) as they should refer you to Marstons with the writ being in place.

 

 

They have probably seen that nothing has yet been collected and figure that you paying them direct is good result as they payment will not be split.

 

 

An abortive writ fee would be payable by them but they clearly feel this is worth it to get the debt settled and in reality they can withdraw without much fuss and minimal reason as to why so Marstons will be none the wiser as I don't suppose for a minute that they will tell them about your payment.

 

 

This would be a good result for you but you must confirm they are withdrawing the account from Marstons (get it on email or in writing) and when/if that happens the fees die at that point as the abortive writ fee is payable by the Claimant and the HCEO cannot have their cake and eat it so to speak.

 

Are you saying that at least with the utility company you work for, payments made directly to yourselves as opposed to the EA are NOT passed on to the enforcement company, and thus not split pro rata as per the regs?

[Coughdrop]

The fact is that a normal bailiff company with Certificated EAs cannot enforce a judgment.

 

To do that you have to be either a County Court Bailiff or an HCEO (using a Certificated EA).

 

As the CCB's are pretty much useless it makes absolute financial sense to use an HCEO.

 

Why do say CCB's are useless?

 

Is there something in the pipeline regarding getting rid of them so HCEO's get the work? If so, what?

[outlawla]

Are you saying that at least with the utility company you work for, payments made directly to yourselves as opposed to the EA are NOT passed on to the enforcement company, and thus not split pro rata as per the regs?

 

The enforcement company has not collected any debt in these circumstances. Why would they split payment pro rata?

[Coughdrop]

The enforcement company has not collected any debt in these circumstances. Why would they split payment pro rata?

 

I don't intend getting drawn into this as it's been discussed at length on many different fora. I refer you to the discussions on this site regarding this issue. Whether or not you agree with them is an issue for you.

[outlawla]

...I refer you to the discussions on this site regarding this issue. Whether or not you agree with them is an issue for you.

 

Without any reference to a specific discussion (or post(s)) I can only assume you are referring to the advice regarding paying bailiffs (or engaging with them) that appears to be given from someone with a financial interest in giving that advice.

[Coughdrop]

Without any reference to a specific discussion (or post(s)) I can only assume you are referring to the advice regarding paying bailiffs (or engaging with them) that appears to be given from someone with a financial interest in giving that advice.

 

You are free to assume as you wish. I reiterate I don't intend getting drawn in as this has been discussed at length on many different fora.

[kjun]

Are you saying that at least with the utility company you work for, payments made directly to yourselves as opposed to the EA are NOT passed on to the enforcement company, and thus not split pro rata as per the regs?

 

 

 

Nope in all cases of enforcement that have been referred to the HCE company we would refer them to said company and no payment would be accepted, not even full payment of Judgment.

 

 

What I am saying is that if a payment were to be accepted under those circumstances by the water company then the process of withdrawal is usually no more than an email so the HCEO would be none the wiser as to why it's being recalled.

 

 

Not saying this is what AW are doing but they are certainly wrong if the information by the OP is correct as they should be referring the matter to Marstons end of story.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

If the hceo was aware, then as per the agreement with the client, a % invoice would probably be raised.

If the hceo was not aware and enforcement withdrawn, only a limit abortive fee would be raised.

There is nothing to stop the hceo being informed that payment direct had been made and they are to continue to enforce for their fees and probably interest and transfer fees too.