Court debarcle - case adjourned to 22nd June

[ibis]

Hi guys I really need some advice in regards to a legal matter. i am advocating for a lady with learning disability we were in court friday over ballifs warrant and getting it stayed. The day before the lady and myself met the solicitor and she was awful to my client, she had her in tears.

 

We discussed it and went to court the following morning . the claimant which is the local housing authority sent there barrister over to us before our solicitor arrived. my client wanted to fire her solicitor and have the duty solicitor to represent us and push for an adjournment so she could be represented properly.

 

We told the barrister what we were going to do. our solicitor arrived walked straight by us shook hands with the barrister and the local housing authority representative. the barrister told her of our intentions so she stormed over to us began accusing my client of wasting legal aid at which point i stepped in and told her she was appaling.

 

What I want to know is are we in trouble for doing this ?, can the barrister do that as my client should have been the one to tell her? we are aiming to get a learning disabilitys specialist solicitor as back in court imminantly the court said 22nd of june day before eviction but the local housing authority approached my client an told her they want all there papers by the 19th .

 

I have no legal training im purely going as the girl hasnt got anyone else but me and a friend we are not employed by any agencys so have been winging it any advice please

Edited June 15, 2015 by citizenB
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[Ganymede]

What do you mean you are "advocating" for this lady and why do you keep referring to her as "my client"?

[ibis]

well i work as a therapist so just use client and advocating because due her learning disability she doesnt always get her needs met , essentially a friend introduced her to me at a volunteer soup kitchen and been trying to help her out please excuse my terms just trying to make her sound like a person rather than this woman or girl or lady ok,plus i dont have no agency to back me up so am trying to remain somewhat professional,

 

its not like shes a neighbour or friend, and i didnt know everything was as complicated as it was but what can i do no proper advocacy services or either social services could help in time for court ,and i dont want to be classed as taking advantage of a vulnerable girl .

Edited June 15, 2015 by citizenB
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[caro]

well i work as a therapist so just use client and advocating because due her learning disability she doesnt always get her needs met , essentially a friend introduced her to me at a volunteer soup kitchen and been trying to help her out please excuse my terms just trying to make her sound like a person rather than this woman or girl or lady ok

 

I think it would help to know the full story and why this person (how about a made up name to make her sound like a person) is being evicted.

[ibis]

She is being evicted on the grounds of rent arrears her property caught fire she was moved into alternative accomodation and then returned to the property ,at this point she didnt realise her housing benefit had been stopped so didnt renew a claim , she just left it ignored letters and now owes a good few thousand , the council dont believe she has a learning disability but several agencys including social services have agreed to support her should she stay in her flat .

 

plus she had a psychological assesment done for court in 2008 for social services who removed her children based partialy on that and what they saw. Her house is a tip she has been living unsupported in the community and no recommendations for a mencap adviser a social worker life skills classes were followed up from her child custody battle.

 

Because she wasnt paying rent and her gas was capped of she wasnt able to prove she was living in the property so they are using that as a second thing ,she has just gone over 6 months with no hot water and has been trying to put the wrong gas companys card in her meter assuming its broken she just left it. I know it sounds unbelieveable but ive seen it all.

Edited June 15, 2015 by citizenB
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[caro]

Have Social Services been asked to help and would her GP write a letter confirming her learning disabilities?

 

Does she claim benefits, and if so, which ones?

 

Could she get HB going forward, or even backdated?

[ibis]

social services are allocating her a social worker and she is in the system. gp has refered her for another learning disability assensment which again is in the process of being sorted. housing benefit refused her claim for back dating and told family mosaic (support workers) when they rung them that she needs to open a new claim which she has done cancelling out the previous one and any chance of back dating. currently she is on job seekers allowance has no housing benefit in place because they are still processing that as well . Cab have tried to help but cant do any more. im trying to find her a learning disabilitys solicitor and have got the duty solicitors number from court to ask if he could represent her if i cant find one . she has legal aid but this is all new to me

[Ganymede]

Why did she want to sack her existing solicitor?

[ibis]

main reason was not asking for a stay in regards to executing the balliffs warant. The cab said she should apply for a stay of this but the solicitor wanted to agree,and push through the warrant plus she didnt explain things to the lady so most of it she didnt understand,she refused to acept she had a learning disability and shouted at the lady till she was in tears.

 

I spoke to the solicitor on duty who represented her he managed to get the case adjourned so we can get medical evidence to support her disability, the council want all details in regards to the housing benefit claim, as twice she has personally submitted documents which have been told are fine only to recieve letters stating she needs to bring such and such, which she does then they cant find it .

 

Family mosaic spoke to them last and set up the new claim about 4 weeks ago and she is still waiting to hear, rent is accruing on her acount so its a bit of a mess.

Edited June 15, 2015 by citizenB

[ibis]

I spoke to a solicitor on the phone and told him what I said above and he thought that at the eviction/seeking possesion stage it could have been argued as no appeal was put in from looking at her court documents, but then im not sure what i would be looking for anyway. I have a possible solicitor lined up locally but cant contact them till monday morning. Surely the Local housing Authority should have a duty of care to her?

[Ganymede]

main reason was not asking for a stay in regards to executing the balliffs warant. The cab said she should apply for a stay of this but the solicitor wanted to agree,and push through the warrant plus she didnt explain things to the lady so most of it she didnt understand,she refused to acept she had a learning disability and shouted at the lady till she was in tears.I spoke to the solicitor on duty who represented her he managed to get the case adjourned so we can get medical evidence to support her disability, the council want all details in regards to the housing benefit claim, as twice she has personally submitted documents which have been told are fine only to recieve letters stating she needs to bring such and such, which she does then they cant find it .Family mosaic spoke to them last and set up the new claim about 4 weeks ago and she is still waiting to hear, rent is accruing on her acount so its a bit of a mess.

 

That all happened after the solicitor was told she was being fired though.

 

What learning disability does she have?

[caro]

Have SS given any indication of when a social worker will be allocated? If not, chase them up on Monday and make it clear that urgent help is needed.

 

The adjournment seems short for the amount to be done.

 

If Ms X has not engaged with the LHA they may have had no choice, but there are protocols they need to follow before reaching this stage. If they haven't, it could work in your favour.

[ibis]

No the day before. She has only ever seen the solicitor twice the rest of the time its form filling with her junior , this was the meeting before court, the lady didnt get a chance to speak to her in at the court as the claiments barrister told her she was going to fire her so she came over got the lady to sign to say she no longer wanted her services shouted about legal aid being wasted and went .she has complex needs according to the report from 2008 she fails to understand the impact and complexity of situations she can read and write but i ve found out she was in special education at school too.

 

She lost custody of her children due to this and was demmed to be in the bottom percentage of intelligence and theres a paragraph in the report about although she doesnt appear to present as a profound learning disability she is impaired enough to require being considered so for the proceedings. Im ringing SS first thing monday and chasing up learning dis assesment, as well as looking for solicitor .

 

the local housing authority discussed in front of me whether they thought she had a learning disability and have allocated her a housing options officer ,but she really wants to stay in her bedsit, we got her gas up and running she is making token rent payments as of this week .

 

She doesnt respond to her letters but often the block where she lives post goes missing ive asked a couple of neghbours to write to support this fact as its a shared letter box that they also dont get there post which they have done. Other than the above is there anything else i should be doing?

 

I cant get her a proper advocate from an agency as they wont deal with housing issues, at least thats what they told me. so am trying to cover all the bases to give to her solicitor as much as i can .

Edited June 15, 2015 by citizenB

[ibis]

The solicitor also said in the meeting the day before court that she was very very pessimistic because her hb wasnt backdated and when she gave us the ballifs warrant she had put down it was uncontested or words to that effect.

[caro]

Have you tried Shelter?

[ibis]

I have before this in regards to the ladys situation when i found out she was being evicted . but as she had legal representation they couldnt do anything. Is it worth speaking to them again do you think ?

[caro]

Can't hurt to try.

[ibis]

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply, just having a bit of a panic but feel a bit more confident, obviously getting her represented first but will chase up all nessacary other agencys xxx

[ibis]

also ive just found the homeless section on the forums so apologies for posting in the wrong section if i have x

[caro]

also ive just found the homeless section on the forums so apologies for posting in the wrong section if i have x

 

 

No problem. I'm actually going to move your thread to the repossession section and am asking Lea_HTH for some advice.

[ibis]

thank you very much i appreciate that x

[Lea_HTH]

What grounds were on the original claim for possession? You will find the information in section 4 of the particulars of claim. You said rent arrears and something else...these have grounds that should appear as numbers (e.g. ground 8, 10 etc) on the particulars.

 

What else do the particulars of claim say?

 

Did your friend attend the first hearing?

 

When was the claim for HB put in? She clearly was asked to provide more information and failed to do so - if they find that to be her fault, she won't get backdated HB. If the HB issue is now resolved, can she afford to pay something towards the arrears? How much are the arrears?

 

I suspect the bigger issue is the one other than the rent arrears...

 

It's perfectly acceptable for two lawyers on opposing sides to discuss a case, and nothing untoward in one telling the other information they gathered...including that the defendant planned to get rid of them. That was a shocking waste of legal aid.

[ibis]

The grounds are as follows. rent arrears, other breach of tenancy ,actual of threatened ASBO actual or threatened use of the property other not using the property as your principal home. The lady has learning disabilitys, her solicitor didnt represent her in court and if the council had supported back when she lost her children she wouldnt be in the mess the fact that she has been left to rot and let down by all services involved is whats shocking. She hasnt the ability to understand what goes on around her let alone deal with the mess she is in. If her solictor had represented her properly and not spoken to her like she was rubbish, Myself ,another person the cab and family mosaic (support services) have all spoken to housing benefits and told different things her documents were told they were fine and she has an advocate (not myself to prove this) again they dont accept her learning disabilty as reason, despite family mosasic supporting her now, social services appointing her a social worker, the doctor refering her to the nhs for an assesment. She also had a psychological assesment done in 2008 for court ,which states thats she must be regarded as having limited ability to understand complex proceedings and also the inmplications of her choices unless she has it explained to her very clearly ,based on the Wechsler scale of intelligence she performed extremly low. yes she attended the first hearing and was represented by the duty solicitor despite her having solicitor. I may not know the law but I do know there is different processes to follow when dealing with a vulnerable person even by solicitors, and none of the people involved have had any regard for that.

[Lea_HTH]

Those aren't grounds. I was quite specific in asking for the numbers, which will be detailed on the particulars of claim. I also asked for further information from the PoC.

 

My questions weren't answered. Most of what you've written is merely repetition - if you want help, you'll have to answer the questions and stop adding your own opinion - facts only.

[ibis]

well thats with the solicitor now, but from what I remember it was grounds 1 and 2 of the housing act under 2 there is a hole list of clauses cited. After speaking with the solicitor we have to get proof of her learning disability which social services are ringing me about tommorow. Proof of living at the address for 2 years. This is where we have hit a brick wall, there are no utility bills paid over 2 years, along with no rent ,council tax , this I found out today, so now I dont know what to think, you cant go 2 years with out paying anything to anyone and her learning disability isnt significant enough for that to realisticly happen. As I said before I was helping with this as a favour to a friend before i knew all this.