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1st credit - claimform 2004 M&S card 'debt'


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Hi ,

 

 

I am writing this on behalf of a friend.

 

 

Original CCA request to M&S in early 2013, not complied with and an application form received , ( and more card 2004. )

 

This was passed to First Credit,

my friend had housing issues so did not become aware of the correspondence from them until a claim form from Northampton.

 

I helped her with the defence, no CCA.

I spoke to the legal dept at First Credit as friend received another copy of the Application form,

and they say they have now complied with the CCA.

 

The 'Lawyer' from first Credit said they believe they have enough to argue at court ,

she said did I know about Carey V HSBC 2007 and that having signed the form it means the T&C are complied with.

At the moment Allocation Questionnaire is completed and awaiting a Court for the hearing.

 

I know this is wrong,

I thought no CCA was a complete defence but am not sure what arguments/casework we will need to present at Court.?

 

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Kindest Regards

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Thread moved to Financial legal Issues....

 

If you could read the following fully and post your responses here to give us the history of the debt and details of the claim.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**

 

Also a copy of the defence you have submitted.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Many Thanks.

 

POC

 

On 19/2/2004 The Defendant entered in to an agreement for a credit card with the original creditor under Ref No. XXXXXX .

On 22/4/13 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with the outstanding balance of £4200.

On 28/10/14 the debt was assigned to 1st Credit (Finance) Ltd in the sum of £4200 by the creditor statutory notice of assignment was sent to the

defendant and

 

 

the claimant claims

1) The sum of £4200

2) Statutory interest pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 at 8% per annum from 14/11/2014 until Judgement or Sooner payment.

 

2. Value £4200 rounded

 

3 .Credit card claim

 

4.Original agreement 2004

 

5.Debt purchaser issued claim

 

6.Am sure NofA was received but no mail was opened for many weeks, I have not seen it.

 

7. As above

 

8. unsure

 

9. Payments ceased, severe financial difficulties.

 

10. Last payment approx Sept 2012

 

11. PPI dispute with M and S around the same time .Used a claim company. PPI returned on other cards and balances paid off. M and S did not pay out. I am unsure of status now.

 

12. Do not think any communication re' financial situation

 

DEFENCE

 

1) I received the claim XXXX from County Court Business Centre Northampton, NN1 2LH on or about 27th March 2015.

2) Each and every allegation in the claimant’s Particulars of Claim is denied.

3) This claim appears to be for a credit card Ref: XXXX an agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

4) The claimant’s statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards to the claim.

5) The claimant’s statement of case states that the account was assigned from ( ) to 1st Credit (Finance Ltd) on 28/10/2014. The defendant does not recall receiving Notice of this Assignment.

6) It is denied that the original creditor ( ) served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to S87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default notice was served upon the Defendant.

7) On 8th April, via telephone, a verbal request was made for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case. Under Civil Procedure rule 31.14, I made this request to Moon Beever. I requested copies of the agreement, default notice and notice of assignment.

8) On 19/2/2013, I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Marks and Spencer pursuant to Sec 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, along with the statutory £1.00 fee.

9) The claimant has failed to comply with S77 (1)/S78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of S77 (4)/S78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974, cannot enforce the agreement.

10) Under CPR 16.5 (4), where the claim includes a money claim, a Defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money claimed is owed.

11) I Request the court orders the claimants to provide the necessary documentation for me to fully plead my case else the claim should stand struck out.

 

 

 

 

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

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Many thanks.......

 

You state you are at allocation stage...what date did you submit your DQ? Have they served a copy of theirs on you?

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Received a letter from 1st credit 15th May Notice of change of legal Rep from Moon Beever.

 

Small claims directions Questionnaire was due to be returned by 5th June. I returned it for friend at least 7-10 days before that , though cannot be sure or exact date .

 

Letter from 1st credit on 19th May confirming there intention to proceed with claim.

 

I think they have served DQ, as my friend requested a local court and I seem to remember her saying it was a Court in Reigate. ( I can confirm with her later today ).

 

Letter from 1st credit dated 15th June enclosing copy of

Signed application form

Terms and Conditions and Copy Statement.

Then stating 'We have complied with section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. '

' In the circumstances we invite you to contact us with regard to settling this account to avoid costs and time in litigating. we look forward to hearing from you'.

 

I called First Credit, in May, at that point they said they did not understand why the account was passed to them as had PPI dispute and CCA dispute. They said they had no knowledge of this.During that call, She advised they would most probably stay the claim awaiting executed agreement. I rang them again yesterday and this time they say they consider they have the relevant documentation and she said I should familiarise myself with Carey V HSBC 2007 and that the case will be argued in front of a Judge. She gave a time scale of 6 months for possible hearing and a timescale of 6 - 8 weeks to hear about that date.

 

In response to CCA and from 1st Credit Only documentation received is '& more Credit Card application. For

Some reason the copy from 1st Credit has a lot of highliting on it. The one from M and s does not. Why would they do that?

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But have they served a copy of their DQ on your friend..and have you checked with the court that they have actually filed their DQ?

We could do with some help from you.

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All the above of what they state and what they have disclosed as they perceive as complying with a section 78 request is irrelevant...until you know if the have filled a DQ

We could do with some help from you.

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If its been transferred then yes they have filled...now you need to scan and post up what you have received (redact any identifiable data first)

We could do with some help from you.

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You have left the claim number showing on the DQ and the agreement is jpeg and not PDF...too small to see.Unapproved ...please correct and re post.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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As you state the original agreement was 2004 and further to post# 11 above...I would be researching that case stated.... if yours was a store card conversion to credit card

 

A few links to get you going.....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17670803

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2003/oct/08/business.creditcards

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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  • 2 months later...

Do a google search for Santander v Mayhew , that was a harrods card I believe but it had been converted from a store card to a credit card . Ms Mayhew wiped the floor with Santander in court and left them with a small bill in costs, about 50K i think

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Hi ,My friend now has a court date for beginning of October, is there anything else I should advise her to do?.

Still no CCA produced after asking a second time.

Many thanks

 

As your friend followed and completed all the directions within the Notice of Allocation ?

 

Link to Santander v Mayhew already posted in #21 above.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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  • 1 month later...

Dear All,

My friend was in Wandsworth Court this morning and the Judge found in favour of First Credit and gave her 28 days (14 at first) to pay £4851.I only have snippets of info as my friend was so distressed.The Judge would not allow time for CCA to be produced she said the account probably had a CCA but it had been lost over time.The Judge also said to my friend 'are you sure you understand this bank., all CCA s are different'. The Judge refused my friend leave to appeal and said she would make a note on file that if she did she would explain why the circuit Judge would be wasting time in hearing the case?

They also said friend did not file evidence?

Said PPI was not mentioned in defence so Judge was not interested in it.

Judge said it is her personal decision that this debt should be paid as clearly a signature on the application form and debt was not denied. Her court is not a criminal court so not based on evidence?

What is the next step?

Many thanks in advance.

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Default Re: 1st credit - claimform 2004 M&S card 'debt'

Dear All,

My friend was in Wandsworth Court this morning and the Judge found in favour of first credit

and gave her 28 days (14 at first) to pay £4851.

 

 

I only have snippets of info as my friend was so distressed.

 

 

The Judge would not allow time for CCA to be produced

she said the account probably had a CCA but it had been lost over time.

 

 

The Judge also said to my friend 'are you sure you understand this bank., all CCA s are different'.

 

 

The Judge refused my friend leave to appeal and said she would make a note on file

that if she did she would explain why the circuit Judge would be wasting time in hearing the case?

 

They also said friend did not file evidence?

 

Said PPIi was not mentioned in defence so Judge was not interested in it.

 

Judge said it is her personal decision that this debt should be paid as clearly a signature on the application form and debt was not denied.

 

 

Her court is not a criminal court so not based on evidence?

 

What is the next step?

Many thanks in advance.

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Hi moving on... unfortunately, you need to be pretty tight in your approach when taking these people on in court. You need to angle your position from the very start and be focused with your legal arguments all the way along. I've learned that to my cost, and for a substantially larger sum than your friend has lost out on. Some judges don't help our chances of success either - my first experience was a similar experience.

 

It would be a difficult and costly process to go back and challenge the decision. Sometimes you just have to take it on the chin and move on. If your friend cannot pay in full, it would be best to try to come to some agreement on a suitable instalment plan.

 

Sorry I can't help more.

 

Sham

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