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Repossession and standing outside bank!

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Long story, I try to keep it brief...

 

Around 2007, I took a mortgage with HBOS.

HBOS made error on my bank account which resulted in around 6 months mortgage arrears.

I did not know about the arrears until a few days before repossession.

Because of bank error, the funds were there to clear the arrears.

I cleared the arrears. I also paid extra to put account in credit.

House was repossessed despite me being told that clearing the arrears in full would stop repossession.

 

Since repossession, I have sent HBOS a number of complaint letters which were stamped by local branch to act as a receipt. All complaint letters were unanswered.

 

I've taken advice from a police sergeant - the advice was both as a friend and as a policeman, explaining how I can stand outside the bank giving out leaflets to passers by showing the facts of my complaint.

 

I have been working 18 hour shifts the last few months but now have a lot of time off to concentrate my effort in HBOS and I have no hesitation in standing outside their branch giving out my leaflets!

 

I have informed HBOS press office of my intentions as well as giving them 2 weeks to answer any one of my complaints during the last 10 years.

 

I know that there is a time limit of 12? years to bring a claim against a mortgage.

 

Should I do as planned and stand outside their bank in the hope that it will shame them in answering my complaint? Or perhaps a more conventional method? Apparently I cant complaint to FOS since the mortgage was not regulated.

 

The only choice I see I have is to either stand outside their bank after the 2 week period, or perhaps some other method to get them to answer my complaint, but, I do not know what?

 

Local newspaper said it will attend bank with photographer, if we are forced to stand outside the bank!

 

Apart from losing the deposit I paid for the house £16,000, my other financial losses are that the house was sold far far below its market value by around £40,000

 

Working 18 hour shifts a day is tiring, but I now have some holidays :) I don't want to waste my holidays standing outside a stupid bank, but do not see any other alternative to get them to answer my complaints unless someone can suggest something?

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Long story, I try to keep it brief...

 

Around 2007, I took a mortgage with HBOS.

HBOS made error on my bank account which resulted in around 6 months mortgage arrears.

I did not know about the arrears until a few days before repossession.

Because of bank error, the funds were there to clear the arrears.

I cleared the arrears. I also paid extra to put account in credit.

House was repossessed despite me being told that clearing the arrears in full would stop repossession.

 

Since repossession, I have sent HBOS a number of complaint letters which were stamped by local branch to act as a receipt. All complaint letters were unanswered.

 

I've taken advice from a police sergeant - the advice was both as a friend and as a policeman, explaining how I can stand outside the bank giving out leaflets to passers by showing the facts of my complaint.

 

I have been working 18 hour shifts the last few months but now have a lot of time off to concentrate my effort in HBOS and I have no hesitation in standing outside their branch giving out my leaflets!

 

I have informed HBOS press office of my intentions as well as giving them 2 weeks to answer any one of my complaints during the last 10 years.

 

I know that there is a time limit of 12? years to bring a claim against a mortgage.

 

Should I do as planned and stand outside their bank in the hope that it will shame them in answering my complaint? Or perhaps a more conventional method? Apparently I cant complaint to FOS since the mortgage was not regulated.

 

The only choice I see I have is to either stand outside their bank after the 2 week period, or perhaps some other method to get them to answer my complaint, but, I do not know what?

 

Local newspaper said it will attend bank with photographer, if we are forced to stand outside the bank!

 

Apart from losing the deposit I paid for the house £16,000, my other financial losses are that the house was sold far far below its market value by around £40,000

 

Working 18 hour shifts a day is tiring, but I now have some holidays :) I don't want to waste my holidays standing outside a stupid bank, but do not see any other alternative to get them to answer my complaints unless someone can suggest something?

 

Did you oppose the repossession in court?

I suspect HBOS's PR team will tell the newspaper : "we tried to engage with him prior to repossession. Repossession is always a last resort : and a court ruled in our favour granting the repossession order"

 

Are there any other firms who have ignored your complaints? (That is: so far it is as a minimum HBOS and Vodafone)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?440042-Vodafone-nuisance-calls-9260167-i-m-after-obtaining-an-injunction-order&p=4755090#post4755090

 

Why do you think that is ?

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Did you oppose the repossession in court?

Yes. But I failed, big time fail. I did not have any documents in court to show I paid £5,000 to clear the arrears. Judge said if i bought documents he would stop repossession. As I didn't bring documents and the banks solicitor didn't have notification I had already paid arrears then repossession went ahead.

Prior to court, bank told me they would cancel repossession if i cleared the arrears. I cleared the arrears as well as paying an extra 2 or 3 months to give time to the bank to sort out their error which caused buildup of arrears.

I suspect HBOS's PR team will tell the newspaper : "we tried to engage with him prior to repossession. Repossession is always a last resort : and a court ruled in our favour granting the repossession order"

I have original letters all stamped by the bank, bank made photocopy and i kept hold of original letters to act as a receipt. These were mostly letters prior to bank error and repossession as related to an associated complaint. That part of the complaint has been dealt with by barrister and the solicitor who completed my mortgage was struck off following barrister complaint to law society (from what i know).

They did not try to engage with me. They ignored my letters. Presumably because the first part of my complaint was complex and barrister had to deal with a case of professional negligence, and the second part of my complaint just showed that HBOS made an error in repossessing the house.

Are there any other firms who have ignored your complaints? (That is: so far it is as a minimum HBOS and Vodafone)

 

No. Just HBOS and Vodafone. Though in all fairness to Vodafone, they don't ignore complaints, they simply do not act upon them and certainly do not adhere to the relevant law surrounding that complaint!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?440042-Vodafone-nuisance-calls-9260167-i-m-after-obtaining-an-injunction-order&p=4755090#post4755090

 

Why do you think that is ?

I do not know. Maybe because big business such as those 2 companies know they can effectively get away with ignoring customers complaints since it takes a lot of effort for the customer to proceed to a court claim.

Vodafone = my action against them is out of principle and their disregard of my rights.

HBOS = their repossession has caused a huge financial loss and I need to take further action but simply don't know how!

 

Anyway, they are the reasons why I think that is. Why do you think that is?

 

as you can see from vodafone thread, i tried repeatedly to sort out the problem, but each complaint led to further complaints etc...

 

same as HBOS, i tried repeatedly to sort out that problem, with each complaint leading to further complaints about earlier complaints being ignored etc etc

 

Vodafone case seems easy enough and it will provide me with an opportunity to learn more about the court process which may help me with HBOS.

But HBOS is quite complex, since it involves a lengthy complaint resulting in a solicitor struck off for professional negligence as well as house repossessed despite there being no arrears.

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Just reading throught yur post quickly Mr P I think the bit about the mortgage not being regulated is nonsense.

 

 

You have every right to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

 

However it is hard to see how you could 'miss' the fact that the mortgage company had not taken your payment for six months, and also what happened to the dozens of letters you would have had from them threatening repossession?

 

 

If you genuinely received nothing then they are in breach of the rules but I know from my own experience that you are showered with paperwork when you are in arrears with your mortgage.

 

 

It costs nothing to take your complaint to the Ombudsman (HBOS will have to pay a fee to have the case investigated) go ahead and let them decide if it is a regulated product or not.

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Just reading throught yur post quickly Mr P I think the bit about the mortgage not being regulated is nonsense.

The mortgage was unregulated. Because I just finished my study I couldn't prove my income. As I couldn't prove income, mortgage advisor said the only mortgage I could obtain was a 'self certification buy to let'

 

You have every right to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

They do not investigate unregulated mortgages.

 

 

However it is hard to see how you could 'miss' the fact that the mortgage company had not taken your payment for six months, and also what happened to the dozens of letters you would have had from them threatening repossession?

It was left empty for about 3 or 4 months. When I returned there, I saw about 3 or 4 letters about arrears and repossession.

Because Halifax made mistake on my current account, the funds were there to clear the arrears.

 

If you genuinely received nothing then they are in breach of the rules but I know from my own experience that you are showered with paperwork when you are in arrears with your mortgage.

Yes, I had paperwork so they are not in breach of the rules. Its just I didn't read the paperwork until a few days before repossession.

 

As soon as I read the paperwork, I arranged to make payment to clear the arrears. I paid the arrears and also placed account in credit by paying more than the arrears.

It costs nothing to take your complaint to the Ombudsman (HBOS will have to pay a fee to have the case investigated) go ahead and let them decide if it is a regulated product or not.

It is not regulated.

 

i have put details in with a company who said they can see if the mortgage was missold to me. if it is decided it was missold, that does not mean i would get my money back for deposit or other financial losses.

 

HBOS final response to my complaint letters = to ignore my complaint and send me a letter stating that any further communication will be placed upon file.

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Yes. But I failed, big time fail. I did not have any documents in court to show I paid £5,000 to clear the arrears. Judge said if i bought documents he would stop repossession. As I didn't bring documents and the banks solicitor didn't have notification I had already paid arrears then repossession went ahead.

Prior to court, bank told me they would cancel repossession if i cleared the arrears. I cleared the arrears as well as paying an extra 2 or 3 months to give time to the bank to sort out their error which caused buildup of arrears.

 

Did you have your solicitor (or the duty solicitor) representing you?

Why did they (or you) not ensure you had the statements showing the arrears cleared /paid with you, or ask for an adjournment??

 

From HBOS's point of view ; they tried writing to the address they had for you and you didn't reply, and in court you had no evidence that you had paid.

 

But HBOS is quite complex, since it involves a lengthy complaint resulting in a solicitor struck off for professional negligence as well as house repossessed despite there being no arrears.

 

Was the solicitor who was later struck off working as an agent of HBOS? If not, how does their negligence affect any case you feel you have against HBOS?

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Did you have your solicitor (or the duty solicitor) representing you?

No. There was no duty solicitor available.

Why did they (or you) not ensure you had the statements showing the arrears cleared /paid with you, or ask for an adjournment??

I did have a receipt showing payment of the arrears. But I did not have it in court with me.

The problem was that the court hearing was at 10.30 (from what I remember). It was delayed because the banks solicitor did not arrive till after midday.

At midday, I returned to the car to get another parking ticket and stupidly left my receipt showing arrears had been paid in the car.

The Judge would not allow me 5 minutes to go and get my receipt, though the Judge did allow nearly 2 hours for the duty solicitor to turn up.

From HBOS's point of view ; they tried writing to the address they had for you and you didn't reply, and in court you had no evidence that you had paid.

No, I informed HBOS of a temporary change of address for my bank account and mortgage account - this was not actioned by HBOS.

When I returned to the house and saw the letters, I contacted HBOS to firstly complain that HBOS cancelled wrong direct debit, they cancelled the mortgage direct debit and did not cancel my phone line direct debit. This resulted in the funds that were meant to go to repay the mortgage each month had built up in my bank account so I was able to quickly pay the arrears when I learnt about them.

 

 

Was the solicitor who was later struck off working as an agent of HBOS?

No, the solicitor who was struck off was the solicitor who did conveyancing work for the house/ mortgage.

 

If not, how does their negligence affect any case you feel you have against HBOS?

I do not that that it does? The negligence against HBOS I believe to be:

1. They didn't update my bank and mortgage accounts as per my request.

2. When I found out the problem, I immediately arranged payment to cover the arrears and also essentially place the mortgage in credit for 2 or 3 months whilst direct debit was sorted out. In spite of this, the mortgage arrears were paid into a different account. I was told that it would be transferred out of that account to repay the mortgage. After this, I was told that it couldn't be transferred.

 

The conveyancing solicitor was struck off for what I believe to be fraud. For example, an extra £10,000 had been added to my mortgage by way of a secured loan - which I did not agree to, neither did I have any knowledge of this.

Conveyancing solicitor also sent me a letter saying that there is a problem in the mortgage and that I would need a re-mortgage to get rid of the problem.

 

The barrister who dealt with this wanted more money to proceed with a claim of professional negligence against the solicitor involved. After I had already paid the barrister a lot of money to sort out the problem, I didn't have further money to spend in more action.

 

 

My problem is not so much the complaint against solicitor who was struck off for professional negligence. My problem is that I paid £5k to clear the arrears on condition that HBOS would stop repossession. As HBOS made further error and placed this in a different account and wouldn't transfer again, then repossession went ahead.

 

Since that time, HBOS have been ignoring this complaint.

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The conveyancing solicitor was struck off for what I believe to be fraud. For example, an extra £10,000 had been added to my mortgage by way of a secured loan - which I did not agree to, neither did I have any knowledge of this.

Conveyancing solicitor also sent me a letter saying that there is a problem in the mortgage and that I would need a re-mortgage to get rid of the problem.

 

The barrister who dealt with this wanted more money to proceed with a claim of professional negligence against the solicitor involved. After I had already paid the barrister a lot of money to sort out the problem, I didn't have further money to spend in more action.

 

 

My problem is not so much the complaint against solicitor who was struck off for professional negligence. My problem is that I paid £5k to clear the arrears on condition that HBOS would stop repossession. As HBOS made further error and placed this in a different account and wouldn't transfer again, then repossession went ahead.

 

Since that time, HBOS have been ignoring this complaint.

 

Yet, you said the HBOS case was complex, and involved the solicitor struck off.

 

But HBOS is quite complex, since it involves a lengthy complaint resulting in a solicitor struck off for professional negligence as well as house repossessed despite there being no arrears.

 

Yet in fact:

You had a problem with a solicitor

Completely separately, you had a problem with HBOS

 

Why do you have to make things more complex for yourself by conflating two separate issues?

 

You could have had retained the help of a solicitor for the repossession hearing: that alone may have prevented you leaving your evidence that comprised your defence in your car.

You didn't have to pay for a solicitor, but if you chose to be self-represented : you can't blame HBOS or the court if you can't lodge your evidence with the court : why did you not do so in advance or at least make sure you had it with you.

 

Did you formally ask for an adjournment?.

 

Sounds like you made some expensive mistakes (not checking the property for mail, not hiring a solicitor, not lodging your evidence in advance, not taking the receipt into court)

 

Any losses that followed - follow as a result of your errors, once the court reached its decision, based on the evidence it had in front of it. You claim unfairness based on that you had cleared the arrears at the eleventh hour: all you had to do was show the court that, but you failed to do so.

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Yet, you said the HBOS case was complex, and involved the solicitor struck off.

 

 

 

Yet in fact:

You had a problem with a solicitor

Completely separately, you had a problem with HBOS

 

Why do you have to make things more complex for yourself by conflating two separate issues?

To show that HBOS ignored complaints made at the start of the mortgage. I wrongly assumed letter from my solicitor was blaming HBOS.

 

 

You could have had retained the help of a solicitor for the repossession hearing: that alone may have prevented you leaving your evidence that comprised your defence in your car.

I had already spent around £5,000 on previous solicitor and barrister - they wanted more money. I didn't want to pay solicitor to stop repossession as I wrongly assumed that the court would not allow repossession as I had paid the arrears in full.

 

You didn't have to pay for a solicitor, but if you chose to be self-represented : you can't blame HBOS or the court if you can't lodge your evidence with the court : why did you not do so in advance or at least make sure you had it with you.

Everything happened within a few days, from finding letters of arrears, repossession, dealing with HBOS and making court application.

 

Did you formally ask for an adjournment?.

No.

 

Sounds like you made some expensive mistakes (not checking the property for mail, Had HBOS dealt with my request, mail would have been sent to the address i was living in (parents) not hiring a solicitor, I had already spent £5,000 earlier for a solicitor to sort out a problem which was through no fault of my own not lodging your evidence in advance, this was emergency court hearing, same day or next day, i can't remember now not taking the receipt into court)receipt taken to court but I stupidly left it in car and find it unfair that the court is willing to wait 2 hours for HBOS solicitor yet can't wait 5 minutes for me to return to car

 

Any losses that followed - follow as a result of your errors,

No, - it was not my error that arrears had built up, it was not my error HBOS didn't change my address, it was not my error that I paid arrears in full after confirmation from HBOS that this would stop repossession for them to ignore the fact they made a mistake and placed arrears in an account that could not transfer out from

 

once the court reached its decision, based on the evidence it had in front of it.

The evidence was that I said to the court that mistake was made by HBOS which caused the arrears and that once I realised this mistake, I paid the arrears in full.

The HBOS solicitor evidence was that I am simply in arrears.

Judge asked HBOS solicitor if she had a record of me paying the arrears, to which she hadn't.

The evidence was verbal between myself and HBOS solicitor.

 

You claim unfairness based on that you had cleared the arrears at the eleventh hour: all you had to do was show the court that, but you failed to do so.

I told the court this. I was asked for paperwork. I said I left paperwork in car and asked could I return to get it.

Court would not allow me 5 minutes yet allowed HBOS 2 hours lateness.

 

It wasn't my error arrears had built up. Neither was it my error that when the arrears had been paid, they were paid into a wrong account by HBOS.

 

HBOS refuse to answer this complaint.

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It wasn't my error arrears had built up. Neither was it my error that when the arrears had been paid, they were paid into a wrong account by HBOS.

 

HBOS refuse to answer this complaint.

 

Res judicata: the court ruled. Why should HBOS reply beyond : "you had your day in court"

 

You didn't take your key evidence into court.

Blame HBOS all you like but in the end it boils down to that error (your last chance to correct your previous errors such as not noticing the mortgage hadn't been paid!).

 

You didn't formally ask for an adjournment?

You asked for "5 minutes"? Refusal suggests to me something in your manner, or presentation of your case had already irritated the judge.

 

this was emergency court hearing, same day or next day,

 

Do you mean HBOS obtained an emergency court hearing? Or do you mean it was an emergency to you, but a normally listed hearing to everyone else?.

 

Or you had already had an adjournment?

 

I suspect there is more here you haven't yet revealed?

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Res judicata: the court ruled. Why should HBOS reply beyond : "you had your day in court"

because HBOS made an error in repossessing the house despite the fact that the arrears had been paid plus the fact that I went to court in an effort to stop repossession based upon the fact that arrears had been paid.

 

You didn't take your key evidence into court.

Blame HBOS all you like but in the end it boils down to that error (your last chance to correct your previous errors such as not noticing the mortgage hadn't been paid!).

Yes, it was my error I left papers in the car. A right to a fair trial? There is no fairness in the court allowing the case to wait for around 2 hours because HBOS solicitor is late and not allowing me 5 minutes to return to the car.

 

You didn't formally ask for an adjournment?

The court case and repossession were both on the same day.

 

You asked for "5 minutes"? Refusal suggests to me something in your manner, or presentation of your case had already irritated the judge.

I don't know. Perhaps judge was irritated because had to wait 2 hours for HBOS solicitor to turn up.

 

Do you mean HBOS obtained an emergency court hearing?

Or you had already had an adjournment?

Emergency court hearing (i may have used wrong term) - I requested court hearing to stop repossession, i think it was an emergency hearing because I applied for this either the day before, or on the day of repossession (i cant remember which day)

 

I suspect there is more here you haven't yet revealed?

I have revealed everything!

1. HBOS did not action request for direct debit and change of address on my account - this led to arrears being built up without my knowledge.

2. Upon discovering the arrears, I contacted HBOS who stated I need to pay total arrears to stop the repossession.

3. Money was transferred from my current account to clear the arrears.

4. HBOS solicitors could not confirm eviction was cancelled as they could not trace payment.

5. Contacted HBOS to enquire as to the payment. Advisor said he could see payment has been made (over £5,000) but it had been paid into a wrong account. Advisor said he was unable to transfer the money from this account into my mortgage account. Advisor transferred my call to a manager who confirmed the same - that the money could not be transferred.

 

I paid £5,000 in order to stop HBOS repossession. HBOS repossessed and have ignored my complaints / refuse to answer my complaints.

not sure what else i should reveal.

 

apart from one branch manager who could see my problem spent literally hours trying to get the problem sorted out. the branch manager had 4 meetings with myself, on each occasion he tried to speak with someone who could deal with my complaint. upon the fourth occasion and after many many phone calls, the branch manager told me someone will be dealing with my complaint. I then had to wait 8 weeks for an answer to my complaint, their answer was that they could not read my letter. When asked why they could not read my letter they said there was a paper jam which caused the letter not to be printed correctly. (excuse). - I then went back to my bank and spoke with the manager again, by this time we were on first name terms! He was at a loss for words when i told him outcome of complaint. He spent time speaking to several people (whilst i was in office with him, same as previous occasions) and the result was that he faxed my complaint to a head office. The result from that was they replied saying that they had received my complaint and that any further communication from myself would be placed on file.

 

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I get why the mortgage was self-cert, but why BTL?


 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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mortgage advisor told me it was the cheapest possible option for me. self cert as i just finished uni and couldnt prove my income as i just started working. house was never rented to anyone. not even in the 3 months i lived with parents because i didnt want any risks or hassle in renting it out to people.

 

if i knew it was unregulated and i couldn't fall back on an ombudsman if everything went wrong, i probably would not have accepted the mortgage.

 

it is a lot of money for me to lose, the deposit, the arrears, plus i also paid for the house to be partly refurbished. it seems that at the moment it is my fault for not having one document with me in court (yes, it is my fault) but at the same time i feel that HBOS are at fault to a much greater extent

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Sorry but once a court is involved and ruled, you are outside the company's complaint procedure. its just HOW IT IS.

 

You now have to work within the judicial procedures.


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so that means a bank can take someones house from them without there being any arrears, in the full knowledge that the customer then has to resort to legal proceedings!

 

ive already had to pay £5,000.00 for solicitor and barrister for earlier problem with mortgage through no fault of my own... plus they wanted more money to make claim.

 

paying more money for further legal advice... = the only winners are the legal profession

 

it seems that most of my holiday will be spent standing outside one of their branches handing out leaflets to passers by. maybe that will shame them into dealing with my complaint.

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rights to a fair trial = no duty solicitor was available, HBOS solicitor around 2 hours late, I was not allowed 5 minutes to return to car and get document

 

are they sufficient reasons i can argue that the court hearing was not a fair trial?

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mortgage advisor told me it was the cheapest possible option for me. self cert as i just finished uni and couldnt prove my income as i just started working. house was never rented to anyone. not even in the 3 months i lived with parents because i didnt want any risks or hassle in renting it out to people.

 

if i knew it was unregulated and i couldn't fall back on an ombudsman if everything went wrong, i probably would not have accepted the mortgage.

 

it is a lot of money for me to lose, the deposit, the arrears, plus i also paid for the house to be partly refurbished. it seems that at the moment it is my fault for not having one document with me in court (yes, it is my fault) but at the same time i feel that HBOS are at fault to a much greater extent

 

This doesn't explain why a BTL mortgage which I believe is the reason it was unregulated. Nothing to do with self cert.


 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Then i dont know the reason. I blindly followed the advisors advice.

 

Perhaps I could go down the route of the mortgage being mis-sold? But i am not sure if that would cover all financial losses.

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Then i dont know the reason. I blindly followed the advisors advice.

 

Perhaps I could go down the route of the mortgage being mis-sold? But i am not sure if that would cover all financial losses.

 

I was thinking along the same lines, but agree it's unlikely to cover everything.

 

See what others think.


 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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rights to a fair trial = no duty solicitor was available, HBOS solicitor around 2 hours late, I was not allowed 5 minutes to return to car and get document

 

are they sufficient reasons i can argue that the court hearing was not a fair trial?

 

You had a right to a fair trial.

You not taking the evidence into court means that you made (yet another) error, not that the proceedings were unfair.

 

Your option to correct the preceeding errors (yours and HBOS's both!) was the court hearing.

If you chose not to use a solicitor you are taking the chance a duty solicitor will be available, and if not the onus is on you to present your case including evidence - if you didn't do so that doesn't make it unfair.

 

Emergency court hearing (i may have used wrong term) - I requested court hearing to stop repossession, i think it was an emergency hearing because I applied for this either the day before, or on the day of repossession (i cant remember which day)

 

So, HBOS already had a possession order?

(Else there wouldn't have already been a day for repossession set, or it would have been HBOS's normally listed court case)

 

With the potential financial loss you faced (and the risk of your inability to present your evidence) : how do you compare the cost it would have been to get a solicitor against what you have lost since.

 

Are you sure you are cut out to self-represent?

(Major clanger dropped at your emergency hearing, over 400 hours spent on research on your Voda thread but you still needed your N1 written for you .....)

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the unfairness is the court waited approx 2 hours for HBOS solicitor yet would not allow me 5 minutes to get the evidence.

 

also, i thought that for court, both sides need documents. the judge asked HBOS solicitor if she had any notice that i paid the arrears. the solicitor did not have that paperwork with her. the solicitor did not show any paperwork to the judge.

 

other examples of unfair relationship between myself and HBOS before court hearing is that HBOS completely ignored my earlier complaints (Concerning the professional negligence of conveyancing solicitor)

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maybe another example is that research should have been conducted to ascertain that i did pay the arrears.

 

this court case http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/12897055.Murderer_who_strangled_his_mum_claims_he_did_not_receive_fair_trial/

shows a murderers legal rep argue that the murderer did not receive a fair trial as no research was conducted into the effect of his medication.

 

no research was conducted into where my arrears were paid!

 

the judge could have postponed the repossession for a few days in order for me to get the document. he could have delayed the court hearing by a few minutes also.

 

 

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the unfairness is the court waited approx 2 hours for HBOS solicitor yet would not allow me 5 minutes to get the evidence.

 

also, i thought that for court, both sides need documents. the judge asked HBOS solicitor if she had any notice that i paid the arrears. the solicitor did not have that paperwork with her. the solicitor did not show any paperwork to the judge.

 

HBOS's solicitor doesn't have to present documents they don't have to the court.

If it was something they didn't have, that you did, and you wanted to rely on it ; they don't have to produce it, you do!

 

When I asked (previously)

"Was the solicitor who was later struck off working as an agent of HBOS? ", you replied:

 

No, the solicitor who was struck off was the solicitor who did conveyancing work for the house/ mortgage.

 

other examples of unfair relationship between myself and HBOS before court hearing is that HBOS completely ignored my earlier complaints (Concerning the professional negligence of conveyancing solicitor)

 

I've noted it before but do so again:

Negligence by your conveyancing solicitor isn't something HBOS needs to answer for. They were your agent, not HBOS's. Why should HBOS feel any responsibility for actions of your agent? No wonder they ignored the complaints regarding your (not their) solicitor.

 

Say I don't like the work done by a gardener I hired this weekend. I'll write a letter complaining to my mortgage provider. Since they have no responsibility for the gardener they'll say "not our problem". If they've had lots of spurious or unreasonable complaints from me they might even ignore it completely. Now replace "a gardener" with "my conveyancing solicitor" : the mortgage company might be held responsible for the actions of their agent (their solicitor), not the purchaser's conveyancing solicitor.

 

You wanting HBOS to answer for your failures and those of your agents : unreasonable.

Might they have treated you better : perhaps.

 

However, if you were confusing issues (like you have done here) and been making unreasonable demands, while not producing key evidence : unsurprising it didn't go well.

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HBOS's solicitor doesn't have to present documents they don't have to the court.

If it was something they didn't have, that you did, and you wanted to rely on it ; they don't have to produce it, you do!

 

When I asked (previously)

"Was the solicitor who was later struck off working as an agent of HBOS? ", you replied:

 

 

 

 

 

I've noted it before but do so again:

Negligence by your conveyancing solicitor isn't something HBOS needs to answer for. They were your agent, not HBOS's. Why should HBOS feel any responsibility for actions of your agent? No wonder they ignored the complaints regarding your (not their) solicitor.

This then led to an unfair relationship between myself and the bank? As far as I was concerned, I relied on the solicitors letter to be correct and made complaint to bank about the contents of solicitors letter (as it said there were errors in HBOS mortgage).

HBOS refused to answer this complaint or even respond to it.

They could have responded stating that there was no problem in the mortgage. It took me 6 years to get them to do this. And they only did this after speaking with their branch manager informing him I intended to stand outside his bank... Obviously, he didn't want this - and he tried his best to help me get answers. When he did eventually get answers, then bank confirmed that there was no problems in my mortgage (the solicitor was lying)

Say I don't like the work done by a gardener I hired this weekend. I'll write a letter complaining to my mortgage provider. Since they have no responsibility for the gardener they'll say "not our problem". If they've had lots of spurious or unreasonable complaints from me they might even ignore it completely. Now replace "a gardener" with "my conveyancing solicitor" : the mortgage company might be held responsible for the actions of their agent (their solicitor), not the purchaser's conveyancing solicitor.

Yes, I understand that. Though my complaint to the mortgage company was asking HBOS what are the problems in my mortgage and why did my solicitor advise me to re-mortgage?

 

I would not contact my mortgage company if there was a problem with my gardener as per your analogy. I contacted my mortgage company because my solicitor told me in letter that there are problems in my mortgage, i couldnt sell house in future etc... and that I need to take a re-mortgage.

The mortgage company could have responded saying that as far as they are concerned there are no problems with the mortgage and that they would let me sell it in the future. It took 6 years for them to say this to me. They only said this to me after their branch manager was aware of the fact that i would stand outside his bank.

and - to answer your question about Why should HBOS feel any responsibility for actions of my agent / solicitor? = because I was a customer of HBOS and asking them why my solicitor informed me about the errors and inability to sell etc.

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