Order for Sale - How likely granted

[walmsley7274]

Good Evening,

 

I have received some great advice here that has led to me successfully suspending a repossession hearing nearly being out of arrears (3 months to go) with my mortgage, council tax arrears and other debts which I am very proud of, however, I need some further help.

 

I had a charging order placed on my property back in 2012 from Anglian water, the original debt was £2095 but has since risen to approx. £5000 I am told. I was contacted in April 2015 by Solicitors acting on behalf of Anglian Water stating that they are going to apply for a order of sale hearing as I was unable or unwilling to pay this debt.

 

Now this is my fault as I haven't heard from anyone regarding this since the charging order was put into place, I had assumed that the charging order would stay on until I sold my property and I know this was a mistake.

 

I have been communicating with the Solicitors since April and have provided my income and expenditure sheet numerous times, provided a breakdown of all monies owed on the property which demonstrates that they property is in negative equity. If the house was sold I think I would cover my first mortgage but the secured loan (5 years to go) a second charging order and this charging order wouldn't be paid. I know this as valuation was done on the property for the suspension of the repossession hearing. I have advised them of this.

 

After many emails since April to the solicitor asking for account number and sort code to start paying my offer at £37 a month until my other court ordered debts are paid they finally provided details and I have made the payment.

 

However, the solicitors say they will not consider my offer until I have completed a form. This forms asks for details such as,

 

- all bank account sort codes and numbers including money amounts it in, (they have no money in them other than for bills, but I don't have an overdraft:smile:)

- itemised list of all my possessions within the property (such as sofa, dining table, fridges, mobile phones, fridge etc)

- my employment details and contact numbers,

- my national insurance number,

- the names and dates of birth of my children.

 

I have asked them what they will do with this information and they send a standard response of "our client will not consider your offer until you complete the form, please take legal advice". In fact in the last email the solicitor 'told me off' for sending so many emails, that I shouldn't address her by name and I was using delaying tactics. I promise I am not, I have sent correspondence to them as soon as I received this letter in April. I just wish they would go one way or another.

 

I have currently declined to give them this information, my income and expenditure information was very detailed and the same which I provided to the courts, I have provided a very detailed breakdown of monies owed on the property also and made the first payment now I have the payment details and reference number.

 

The reason I have declined is because at the height of putting my head in the sand, one company I owed money to took money straight from my bank account by order of the court. I am now told that was unusual but it happened and I live on a tight enough budget (which has been working and I am reducing my debts) without this happening. I don't want to miss a payment to anyone. Also I am worried by itemising my possessions this would allow bailiffs to come into my property and my 13 year old is often here alone. I have advised the solicitors of my concerns about providing this information and I haven't received a response other than "your questions are delaying tactics please provide the information requested"

 

My situation is I am a single parent, to two children 13 and 10 (which I have advised the solicitors), both my ex partner and myself are liable for the mortgage but my ex partner is only listed as having a interest in the property due to how it was set up with the right to buy.

 

I think my question is how likely is the company to gain an order for sale, I haven't received any paperwork yet other than emails saying 'my client is continuing the action' although I am expecting this very soon as they set a deadline for this form last Friday.

 

I have worked so hard to reduce my debts especially my mortgage which hopefully proves I now have a good track record for sticking to all my agreements. This is my childrens home and has been for 13 years, their school is nearby and childminder as well as my work and they wouldn't gain anything from selling the property?

 

After a long winded post, any advice as always would be appreciated.

[caro]

What a bloddy cheek!! That is scandalous asking for such personal information, especially regarding your children. How dare they? Who is this asking?

 

Is the debt in your name only?

[walmsley7274]

Hi - Thank you for replying so late.

 

It is John Barkers solicitors asking for it. Is is a five page document asking for lots of information and I didn't feel comfortable sending it.

 

Yes the debt is only in my name, however, my ex is only a interested party in the property, I think therefore it is a true charge on the property.

 

Many Thanks

[RMS]

Yes the debt is only in my name, however, my ex is only a interested party in the property, I think therefore it is a true charge on the property.

 

Many Thanks

 

Hi,

 

I'm just a forum member, so take what I say with a pinch of salt and wait for a site member to give you a proper response.

 

Is the mortgage in joint names, because I think it makes a difference. There's a very, very long thread on MSE about this.

 

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1839539

 

Also just for my own inquisitiveness, are you saying that the debt has increased since you got the charging order, or was that all extra charges before they put the charging order on? If it has increased since the CO, do you get some sort of notification or did you just find out when the solicitors contacted you?

[walmsley7274]

Hi

 

Yes the mortgage is in both names, when we bought the property from the council "right to buy" my partner wasn't on the tenancy so could only be listed as a registered party. The secured loan is in both names but selling the property wouldn't covered all this I don't think.

 

Yes the debt has increased since the charging order, I am assuming that it is because of the interest, however, I have asked for a breakdown of the new figure as it is different from the amount on the charging order and I don't get a reply apart from "please complete the form etc etc etc" or "you are using delaying tactics".

 

I didn't find out about the increase until the solicitors contacted me in April to tell me they were applying for an order of sale.

[caro]

I'm not surprised you aren't comfortable giving them all that info. It's none of their business. Only a court can ask for personal information and I've only heard of them asking for an i&e.

 

I was asking about your ex to see if he had an interest in the property as that would make a difference.

 

Before you agree to anything you need a breakdown to see how a debt for water can increase by £3k in 3 years. I see you have asked for this. I think you may need to do a CPR request but will try and get more informed advicev for you.

 

Have you been paying anything to the water co?

[dx100uk]

go get a copy of the original ccj and the charging order from the court.

 

 

me thinks this lot are pulling your plonker and trying to make money out of you.

[walmsley7274]

Hi

 

I have been paying a normal water bill but initially nothing towards this debt. I have now made the first payment of my offer of instalments and told them I will make the other payments on the 1st of the month, however it took 4 letters to even get the sort code and account details to do this as they insisted I should have this information. I didn't I doubled checked everything.

 

I have a copy of the original CCJ and charging order and have also downloaded a copy of the land registry documents as I needed this to write back to them. So i know the original figure is correct but I don't know where the other figure stated by the solicitor has come from. I asked for this information a week ago and have had no response from them since they stated "You should obtain legal advice".

 

I have been very timely responding to their correspondence from the start in April, however, on numerous occasions I have had to chase to follow things up, ask what was happening and the response is always the same.

[caro]

Does the CCJ say anything about them being awarded interest and costs?

 

If not I suggest that you write and tell them that you will make payments as you've already agreed up to the amount of the CCJ, and if they believe more is owed you will require evidence of this. If they wish to take you to court, then you will produce copies of all documentation proving that you have tried to resolve the matter and that they have failed to co-operate and are wasting court time.

 

I would be amazed if they get an order for sale.

[fkofilee]

Why not scan up there so called "I+E"

If that was given to a judge, they would have a [removed] field day with it!

Edited July 6, 2015 by dx100uk
please stop this on your posts - there is no need for it - dx

[AndyOrch]

The form is standard in gathering information...in view of the judgment creditors options on how to execute further if no payment arrangement put in place.There is no legal requirement for you to respond.

 

Look at the list...it breaks down into using Bailiffs (house contents)

Bank details (third party debt order)

Employment (Attachment of Earnings)

Children (Order for sale of property) unless children are under a certain age.

 

I would be seeking clarification and concentrating on why the judgement amount has almost doubled as Judgments for less than 5k are exempt from PJI except for section 69 8%

 

Regards

 

Andy

[walmsley7274]

Hi

 

I have looked at the judgment at all it says is the amount with "any further interest due". I still haven't had a response on the breakdown of the figures of how it has increased so much.

 

Yes thats exactly what the form does breaks down into those categories, I have given a detailed income and expenditure form to them, and given them the outstanding balance information on all the liability information for the house that the mortgage people gave me. It just made me nervous giving them all the additional information as I didn't know what they would do with it. I have never received one of those before, should I complete it and return it to them tomorrow then?

 

Would it make a difference in the hearing that I wouldn't complete it unless they could tell me what they would do with the information? I did it for genuine reasons not to be difficult I supplied other information in a different way and have made the first payment.

 

Also I am due to go away on monday for ten days its been booked for about a year and I'm worried that an order for sale will be made while i'm away - I can't cancel as I would loose too much money, is there anything I can do?

 

Many thanks for all your help.

[walmsley7274]

Sorry just to clarify I have also told them my circumstances several times that I am a single parent and I have children and there ages.

 

It was more my bank account information, employment details and property within the house I was concerned with due to previous problems which had a huge impact on me and my children. I have also explained this to them.

 

Thank you again.

[AndyOrch]

If you have started payments...then there is no need to do anything further...or any need for hearings.

 

Have a good holiday.

 

Andy

[caro]

Agree with andy. Have a good holiday safe in the knowledge that you've done all you need to sort this out.

[walmsley7274]

Agree with andy. Have a good holiday safe in the knowledge that you've done all you need to sort this out.

 

Hi again

 

Since my last message I have been communicating directly with Anglian water and as they also asked me to put my income and expenditure to them and haven't heard anything from the solicitors until today when I received this by email

 

"Further to previous correspondence on the matter we are extremely disappointed to note that you have failed to provide full and frank disclosure of your assets and liabilities, income and expenditure and therefore as repeatedly advised our client is unable to consider your offer of repayment.

 

We cannot impress upon you the severity of the matter and write to give you notice that unless we hear from you with full payment of £4,665.02 by 4pm on 20th July 2015, our clients claim for Order for Sale will be issued at Court.

 

This may incur further costs in the region of £1,300.00 to £1,700.00 which you may be liable to pay. It is therefore in your interest to contact us immediately to discuss settlement of your account"

 

I am out of the country now until the 27th and only sporadically receiving email. I have put my out of office on which advises people I'm not back until then.

 

They keep giving me deadlines despite the information I have given and paid the first instalment.

 

I'm a little worried will a order for sale hearing happen whilst I am away ?

 

I haven't emailed back as I can't give them the information they want anyhow.

 

Could someone give me some advice please ?

 

Many thanks

[AndyOrch]

Referring back to the Judgment.....I would assume that judgment was forthwith ? I think it may be prudent to submit a N245 through the court to get your payment arrangement set in stone.

 

The fee is £55.

 

This will officially set the payment as monthly and run from the date it is processed.Offer £37 pm as already paid to AW.You only pay the the debt amount that is on the Judgment.

 

Any attempt to force sale will fail if there are no arrears on the payment agreement (from the date it is processed) any attempt of forced sale would fail as you have children residing and the actual amount being executed being disproportionate to the action being threatened by this Solicitor....incredible!!!

 

Regards

 

Andy

[citizenB]

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n245-eng.pdf

 

You can download the form N245 from the link above. #

 

https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt/if-you-do-owe-the-money-pay-the-judgment

 

Or from this one. There is also other information that might be useful.

[walmsley7274]

I'm out of the country at the moment so I can't file any forms I'm not back until the 27th.

 

If the solicitor files the forms on the 20th how quickly will they get a hearing ?

 

I'll go straight to the court on the 27th and do this but now I fear it maybe too late??

[AndyOrch]

I would drop Ebeneezer an email and state that you are in the process of filing an N245 with the court......for the agreed amount already being paid to AW.

All copies of their correspondence and undue pressurising will be brought to the courts attention.

 

Make it known that you are away until said date and unable to respond by by 4pm on 20th July 2015.

 

Any application for Order of Sale will be defended.