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    • Here's the Law Gazette on today's evidence to the inquiry from Gareth Jenkins of Fujitsu. Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry live: Crucial prosecution witness Gareth Jenkins says Post Office 'tried to put words in my mouth' | Law Gazette WWW.LAWGAZETTE.CO.UK Gareth Jenkins, the Fujitsu engineer whose evidence was crucial to at least a dozen sub-postmaster prosecutions, begins four days of oral evidence to...  
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    • Please check this suggested letter and let us know if there is anything wrong or anything you want to add. Please will you read it carefully and take care this time.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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I have a question regarding some of the entries in the Halsbury's Statutes 4th edition at book 13 page 791 to 796. Parts 1-[723] - 6 at [732] does any of this help at all with the more modern act taking control of goods act 2013?



Namely the following



4 Exclusion of certain goods [731]

4a Hire purchase etc. agreements [732]



Can anyone explain a little bit more on this please?

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What are you actually looking for and in conjunction with what. What would you like explained ?


They contain the statutes of the day, but because of the length of time to compile and publish are usually behind amendment made later.


All present statutes override anything in Halsburys that has not been brought up to date.

Edited by Conniff
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I've not got the book to which you refer but those numbers and section titles are those contained in the Law of Distress Amendment Act 1908 (the Act.)


The Act gave protection to some third parties whose goods were otherwise available to be taken by a bailiff levying common law distress for rent arrears. Although the Act allowed third party owners of goods to serve a declaration on the bailiff or landlord it specifically excluded certain third parties from the protection.


Hire purchase companies were not given protection so hire purchase goods could be and were taken and sold to pay the rent even though they were not owned by the tenant who owed the rent. The wording of the act means it only applies when "any superior landlord shall levy, or authorise to be levied, a distress" so this will no longer occur as only CRAR and the Schedule 12 process is available to landlords now.


I was going to say it has been repealed because it is included in part 4 of Schedule 23 to the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 but I see it is still marked as "prospective." I do not know what that means but maybe it means that the repeal has not yet taken place though I cannot think why it has not as all the old distresses for rent should be completed by now.


Although it is not applicable and is/will be repealed it does show that government has put in place legislation that deliberately did not stop hire purchase goods being taken to pay the debt owed by the hirer who was not the owner of the goods.

Edited by Andyorch
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E munch those are exactly the answers I was looking for I do understand the new act repealed the old ones but they do sometimes have a better explanation than the current Act.



The subject of goods on HP is currently relevant and I was looking to see if any of the old stuff was still useable....

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Glad to help.

Although not directly applicable it does show that it could be that the new legislation creates the ability to take control of goods in which the debtor only has a beneficial interest and not legal ownership. As I've said before please can someone give a definitive answer as to what beneficial interest is and if someone hiring an item under a hire purchase agreement has a beneficial interest in the goods. You'd think it would have come up somewhere in the last 50 years.

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A very gray area indeed. Hopefully the MOJ will address this when they do their annual review of this Act later this year?

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Mikeymack2002, I don't know if you have access to the LexisNexis database. Some libraries subscribe. It is wonderful for up-to-date law.In London Borough of Camden subscribes.Halsbury's Statutes, even the latest one, is bound to be out of date as things are constantly changing. Ditto legislation.gov.uk.

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I do have access to the latest Halsbury's 5th edition its new but not up to date as always, using the .gov site gives the most visual updates but the way the problem is going on this subject I was just looking for more concrete explanation/s regarding this subject.



Even the Solicitors are still struggling with the changes, so how is a mere mortal going to cope? My daughter has access to the data base and I often have a browse through, sometimes the database is out of date in a matter of days or weeks. Hence the supplements' issues.



Another reason for this enquiry is to find out if some of the older versions are still current and very usable!!

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As I've said before please can someone give a definitive answer as to what beneficial interest is and if someone hiring an item under a hire purchase agreement has a beneficial interest in the goods. You'd think it would have come up somewhere in the last 50 years.


In the last couple of weeks John Kruse has written extensively on this subject and I fully support his view that goods subject to hire purchase cannot be taken into control.


Unfortunately however his article was written before the recent court hearing that found that a vehicle on hire purchase could be taken on the basis that the debtor may have a 'beneficial interest' in the vehicle. It was an astonishingly stupid case to test in court and unfortunately could have repercussions for many debtors.

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