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    • Thanks Guys, I'll ask the questions and come back
    • It's always a good idea to check out the current posts since even though they might be totally different from your own case the arguments against their charge may be relevant to your own. And the more reasons you can come up with why the original PCN was wrongly issued, the more reason why they will not take you to Court never mind them getting a thrashing in Court.  
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Just having read of your original post and in this you state that you rent this property to multiple occupants as this is a large property, so under these circumstances you must hold a HMO licence?

 

If this is the case under the terms of a 'House of Multiple Occupancy' the tenants cannot be deemed responsible for the utilities as there is no way to determine how much of each service they are actually using (unless sub-meters are fitted) and the landlord is responsible for utility bills.

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Just having read of your original post and in this you state that you rent this property to multiple occupants as this is a large property, so under these circumstances you must hold a HMO licence?

 

If this is the case under the terms of a 'House of Multiple Occupancy' the tenants cannot be deemed responsible for the utilities as there is no way to determine how much of each service they are actually using (unless sub-meters are fitted) and the landlord is responsible for utility bills.

Very useful point.


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Just having read of your original post and in this you state that you rent this property to multiple occupants as this is a large property, so under these circumstances you must hold a HMO licence?

 

If this is the case under the terms of a 'House of Multiple Occupancy' the tenants cannot be deemed responsible for the utilities as there is no way to determine how much of each service they are actually using (unless sub-meters are fitted) and the landlord is responsible for utility bills.

 

Thank you Grem for your post. I appreciate your comments. I was told to be concise so I couldn't elaborate too much on this site but yes you point to one very likely scenario and all of us who have lived in Student Houses as HMO's are familiar with that scenario. Yes this is a licensed HMO and there is nothing in the "terms of HMO licensing" that stipulates who pays the bills..its between the consumer and the supplier. The license is between the council and the owner and manager of the property.

 

In this particular property it is impossible to have all the tenants names on the bills. Instead as I alluded to in my original post it is the responsibility of the sole managing tenant who is the main liaison point for utility bills (who makes a deduction from the rents to pay the bills) and HMO license terms. This has been the case since Npower took over and were billing the former managing tenant. The point in my original post was that Npower have continued to bill the former tenant even though they know he had left in 2010. I can prove this by showing them customer reads and letters (stamped by them as received) and emails (they replied to). All highlight that my current managing tenant has been in touch with them to obtain a contract since 2011 and 2012 onwards. And I have been in touch with them since december 2012. They have neither billed her nor me, until they came and removed the meter in April 2013. The warrant was in the name of the former managing tenant. There were no letter addressed to "the occupier". They have subsequently refused to amend the account in tenants name or to re-examine all the grossly estimated and erroneous readings.

 

Whether I am responsible for the bills as owner, or my managing tenant is responsible for them as a consumer, I should still have had sight of the bills at some stage in order to challenge erroneous meter reads and charges that were double the market rates. All consumers have that right surely?

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Npower appears to have a very distorted view on what consumers are or are not entitled to.

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just to update. I've received the SAR documents and they are a really interesting read. I've also had the judgment set aside and now received the full claim form at my current address with 14 days to respond. I'd like some help responding to this if you are able to please. Can I private message anybody with this?

thanks

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I'm away for the next 7 days and only have access to a poor internet connection and a tablet as my laptop has broken down!!

 

Please will you go through the disclosure very carefully - make lots of notes and go through it several times.

In particular try to see if there is anything missing.

 

Please report here what you find and we will get your defence in on time


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just to clarify are you asking me to jot down bits of my case here on an open forum where Npower officials and their legal team can see it? just checking.

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Yes - absolutely.

 

There is nothing to hide. We are very straightdealing.

 

It is Npower who skulk around and it is their legal department and their legal assistant who play silly tricks and serve you with documents at the last moment.

 

We don't need to act like children. We leave that to Kenny Madley Smadley Hadley Beaver.

 

Set it all out for us - in a nice bullet-pointed chronology.


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I have a list of specific points that are only strengthened further by the SAR documents as I suspected. I have 14 days to return the claim form which will deny liability and issue a counter claim before end of August. My question is this, do I write my full response now or do I just give a brief outline to meet the end of August Deadline and then follow up with full details of the case at a later directions hearing? Seems everybody is away in much of August including me!

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Yes - absolutely.

 

There is nothing to hide. We are very straightdealing.

 

It is Npower who skulk around and it is their legal department and their legal assistant who play silly tricks and serve you with documents at the last moment.

 

We don't need to act like children. We leave that to Kenny Madley Smadley Hadley Beaver.

 

Set it all out for us - in a nice bullet-pointed chronology.

 

Well the first and obvious points are that they have provided solid proof that they are aware a tenant was not at the property (as they had contacted him) yet they continued to bill me right up to the point that the meter was removed. Even the court documents have the old tenants name on when they knew that the tenant was not there.

 

Secondly they show no proof that my current tenant has contacted them, yet in the phone logs and visit logs they state that she opened the door to them and located the meter for her as well as providing telephone numbers, months before they took the meter.

 

thirdly their phone logs show them realising that their meter readings were wrong and switched around yet there is no admittance of mistake to me..

 

it goes on and on

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Start of by explaining the story on this thread.

 

We will help you draft your defence in 10 days time. We can only do that if it is fully explained here


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I'm away for the next 7 days and only have access to a poor internet connection and a tablet as my laptop has broken down!!

 

Please will you go through the disclosure very carefully - make lots of notes and go through it several times.

In particular try to see if there is anything missing.

 

Please report here what you find and we will get your defence in on time

 

Yes there is quite a bit missing especially any communication between my current tenant and them, when they have " C" for customer reads on some bills which could only have been provided by a telephone call.

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We need it all listed. List what is missing.

List the story.

 

Please do this carefully. You are already taking several posts to give us unstructured and unlinked information.

 

Please stop posting on the forum.

 

Sit back for a day and read what you have. Work out how to present the story to us and then type it into your computer and when it is ready, transfer it to this forum


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Start of by explaining the story on this thread.

 

We will help you draft your defence in 10 days time. We can only do that if it is fully explained here

 

My opening posts on Page 1 explain the story to CAG...do you mean explain the story for the courts in the response pack?

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Please follow this model of presentation - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?449914-action-so-far&p=4771806&viewfull=1#post4771806

 

Start from the beginning again.

 

List out what has happened.

List out what you have discovered from the disclosure

List out what you think is missing form the disclosure and why

 

 

Lay it all out chronologically - well spaced and bullet pointed

 

Others will come to support you as well.

My access is limited over the next week but after that we will be able to help you prepare your defence.

 

I strongly advise you not to send anything off before we have all discussed it here.

 

Also, please would you send an email to our admin email address with your contact details.

 

I believe that you have a hotmail address. Our emails very often go to spam boxes with Hotmail - so check your spam for replies and make sure you whitelist us


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Can you please confirm the following as I seem to have lost the plot somewhere.

 

You discovered a default Judgment against you which you are now in the process of setting aside - you have made an application to set this aside and now have to submit a defence in support of that ?

 

Your defence needs to be the bare bones/outline of the situation - your Witness statement which you will need to provide at a later date will put the flesh on the bones.

Edited by citizenB

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Righto, I think I am now back on track - set aside was granted and you now have to submit a defence. You have received their particulars of claim and it is my understanding that you should respond to each point of their claim - in your defence.

 

You need to submit your defence by 28th August.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Righto, I think I am now back on track - set aside was granted and you now have to submit a defence. You have received their particulars of claim and it is my understanding that you should respond to each point of their claim - in your defence.

 

You need to submit your defence by 28th August.

 

The letter from solicitor states "you have until 27 August to file and serve your defence. If this is to take the format of that enclosed with your application, then please provide a copy with a signed statement of Truth to ourselves and the court.

 

But I think at this stage I should be fine just sending the acknowledgement and then have a further 14 days, i.e till about 7th Sept to file the defence and counter claim. Is that right?

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It might be worth contacting the court to confirm the date your defence and counterclaim needs to be submitted by.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Yes I have contacted the court and they've only just received the papers from the previous court. They are in process of writing an order for Directions Questionaire to be submitted by the Date of 15th September. Just to be on the safe side I will send the acknowledgement today. They've advised that for counter claim just enclose a brief letter but I will send for N9B and leave the amount open. I'll be claiming for Trespass at least as I am not convinced of the legality of the warrant they used to enter the property. Apart from the suspect meter reads, estimated erroneous billing and back billing of course.

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Ok, if you need to acknowledge, then yes that needs to be done immediately. In which case you would then be entitled to an extra 14 days for submitting your defence.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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So I've submitted my defence and also submitted my evidence of incorrect readings to wilkin chapman. It's stayed until early December so once I hear further I will update here. Fingers crossed.

 

Relying predominantly on gas act 1986 for billing disputes. If anybody has experience in this field I will be obliged to hear.

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Npower now want to drop proceedings and have offered a hands down agreement. What advice would you give? while I'm happy to walk away I still feel that there are many consumers out there suffering at the hands of this bullying organisation and they need to be shamed in court.

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What have they offered?


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Form n279 to be signed by both parties and submitted to court to bring an end to proceedings

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