How bad is "The Work Programme" and does it ever help?

[jasta11]

Your first meeting seems to have gone quite well - no doubt your adviser is now aware that you're clued up and not afraid to speak your mind (and presumably will report any dodgy stuff) so they'll tread more warily with you.

 

Even if they call you in a lot at first I'm sure it will wear off after a while and with luck you'll only have to attend every so often. Make sure you always show them that you're already doing as much as possible and you therefore don't need them holding your hand all the time.

 

Also, when you're called in.. get your expenses! They have to pay them so don't accept any excuses; they call you in then they have to pay. Look on it as a free shopping trip into town.

 

If they ask you to come in and it clashes with any appointments at the Jobcentre, always attend the Jobcentre as they have priority, not the WP.

[sillygirl1]

As I keep saying on these threads the Work Programme should ONLY be for people who have ZERO work experience - end of.

 

That way they can do more for the alleged work shy and give them the skills they need rather than antagonise already highly skilled people.

[tfp]

Sillygirl1, I'm not sure they're even geared up to perform at that level. Many (though by no means all) of the staff are poorly motivated and poorly trained themselves. For example we all know or have heard tales of jobseekers attending these providers and coming away with a CV much worse than their original copy. Someone with nil work experience could end up with a CV that helps keep them in the very same position.

[Chester6]

The WP providers have calculated the best way to make profits is to focus on the recently unemployed and they get everyone else into pointless courses or learn direct and forced labour

People with little or no work experience such as recent school or education leavers are the worst for profit

[Belfaster]

Sillygirl1, I'm not sure they're even geared up to perform at that level. Many (though by no means all) of the staff are poorly motivated and poorly trained themselves. For example we all know or have heard tales of jobseekers attending these providers and coming away with a CV much worse than their original copy. Someone with nil work experience could end up with a CV that helps keep them in the very same position.

 

Exactly. I remember the "coach" I had at Seetec, her words "you don't have to apply for jobs, but you must do job search activities". I never attended the WP after that. By the way, I was on and still am on ESA. I think poorly trained is an understatement!

[Fragil1ty]

Another thing that I noticed when I was there, was that she kept referring to me as "mate", she was an elderly woman, I'd say she was in her late 40's, maybe early 50's and the majority of the time that she would say something to me, for example:

 

Me: "I actually love working, I like the social interaction, etc etc"

Her: "Yeah mate, I know what you mean".

 

It just felt really.. condescending to me, as if she's trying to appeal to me on a more friend type basis, the strange thing is, I was polite when I needed to be, I didn't call her any of the slang we used today, dude, man, mate, what have you, but yeah, that's another thing I just remembered.

 

I got an e-mail at 4pm asking if I can come in for an interview for a new position that my advisor has put me for, I wouldn't have minded but it was literally tomorrow, I mean, contacting me last minute for an interview? I told her I can't do it tomorrow, as I've got my sign on date and I'm unavailable until Friday to which she obliged too.

 

Furthermore, in the initial e-mail she stated that I would need to attend in formal clothing (suit/shirt/tie etc), to which I replied that I simply do not have any work clothes any more, as my previous ones are now too small. (dem gym gains tho), so I would need some kind of help/assistance there to help me out with some new clothing and she replied with the following:

 

"Hi Bronson

 

That’s fine are you happy for me to send your CV to the employer? If you are successful at gaining an interview we can sort your interview clothes out

 

Thanks"

So first it was I've got to come down to the WP building and do a preliminary interview, but then as soon as I mentioned that I would need clothing, it was, "oh, well we'll see if you're successful in actually getting an interview first", lol.

 

These people man, good grief.

Edited July 21, 2015 by honeybee13

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Fragility,

 

 

In your last post you quoted a response from your WP adviser. May be prudent to remove names by which you may be identified by any 'Official' snoops.

[Mr.P]

Her: "Yeah mate, I know what you mean".

 

The last time I was addressed as mate, I responded with: "Don't so damned impertinent. It is Sir to you !"

[Fragil1ty]

Fragility,

 

 

In your last post you quoted a response from your WP adviser. May be prudent to remove names by which you may be identified by any 'Official' snoops.

 

Fixed, thank you my friend!

[jasta11]

I got an e-mail at 4pm asking if I can come in for an interview for a new position that my advisor has put me for, I wouldn't have minded but it was literally tomorrow, I mean, contacting me last minute for an interview? I told her I can't do it tomorrow, as I've got my sign on date and I'm unavailable until Friday to which she obliged too.

 

You can tell her that, according to Work Program Guidance Chapter 3A, the use of electronic methods - which includes email - is NOT allowed when making mandatory appointments and if it happens again you'll report them. They can send an email or text as a reminder for an existing appointment but not to actually make a mandatory, formal appointment. That must always be done in writing, on paper and either posted to you in good time (at least 2 working days notice) or handed to you in person.

 

The WP is notorious for breaking this particular guideline and they need stamped on the first time they do it or they'll keep on doing it.

 

Having said all that, as it's in connection with a definite vacancy then you'd best turn up, so they don't get the chance to claim you 'avoided a work opportunity'. But insist on proper methods of communication in the future. If they don't know the guidance then it's up to you to 'educate' them

[estellyn]

Another thing that I noticed when I was there, was that she kept referring to me as "mate", she was an elderly woman, I'd say she was in her late 40's, maybe early 50's and the majority of the time that she would say something to me, for example:

 

Me: "I actually love working, I like the social interaction, etc etc"

Her: "Yeah mate, I know what you mean".

 

It just felt really.. condescending to me, as if she's trying to appeal to me on a more friend type basis, the strange thing is, I was polite when I needed to be, I didn't call her any of the slang we used today, dude, man, mate, what have you, but yeah, that's another thing I just remembered.

 

I got an e-mail at 4pm asking if I can come in for an interview for a new position that my advisor has put me for, I wouldn't have minded but it was literally tomorrow, I mean, contacting me last minute for an interview? I told her I can't do it tomorrow, as I've got my sign on date and I'm unavailable until Friday to which she obliged too.

 

Furthermore, in the initial e-mail she stated that I would need to attend in formal clothing (suit/shirt/tie etc), to which I replied that I simply do not have any work clothes any more, as my previous ones are now too small. (dem gym gains tho), so I would need some kind of help/assistance there to help me out with some new clothing and she replied with the following:

 

So first it was I've got to come down to the WP building and do a preliminary interview, but then as soon as I mentioned that I would need clothing, it was, "oh, well we'll see if you're successful in actually getting an interview first", lol.

 

These people man, good grief.

 

I agree with everything except for referring to a woman in her late 40's early 50's as elderly. I'm not quite that age yet, but close enough to wince at that description!

[honeybee13]

I agree with everything except for referring to a woman in her late 40's early 50's as elderly. I'm not quite that age yet, but close enough to wince at that description!

 

I thought the same, Estellyn.

 

HB

[sillygirl1]

I'm late fifties and certainly not 'elderly'- age is relative.

 

I would go to anything they ask, and make a point of giving them as much feedback as you can as to the 'usefuleness' of their intervention. Copy in your local jobcentre and your local MP for good measure.

[Fragil1ty]

You can tell her that, according to Work Program Guidance Chapter 3A, the use of electronic methods - which includes email - is NOT allowed when making mandatory appointments and if it happens again you'll report them. They can send an email or text as a reminder for an existing appointment but not to actually make a mandatory, formal appointment. That must always be done in writing, on paper and either posted to you in good time (at least 2 working days notice) or handed to you in person.

 

The WP is notorious for breaking this particular guideline and they need stamped on the first time they do it or they'll keep on doing it.

 

Having said all that, as it's in connection with a definite vacancy then you'd best turn up, so they don't get the chance to claim you 'avoided a work opportunity'. But insist on proper methods of communication in the future. If they don't know the guidance then it's up to you to 'educate' them

 

I might just do this to be honest.

 

I have been asked to send over a copy of my CV in a word format today, I knew it was a bad idea putting my e-mail on top of my CV and handing it over to her, lol. My bad.

 

But she does have it in PDF format and that's all I'm going to be giving her, I know full well that if I hand over my CV in Word Document, she'll try and make changes with or without my permission, so yeah, I don't think I'll be sending that over any time soon.

[Mr.P]

I have been asked to send over a copy of my CV in a word format today, I knew it was a bad idea putting my e-mail on top of my CV and handing it over to her, lol. My bad.

 

Just say No and be done with it. If she presses the issue, tell her that you don't do word or invite her to consult a dictionary.

[Fragil1ty]

Just say No and be done with it. If she presses the issue, tell her that you don't do word or invite her to consult a dictionary.

 

I was considering sending something over with the following:

 

"Hi ,

 

I've decided against sending over my word copy in an attempt to avoid any changes (un-wanted changes more than anything) to my CV with or without my permission. You have my .PDF version of the CV and by my standard that is more than enough, most computers and definitely most browsers have built in .PDF readers, so it shouldn't be a problem for you or for anyone else with a modern-day computer to read the CV.

 

Kind Regards,

"

 

Does this sound decent enough?

[tfp]

I was considering sending something over with the following:

 

"Hi ,

 

I've decided against sending over my word copy in an attempt to avoid any changes (un-wanted changes more than anything) to my CV with or without my permission. You have my .PDF version of the CV and by my standard that is more than enough, most computers and definitely most browsers have built in .PDF readers, so it shouldn't be a problem for you or for anyone else with a modern-day computer to read the CV.

 

Kind Regards,

"

 

Does this sound decent enough?

 

 

I had exactly the same issue. I wont type it all again as I have done so on a couple of other threads. Suffice to say, I had a useless Ingeus adviser who wanted a copy of my CV. I said I'd hand it to her (on my USB flash drive) on our next meeting. As she was wholly incompetent and I did not trust her as far as I could throw a dozen of her, I created my CV in Adobe InDesign and saved it in Adobe Acrobat Pro making sure I added security features such as disabling printing and cut 'n paste. It was rather amusing seeing her trying to print. She assumed the office laser printer was playing up! )

 

 

When she asked for my CV in Word format, I asked why as PDF was a perfectly accepted standard. It was because she wanted to 'tweak' my CV to send out to various employers. I flatly refused. Her response was "DO WOT YOU WANT THEN".

[Mr.P]

Too long. I'd suggest keeping it short and to the point:

You already have a PDF copy of my CV. If you are having trouble reading it, I suggest you consult your technical support department or ask your manager for further training.

[caledfwlch]

I had exactly the same issue. I wont type it all again as I have done so on a couple of other threads. Suffice to say, I had a useless Ingeus adviser who wanted a copy of my CV. I said I'd hand it to her (on my USB flash drive) on our next meeting. As she was wholly incompetent and I did not trust her as far as I could throw a dozen of her, I created my CV in Adobe InDesign and saved it in Adobe Acrobat Pro making sure I added security features such as disabling printing and cut 'n paste. It was rather amusing seeing her trying to print. She assumed the office laser printer was playing up! )

 

 

When she asked for my CV in Word format, I asked why as PDF was a perfectly accepted standard. It was because she wanted to 'tweak' my CV to send out to various employers. I flatly refused. Her response was "DO WOT YOU WANT THEN".

 

I refused to sign the CV waiver form in the first place. I used to be a graphic designer, and as part of my job would design CV's, so my CV is extremely professional looking, and in the digital form of a heavily edited word document, full of customised styles & layout template etc, a layout that would usually be well beyond the skills and ability of someone who wasnt a highly experienced Word user, and certainly beyond the skillset of the sort of people the likes of Working Links etc employ.

 

Having seen a paper copy, and knowing it was from the above, they were absolutely desperate for an editable digital copy, even to the point of unlawfully threatening sanctions, and it was clear that they didn't want it to send to employers on my behalf, or to alter the wording on my behalf, but to use it as a template they could use to create CV's for all their other "customers"

 

They were even less amused when I offered to sell them a template for a couple hundred quid

[Fragil1ty]

Too long. I'd suggest keeping it short and to the point:

 

This made me LOL irl, oh my days. Wouldn't sending this cause more problems? but then again I started to think to myself, if they're going to make my time there awkward and difficult, then why wouldn't I go ahead and do the exact same thing?

 

I refused to sign the CV waiver form in the first place. I used to be a graphic designer, and as part of my job would design CV's, so my CV is extremely professional looking, and in the digital form of a heavily edited word document, full of customised styles & layout template etc, a layout that would usually be well beyond the skills and ability of someone who wasnt a highly experienced Word user, and certainly beyond the skillset of the sort of people the likes of Working Links etc employ.

 

Having seen a paper copy, and knowing it was from the above, they were absolutely desperate for an editable digital copy, even to the point of unlawfully threatening sanctions, and it was clear that they didn't want it to send to employers on my behalf, or to alter the wording on my behalf, but to use it as a template they could use to create CV's for all their other "customers"

 

They were even less amused when I offered to sell them a template for a couple hundred quid

 

Haha, this is amazing, they're so incompetent it's unreal. This gave me a good laugh though.

[Mr.P]

They were even less amused when I offered to sell them a template for a couple hundred quid

 

A couple of hundred is selling yourself cheap. They would want to claim copyright along with any intellectual property rights and certainly wouldn't give you any credit. A three figure price would be a more realistic starting point, and each time they quibble, it goes up.

 

This made me LOL irl, oh my days. Wouldn't sending this cause more problems? but then again I started to think to myself, if they're going to make my time there awkward and difficult, then why wouldn't I go ahead and do the exact same thing?

 

They are not there to be nice or help. Their only goal is to get you off benefits in any way they can. As you have already found out, respect is way down on their list and they will take any opportunity to have a dig.

[Fragil1ty]

A couple of hundred is selling yourself cheap. They would want to claim copyright along with any intellectual property rights and certainly wouldn't give you any credit. A three figure price would be a more realistic starting point, and each time they quibble, it goes up.

 

 

 

They are not there to be nice or help. Their only goal is to get you off benefits in any way they can. As you have already found out, respect is way down on their list and they will take any opportunity to have a dig.

 

Yeah that's true.

 

Is everyone who is on the WP forced to come into their offices and do active job searches on their computers as well as job searches at home via: Universal Job Match?

[antone]

Yeah that's true.

 

Is everyone who is on the WP forced to come into their offices and do active job searches on their computers as well as job searches at home via: Universal Job Match?

 

I don't know about everyone, but it's certainly very common. Presumably they know that for someone who knows their way around a computer and has one at home it won't actually help them, but they can't do nothing at all or they won't be able to claim the credit when you find yourself a job.

[Fragil1ty]

Right okay, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't only me and was actually a traditional practice that they force into place.

[Mr.P]

Presumably they know that for someone who knows their way around a computer and has one at home it won't actually help them, but they can't do nothing at all or they won't be able to claim the credit when you find yourself a job.

 

If you find yourself in this situation, you have the right to challenge the "activity" on the grounds that you are better equipped to complete the task from home. Point to raise are:

 

• Unfettered access to the internet (Work Programme providers invariably restrict the sites you can use)
  
• Templates for covering letters and CVs are stored on secure media at home which can not be accessed from a WP computer.
  
• A home environment is quieter, safer, and free from distractions.
  
• No travel costs involved in performing the task from home.