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Rogue Trader - N1 Claim form but no POC***Claim Struck Out***


paulmuad
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Hello,

 

I received a sealed N1 Form a few days ago from MCOL. I don't wish to disclose too much about the claim by fear that the Claimant might read this forum.

 

I signed an order form with this trader after receiving a quote for 2 different jobs: part 1 and part 2. The cost was on the quote. Not on the order form. The terms and conditions attached by the trader only seem to cover part 2. They do not feature any breach of contract clause (although references to breach of contract are made throughout the document). Part 1 was supposed to take 1 day. Part 2 was supposed to take another day.

 

After 1h, the trader decided not to complete part 1 and buggered off. He then sent me an invoice asking for full payment of Part 1. I chose to ignore. He then sent my wife two unsealed N1 forms. Our two names were on both forms. Later, he made a claim through MCOL and we received two sealed N1 Forms: one for me, one for my wife. No Particulars of claims were attached as the claimant stated on the N1 Form they would follow. To this date I haven't received the POC. MCOL hasn't received them either.

 

This morning I emailed MCOL ccmcce.etc... with our two acknowledgements of service. I also emailed them scans of the envelopes and unsealed N1 forms asking them for their views. I have until early July to send back our defence. I wish of course to defend against the full amount of the claim.

 

A few questions for the experts on this forum:

 

- I wonder what my next step should be? Should I send a CPR 31.16 letter to the Claimant? Or a CPR Part 18? Or nothing?

- Will I receive confirmation from MCOL that I have an extra 14 days?

- Since I signed the order form, how can I close the claim against my wife - the second defendant?

- Can I use the fact that the T&Cs attached to the order do not cover for Part 1 and do not feature a breach of contract clause, or liabilities covering this claim, to defend against the full amount of the claim?

- Can I use the fact that the contractor breached the contract without "substantially performing its obligations" to defend?

- The contractor was supposed to send 5 workers and only sent 2. Can I use this for misrepresentation?

- Any other advice?

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

Edited by paulmuad
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Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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If there is information you require that you don't have, you can send a CPR part 18 request. This is a request for information only - depending on their responses, you can then request copies of documents. Although if this is small claim, directions will be given for disclosure later on before any hearing.

 

CPR 31.16 is a request for copies of documents - agreements, etc.

 

MCOL staff are neither qualified or permitted to provide advice on what you need to do.

 

You have 33 days from the date of issue to submit your claim.

 

Issue date + 5 for service = ?? + 14 days to acknowledge = ?? + 14 days to submit defence.

 

I would think if they have not sent their Particulars of claim, then your defence would reflect that as you do not know what claim you have to answer !

 

I am unable to answer your other questions - I am sure others will be along to advise.

 

Please note.. CPR 31.16 is incorrect - this should be CPR 31.14

Edited by citizenB

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks CitizenB.

 

Where can I find templates of letters for CPR Part 18 and 31.16? Do I risk incurring extra costs for sending them these letter? Can I put both in one letter?

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No its CPR 31.14 not CPR 31.16

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No its CPR 31.14 not CPR 31.16

 

sorry.. my fault I said 31.16.

 

 

You can find a draft 31.14 request in the CAG library - link in my signature or in green at the top left of the screen.

 

What "information" would you be looking to obtain via a CPR part 18 ?

 

I have attached a draft that was for something totally different.. but you can see how it is laid out. Please remember this was drafted for a specific purpose and only the format should be used.. not the content.

 

[ATTACH]58035[/ATTACH]

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]58036[/ATTACH]

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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That was for different circumstances in the thread you refer to......

 

In your case......" No Particulars of claims were attached as the claimant stated on the N1 Form they would follow."

 

Take a read of the following......

 

 

In particular CPR 16 .3.1 onwards...

 

Regards

 

Andy

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16/pd_part16

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Also read here.....

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part07

 

CPR 7.4 onwards.

 

You cant use a CPR 31.14...nothing in the particulars...I wouldnt advise a CPR 18 either...better to go along the route of failure to particularise CPR 16 and get it thrown out.

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So I do nothing, and wait for the claim to be potentially thrown out? Sorry I like to double check when I'm not clear. And if I receive a POC then I go for 31.14 and nail the trader with my questions.

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Paul I will go into further detail later this evening with what options are open to you...once i have digested your thread properly......

 

Acknowledge the claim for now (you have 19 days from the date on the claim ..date being day 1) and defend all for now.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Is it possible to scan a copy of the N1 (less any identifiable) or type out exactly verbatim what is in the particulars of claim box?

 

How did the trader know your wife's name?

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Is it possible to scan a copy of the N1 (less any identifiable) or type out exactly verbatim what is in the particulars of claim box?

 

How did the trader know your wife's name?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

The particular of claims box is empty. The Claimant crossed "attached" so the POC are to follow. The bit of verbatim on page 1 of the N1 form (i.e. under the brief detail of claim heading), I've sent you by PM. Sorry could;t figure out how to send a scan.

 

Paul

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Still no POC received. The court says they haven't received it or processed it either. The claimant has another 4 days to send me the POC. If he doesn't what should be my next step? Embarrassed Witness statement?

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If as you state it says " Particulars are to follow " you didnt have to acknowledge service until receipt of the separate particulars CPR 10 PD3 1 a...you then have 14 days to acknowledge.The claimant has 4 months to comply and serve the separate particulars.

 

As you have now acknowledged...in effect the 33 days has commenced...and as such a defence must now be submitted to avoid default judgment.You could contact the claimant and ask them serve the separate particulars as stated in their claim or discontinue their claim CPR 7.7

 

Application by defendant for service of claim form

 

CPR7.7

 

(1) Where a claim form has been issued against a defendant, but has not yet been served on him, the defendant may serve a notice on the claimant requiring him to serve the claim form or discontinue the claim within a period specified in the notice.

(2) The period specified in a notice served under paragraph (1) must be at least 14 days after service of the notice.

(3) If the claimant fails to comply with the notice, the court may, on the application of the defendant –

(a) dismiss the claim; or

(b) make any other order it thinks just.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Hi,

 

I believe that 7.7 applies when the claim hasn't been served on the defendant.

 

In my case the claim form has been served directly by the Court (registered letters) with a date of service of xxth June 2015. The Claimant has 14 days from this date to send me and the court the POC.

 

Particulars of claim

7.4

(1) Particulars of claim must –

(a) be contained in or served with the claim form; or

(b) subject to paragraph (2) be served on the defendant by the claimant within 14 days after service of the claim form.

(2) Particulars of claim must be served on the defendant no later than the latest time for serving a claim form.

 

Now let's suppose the Claimant doesn't send us the POC but tells the court it did. Then if I don't AOS and Defend, the Claimant will get a default judgement in his favour. That's why I did fill the AOS early. According to 7.4 the claimant has until a few days left to send me the POC. After that I will ask for the Claim to be struck out.

 

In the meantime, I've received an email from the court telling me that the judge was looking into the unsealed N1 Forms that the Claimant sent me. I hope that this, the missing POC, and the nature of the claimant business might be enough for the judge to see through it and struck it out.

 

Paul

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