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    • Is it unusual for them to have all the documents they have provided so far?
    • That still leaves it unclear if: a) you “made a mistake” and accidentally bought the wrong ticket (only to Three Bridges), or b) You had a “moment of very poor judgement” and deliberately bought a ‘short ticket’ It can’t be both.   Climb off the fence you are sitting on, it’ll give you splinters............ at the moment you are trying to hedge your bets but it is obvious that is what you are doing, and as a result: why should they believe the rest (expressions of regret, won’t do it again, sole income earner who will lose their job, etc.)
    • Email and call your local councillor, their details should be on Google.  Just explain everything to them and they will have the bailiffs off your back in short order.   Do it now, and this could be resolved by tomorrow.  
    • Your latest ramblings make no sense in relation to the issue (which is whether a person hearing an SD can question the maker as to its truthfulness and reject the declaration if they are not satisfied as such).     It's not within 21 days of the hearing it's within 21 days of learning of the conviction of which they were unaware. I don't know what it is you are reading or are referring to but there is no "debtor" involved in an SD that is made to have a conviction set aside. When an SD is heard in court the only officers involved are the court's Legal Advisor and the Magistrates themselves.   I’ve just been looking back at the original post which started all this off to ensure I wasn’t going mad. I’m pleased to say I don’t think I am. Instead I am of the opinion that you did not properly grasp what originally happened to the OP and compounded that by providing incorrect, misleading and confusing advice whilst plucking bits of irrelevant legislation from thin air randomly when you commented. Here’s a few of your quotes and my comments for you to consider.     The OP said no such thing. She said she had moved three years earlier. For some reason unknown, her change of address was not recorded by the DVLA. She said she was happy to accept the speeding allegation. This indicated she was driving (a fact she confirmed absolutely soon afterwards). Nowhere did she ever say she was not the owner of the vehicle at the relevant time.         So, from advice to plead Not Guilty to advice to plead Guilty inside two hours, with no new or additional information provided. Still you mention somebody else being the driver.         What is an “out of time statement” and where and when was one ever mentioned?     Then from the OP:       Your response:       The cause of any confusion was your comments. She said from the outset that she did not live at her old address when the offence was committed (in fact she went to some lengths to explain that was why she did not receive the court papers). Nowhere did she suggest she was not the driver nor that she could not or would not disclose who was.     No it isn’t. A Statutory Declaration voids the original conviction as if it never happened. Section 142 of the Magistrates’ Court Act is not involved with the resurrection of proceedings following an SD. That Section grants the Magistrates powers to re-open cases to rectify mistakes, etc. There has been no mistake here, the Magistrates will not be called upon to re-open the case and could not prevent it being revisited even if they wanted to.   Then we set off into the intricacies of the Statutory Declaration process which is covered above.   I’m not surprised the OP in this particular case became confused. Her matter is straightforward enough (for those who know the law and the process). In summary: She moved; She thought the DVLA had her vehicle registered at her new address but they hadn’t; Her vehicle (with her driving) was detected speeding; She (unsurprisingly) did not receive the notification of that offence or the request for driver’s details; She obviously didn’t reply to that request, she was prosecuted for it, convicted in her absence and without her knowledge.   Happens every day and simple to deal with.   Unfortunately, not when you became involved it isn't. Firstly you grasped the wrong end of the stick by assuming she was not the owner and/or the driver. You advised her to plead Not Guilty on that basis. Then, when you had grasped some idea of what had really happened you suggested she plead guilty to the S172 offence purely on the basis she had moved and the speeding information was sent to her old address. Very poor advice. Then you scared her witless by incorrectly suggesting there was a chance her SD would be rejected if it was thought her declaration may be untruthful. There also followed discussions about the six month time limit for prosecutions and the 21 day limit for SDs to be accepted unconditionally (both totally irrelevant).   I don’t suppose you will accept any of these criticisms but whether you do or not you clearly caused the OP considerable confusion and probably distress. My comments are not based on something I've heard on the net or on barroom (sic) knowledge. They are based on my knowledge of the law and of Magistrates' Court procedures.  It's obvious you will pay no heed to me so when I see any such clearly misleading information provided to an OP by you in this section in future I will simply report it to the site's administrators.
    • Just ignore unless you receive a PAP letter.    Chances are you will run out the clock and it will become SB'd.    
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My daughter fell behind with 2 payments on her payment plan due to her partner and her benefits being stopped she has now had a Compliance letter with the £75 fee which she cannot afford we have called collectica and they put us through to the bailiff who was very rude and said he wanted the full amount(£276.45) and it was not negotiable I then spoke to him and informed him that I was recording this conversation of which he told me that it was not allowed and I was going to get sued by collectica.The main point that I am trying to find out is will she be classed as vulnerable as the are both on benefits and have 2 children under 5 also we have been in contact with national debt line and sent collectica an income and outgoing sheet to prove that she cannot afford to pay what they want but they have refused and told us that they will go back to court get a forced entry warrant and empty her house that was the word the bailiff used can they do this? she has started to make payments through the payment facility on there website. thanks for any advise.

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Hi Steveball, as usual the Baliff is trying to frighten and bully you into paying, they cant clear the house of everything! There are rules in place of what they can take...after they have gained entry to the home! just dont let them in, if your daughter has a car park it away from the home. Others will be along soon to give further advise.

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Did you get I will clear the house out on the recording? if so might be room to complain once all is sorted, they as Sparks says cannot clear everything, so childrens toys beds bedding etc exempt.


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Prior to getting the Compliance Stage letter from Collectica did she get a letter from the Court asking her to bring heraccount up to date?


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Hi Steveball, as usual the Baliff is trying to frighten and bully you into paying, they cant clear the house of everything! There are rules in place of what they can take...after they have gained entry to the home! just dont let them in, if your daughter has a car park it away from the home. Others will be along soon to give further advise.

 

Silly advice imho. Its a magi fine. They have the power to force entry if entry is refused with no prior peaceful entry needed. Please don't give out bad advice that could ultimately put the debtor in further debt or even danger.

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Regardless of what the EA said, its not grounds to write the debt off so complaining wont stop the enforcement.

 

There is a list of goods that MAY be exempt, and you need to have a look at that. Essentially, bed, bedding, clothing, children's toys, game consoles in the kids bedrooms, an item to heat food, an item to eat from, an item to eat on, and item to eat with, a means of cooling food, and means of heating the house etc etc.

This does need to be dealt with and the old saying of just don't let them in and ignore does not apply.

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Update sorry for the delay in response I have been working long shifts away. The bailiff returned this morning and put another letter through her door and its occurred another £235 in costs she rang the number that was on the letter and the bailiff said that he would return and empty her house this afternoon if she does not pay £500 what it has now escalated to. I could help her next week when I get paid but they will not except that so she will have take a payday loan to pay this when he returns which will mean more debt that she will not be able to pay she told the bailiff this and he said good it will mean that he can return again soon. So is this behaviour acceptable can a bailiff frighten a young girl on benefits so much that she goes to the legal loan sharks for the money to pay them. Grumpy she does not want the debt writing off she missed one payment of £20 on the plan she had because her partner was late for an appointment at the job centre due to an traffic accident on his way there and was sanctioned by them for 7 days all she wants is to continue to pay the plan that she can afford. He has threatened me for recording the phone calls and would not give her his name is this right he also said it was against the law to record him in anyway whatsoever and that the equipment would be ceased and destroyed She has got most of this conversation recorded so would it be worth complaining against this bailiff and collectica

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Also the fist letter that she got with the £75 fee which said she has 14 days to pay or the bailif will visit and the £235 cost will also occur does not expire until Thursday but the bailif said that did not matter and he still wanted all.Can he do this?.

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Silly advice imho. Its a magi fine. They have the power to force entry if entry is refused with no prior peaceful entry needed. Please don't give out bad advice that could ultimately put the debtor in further debt or even danger.

 

I think you are wrong! There is a list of stuff that cannot be taken by a baliff, plus whats this 'danger' she maybe in if she doesnt let the baliff in?

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The baliff seems to have really oversteped the mark...threatening to confiscate and destroy someones possessions? I am sure it is NOT against the law to record your phone calls if its for your own use, ok cant put on youtube and such

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That's what I thought sparks I have no intention of putting on YouTube etc anyway I would not know how to I told the bailiff the recording was for me and my daughters protection and for evidence if need be. I thought that the bailiff would have to get a warrant from the magistrates court before attempting forced entry even for a TV licence fine. Also would the court grant this with a 3 and 5 year old children there. She has also payed every week on her payment card since so I would hope this would prove its not a case of she is not a wont pay but cant pay and that would stop forced entry. Do they have to do a risk assessment before forced entry as well .

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I think you are wrong! There is a list of stuff that cannot be taken by a baliff, plus whats this 'danger' she maybe in if she doesnt let the baliff in?

 

The post of mine after that post explained exempt goods.

 

The danger? The danger, as evidenced on other cases, is that silly advice means the debtor believes she is in the right by refusing access and even using force to try and stop the bailiff. This can lead to injury, arrest, convictions, prison, mental strain......all because someone that has no idea what they are on about wants to add there 2 pennies.

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Its entirely legal to record the events with or without the bailiffs knowledge. The question is whether or not a COURT would accept it as evidence.

There is nothing that would stop you filing a formal complaint or even an EAC2 complaint and trying to get the court to accept it as evidence. The problem you will face, and that I have seen first hand, is that the court may order you to prove that is the bailiffs voice. Try getting a vocal expert to sign off that its the same. Unless you have a few grand to risk, I cant see that working, but you never know what the court will do.

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Its entirely legal to record the events with or without the bailiffs knowledge. The question is whether or not a COURT would accept it as evidence. .

 

There is no Question at all.

 

A Court WOULD accept covert recordings as evidence, clearly, otherwise a great many criminal prosecutions would collapse since many rely on covert recordings.

 

Whilst the examples tend to focus on Audio recordings, I imagine the Civil Courts would apply the same to video as to audio, you provide a written transcript of what is said, done etc, then it is up to the Judge whether he watches the footage. I would imagine judges generally would listen to/watch recordings as standard anyway, to ensure they aren't being diddled with an imaginative transcript, created in the hope the Judge wont listen/view.

 

Enforcement Agents are making covert recordings daily! They don't inform people they are recording, except sometimes as a warning if the debtor is kicking off, the agents dont wear signs stating they are recording, there is no easy way for a debtor to know if a device the EA is wearing is recording or not, or to even know its a video recorder in the first place, esp older debtors who arent up on modern technology.

 

Pretty sure you would show Police and courts footage and expect them to rely on it for evidence if you were attacked or robbed, and your camera was recording, but the debtor was not warned that recording was taking place, thus its a covert recording.


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All the EA would have to do is say "prove its me on the recording". Then its up to the person issuing the proceeding to prove that.

 

Why do you think so many cases collapse? Its because they cant prove the individual in the video or audio is the defendant.

 

EA's don't do covert recording. The camera is always on view and has a notice ON the camera stating its an audio and visual recording device. If mot, there will be a verbal confirmation that the recording is taking place.

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We have sorted it hopefully

 

 

the bailiff attended 2 days earlier than was on the first notice that was dated 16/07 and not 14/07

 

 

when they attended we have paid the fine and the £75 fee so that should be the end it

 

 

I hope I know some of you will be bailiffs and nothing personnel but a big percent of bailiffs really are the pits

 

 

how can they sleep at night knowing they have reduced and terrorised young vulnerable people who are often single parents with nothing to tears and scared them half to death to lead them going to the Wonga's of this world to pay them.

 

 

People get into debt for all sorts of reasons more often than not through no fault of their own

 

 

surely we as a civilised society need to protect them rather than let these animals be set onto them.

 

 

After seeing what my daughter has been through and reading a lot of threads on this forum the debt collection industry/enforcement industry really does need to be brought into the 21st century and not left in bygone era that it clearly lives in.

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I'm glad you have got it sorted.

 

You really should be firing off a formal complaint though as if they have attended before the notice expiry, then they have breached the regulations.

 

I understand your comments, but generally, what you read is a tiny tiny % of what bailiffing is really like. Apart from 1 ot 2 cases where we are chasing someone who is vulnerable or who are genuinely not aware of the case, the rest know what is going on and are either burying their heads hoping it will go away, or are actively trying to avoid paying their debts.

 

The whole point of the new regulations is to bring us into the 21st century so yo speak. There are arguments for and against bailiffs, but we will never go away. Without bailiffs, they would have to bring back debtors prisons, criminal convictions for civil fines or any other means of already outlawed and archaic means for debt recover.

 

If the world could survive without bailiffs, we would already be extinct.

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All the EA would have to do is say "prove its me on the recording". Then its up to the person issuing the proceeding to prove that.

 

Why do you think so many cases collapse? Its because they cant prove the individual in the video or audio is the defendant.

 

EA's don't do covert recording. The camera is always on view and has a notice ON the camera stating its an audio and visual recording device. If mot, there will be a verbal confirmation that the recording is taking place.

 

Oh indeed, on poor quality public CCTV, but even phones take a video clear enough to identify a person, some even in HD. And audio recording these days is equally decent quality, whether by phone or dictaphone or tru call.

 

Also the Police aren't idiots, if the only evidence of an assault is blurry footage in which its impossible to make an identification of the suspect, it's unlikely to ever go to a court.

 

On the various shows online, "entertainment" or not, the cameras are plain grey/silver, no sign of any notice, and at no stage is it verbally confirmed that recording is taking place, despite footage of the cams clearly being used.


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The bailiffs have called my daughter saying she owed them the rest of the money and they will be attending to remove goods

despite her paying what she owed them for the first letter and them attending before the expiry date on the letter.

 

 

She has told them this and they have said that because they attended that cancelled the letter her out

and therefore she still owed them the money.

 

 

Also the have told her that if she is not in when they attend that they will have an arrest warrant out for her

and have her put in prison until she goes before a magistrate and that they have already got a warrant to gain forced entry

 

 

he also made reference to my grand children saying that she may be seen as being an unfit mother

if she ends up in front of the magistrates

 

 

she has got all this recorded

she has got an hospital appointment today for a procedure that will prevent major surgery and she must attend

 

 

the bailiff said that this was more important to pay them

and that she has to cancel that so they can collect and save herself from being arrested.

 

 

What is the best way forward to complain against these monsters considering the evidence we have

what truth is there in the bailiffs latest rant.

 

 

Also she must surly be classed as vulnerable being on benefits and also being very ill and advise on that would be great.

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Suggest an urgent complaint is made to the Magistrates court that dealt with the fine and a copy to the local MP.

 

They are obviously just out for the money and not to just collect the fine on behalf of the court. This is using threatening behaviour and some might think of contacting the Police. But unfortunately the Police won't be interested or have the time. The Magistrates are responsible for the agents they employ.


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Will send complaint interestingly the bailiff name on the letter is not showing Certificated Enforcement Agent (Bailiff) Register

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Will send complaint interestingly the bailiff name on the letter is not showing Certificated Enforcement Agent (Bailiff) Register

 

Have you tried searching just for Collectica and have you checked both lists?


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Would it be possible to PM one of the site team the bailiffs name to check if the bailiff is on the register

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