Bailiffs involved over unpaid PCN

bigkahuna666 · June 10, 2015

Hi Everyone!

I just joined the forum as I have just gone through the same/very similar scenario as shazbazz and I was hoping you guys could help me come to a similar happy ending.

here is the scenario:

06/03/14 paid for parking but parked on resident bay without realising :/ Issued a PCN on windscreen, which I then appealed against online based on the grounds that regardless of having a ticket or being in a residents bay without permit, I should have 20min for loading/unloading in any type of bay, as outlined on the Southwark website and since I was loading/unloading the parking restrictions should allow an exemption either way. In reply to my challenge I was told that they would re-consider their decision if I supplied a delivery note. At this point I want to mention that I supplied my current address online when I made the appeal and they replied to my current address requesting the said document in order to re-consider their decision.

After sending my reply I realised that I had not changed my address with DVLA (moved to current address end of Jan 14) so informed DVLA around May 2014 and received my new V5 in June 2014, actual date on V5 next to document number shows 20 06 14. I did not think much of it at the time, as I thought it would not matter since the LA already had my address that I provided on my initial appeal and they already replied to this address, so thought they would do the same when responding to my next letter.

However, I never heard anything again from them, so I thought they accepted my further letter and changed their decision and removed the PCN. Little did I know. I believe they never received my 2nd letter and then must have requested details from the DVLA before the address got changed (if they even bothered paying the £35 to the DVLA to get my address, they might have even used the details they had on the system from a previous PCN I got in Southwark), so I haven't actually heard anything right until March this year (26/03/15), when I received a Notice of Enforcement. The dubious thing about this letter was that it was delivered Friday the 26th, but dated 12th with a 14 day deadline, so I literally received it on the last day of the deadline. I called the firm and said I wouldn't know what this is regarding. They called me more or less a liar for saying I never received a Notice to owner, Witness statement etc pp and that I would have to pay in full or they recovered my vehicle the same night. I said good luck and hung up. Rang the TEC and managed to file a TE7 and TE9 before 4pm, so was able to sleep without worrying about my van (there is probably little to worry about my van anyway because I use it for the trade and apparently they are not allowed to remove it if below a certain value). However, I didn't mention in the TE7 that my address changed, because I didn't add one and one together until recently. I thought I just never received those letters due to a drunk postman. All i said was that I never received a reply to my original appeal from March/April 14 and that I just received the Notice of Enforcement, which is why I am filing TE9 & TE7

Haven't heard anything from them since filing those documents, so thought great it must have been successful. Now, 2 months later (28th March) I received a Removal of Goods notice, so emailed the TEC straight away, as couldn't get hold of anyone over phone. I thought the bailiffs are just acting unlawfully without the LA even enforcing it anymore (wouldn't be the first time in history), so wasn't too stressed to find out. Today, after having almost forgotton about it again, I received a reply from TEC saying that the County Court Officer rejected my TE7 and that I would have been informed by letter on the 20th of April (I never received anything!), the guy attached the N244 to the email with instructions on how to fill it out and that I would also have to state that I wish to apply for leave to file an application to review the Court Officer's decision outside the 14 days of service, because...(valid reasons go here). No hearing £50, with hearing £155. Then I looked at the bailiff letter again (£277) and thought I can't afford spending £50. What if they think it is strange that, again, he is filing an out of time stating he hadn't received a letter of refusal? Let alone would I be able to afford £155 in one go, so I thought maybe I can arrange installments with the bailiffs (Frankly I am feeling a bit helpless at this point). Called them and asked if we can arrange for 46.16 every month for 6 months. He said no, but we can do 46.16 every week. wow. hefty.

Also I asked him for my warrant number and details and he said I would have to write to them with a stamped envelope for them to send this to me as he wouldn't have it in front of him. Then I got worried, because I knew it would take a while and they can just turn up in the meantime, so I agreed to pay the first installment and pay all next installments every Friday with the next one due next week. If I miss a payment then they add another £230 for the enforcement officer to come around.

Then I started googling refusal of TE7 and found this thread (I know I should have done this before :sad: ) But at least I could always do a charge back?

If I ring the TEC tomorrow to find out date and address on the warrant and if it turns out that it was changed to my new address even though they had my address from my initial appeal is there a chance of stopping this? Or could the LA simply say we were under the impression that you moved from the address we wrote to in March 14 to the one that the DVLA gave them in May 14 (presuming it was that month, as must have been prior to the change).

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

bigkahuna666 · June 10, 2015

Hi Everyone!

I just joined the forum as I have just gone through the same/very similar scenario as shazbazz and I was hoping you guys could help me come to a similar happy ending.

here is the scenario:

06/03/14 paid for parking but parked on resident bay without realising :/ Issued a PCN on windscreen, which I then appealed against online based on the grounds that regardless of having a ticket or being in a residents bay without permit, I should have 20min for loading/unloading in any type of bay, as outlined on the Southwark website and since I was loading/unloading the parking restrictions should allow an exemption either way. In reply to my challenge I was told that they would re-consider their decision if I supplied a delivery note. At this point I want to mention that I supplied my current address online when I made the appeal and they replied to my current address requesting the said document in order to re-consider their decision.

After sending my reply I realised that I had not changed my address with DVLA (moved to current address end of Jan 14) so informed DVLA around May 2014 and received my new V5 in June 2014, actual date on V5 next to document number shows 20 06 14. I did not think much of it at the time, as I thought it would not matter since the LA already had my address that I provided on my initial appeal and they already replied to this address, so thought they would do the same when responding to my next letter.

However, I never heard anything again from them, so I thought they accepted my further letter and changed their decision and removed the PCN. Little did I know. I believe they never received my 2nd letter and then must have requested details from the DVLA before the address got changed (if they even bothered paying the £35 to the DVLA to get my address, they might have even used the details they had on the system from a previous PCN I got in Southwark), so I haven't actually heard anything right until March this year (26/03/15), when I received a Notice of Enforcement. The dubious thing about this letter was that it was delivered Friday the 26th, but dated 12th with a 14 day deadline, so I literally received it on the last day of the deadline. I called the firm and said I wouldn't know what this is regarding. They called me more or less a liar for saying I never received a Notice to owner, Witness statement etc pp and that I would have to pay in full or they recovered my vehicle the same night. I said good luck and hung up. Rang the TEC and managed to file a TE7 and TE9 before 4pm, so was able to sleep without worrying about my van (there is probably little to worry about my van anyway because I use it for the trade and apparently they are not allowed to remove it if below a certain value). However, I didn't mention in the TE7 that my address changed, because I didn't add one and one together until recently. I thought I just never received those letters due to a drunk postman. All i said was that I never received a reply to my original appeal from March/April 14 and that I just received the Notice of Enforcement, which is why I am filing TE9 & TE7

Haven't heard anything from them since filing those documents, so thought great it must have been successful. Now, 2 months later (28th March) I received a Removal of Goods notice, so emailed the TEC straight away, as couldn't get hold of anyone over phone. I thought the bailiffs are just acting unlawfully without the LA even enforcing it anymore (wouldn't be the first time in history), so wasn't too stressed to find out. Today, after having almost forgotton about it again, I received a reply from TEC saying that the County Court Officer rejected my TE7 and that I would have been informed by letter on the 20th of April (I never received anything!), the guy attached the N244 to the email with instructions on how to fill it out and that I would also have to state that I wish to apply for leave to file an application to review the Court Officer's decision outside the 14 days of service, because...(valid reasons go here). No hearing £50, with hearing £155. Then I looked at the bailiff letter again (£277) and thought I can't afford spending £50. What if they think it is strange that, again, he is filing an out of time stating he hadn't received a letter of refusal? Let alone would I be able to afford £155 in one go, so I thought maybe I can arrange installments with the bailiffs (Frankly I am feeling a bit helpless at this point). Called them and asked if we can arrange for 46.16 every month for 6 months. He said no, but we can do 46.16 every week. wow. hefty.

Also I asked him for my warrant number and details and he said I would have to write to them with a stamped envelope for them to send this to me as he wouldn't have it in front of him. Then I got worried, because I knew it would take a while and they can just turn up in the meantime, so I agreed to pay the first installment and pay all next installments every Friday with the next one due next week. If I miss a payment then they add another £230 for the enforcement officer to come around.

Then I started googling refusal of TE7 and found this thread (I know I should have done this before :sad: ) But at least I could always do a charge back?

If I ring the TEC tomorrow to find out date and address on the warrant and if it turns out that it was changed to my new address even though they had my address from my initial appeal is there a chance of stopping this? Or could the LA simply say we were under the impression that you moved from the address we wrote to in March 14 to the one that the DVLA gave them in May 14 (presuming it was that month, as must have been prior to the change).

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Edited June 10, 2015 by honeybee13
Unauthorised website removed.

honeybee13 · June 10, 2015

Hello and welcome to CAG.

I've started a new thread for you rather than leaving you on someone else's old one.

My best, HB

honeybee13 · June 10, 2015

Hello and welcome to CAG.

I've started a new thread for you rather than leaving you on someone else's old one.

My best, HB

bigkahuna666 · June 11, 2015

Hi Honeybee,

thanks a lot for that! Probably makes more sense, sorry

bigkahuna666 · June 11, 2015

Hi Honeybee,

thanks a lot for that! Probably makes more sense, sorry

Bailiff Advice · June 11, 2015

The formatting on the forum has changed (at least on my computers anyway) and I am struggling to read your post. Can you please post back with the amount that is being demanded by the enforcement company?

Like many people, you have made an error when completing the Out of Time Application but the good news is that you can still seek a 'review'. Normally this should be done within 14 days of the date of service to avoid the warrant becoming 'live' once again (which is what has happened in your case). However....the 'review' can be requested at ANY time. If you seek a review enforcement will go on hold once again.

Did you receive a copy of LB of Southwark's reply to the Traffic Enforcement Centre?

PS: In the vast majority of cases I do not suggest a 'review' given that in a large percentage of the enquiries that we receive on this subject the Out of Time was submitted following poor internet advice aimed at purely at avoiding bailiff enforcement. In your case, I would suggest a 'review' and I would suggest that it be 'without a hearing' (£50 fee).

Bailiff Advice · June 11, 2015

The formatting on the forum has changed (at least on my computers anyway) and I am struggling to read your post. Can you please post back with the amount that is being demanded by the enforcement company?

Like many people, you have made an error when completing the Out of Time Application but the good news is that you can still seek a 'review'. Normally this should be done within 14 days of the date of service to avoid the warrant becoming 'live' once again (which is what has happened in your case). However....the 'review' can be requested at ANY time. If you seek a review enforcement will go on hold once again.

Did you receive a copy of LB of Southwark's reply to the Traffic Enforcement Centre?

PS: In the vast majority of cases I do not suggest a 'review' given that in a large percentage of the enquiries that we receive on this subject the Out of Time was submitted following poor internet advice aimed at purely at avoiding bailiff enforcement. In your case, I would suggest a 'review' and I would suggest that it be 'without a hearing' (£50 fee).

bigkahuna666 · June 15, 2015

Thank you so much for your quick response and apologies for not replying earlier. I was away over the weekend without any service/internet connection.

Please see answers to your questions below:

The formatting on the forum has changed (at least on my computers anyway) and I am struggling to read your post. Can you please post back with the amount that is being demanded by the enforcement company?

The company is Newlyn and they demand 277 pounds and they will add another 233 pounds or so for the enforcement officer's visit, if I miss a payment (I have been forced/made a first payment under duress of 46.16 pounds before I found this forum and a previous thread by shazbazz) - next payment due this Friday.

Like many people, you have made an error when completing the Out of Time Application but the good news is that you can still seek a 'review'. Normally this should be done within 14 days of the date of service to avoid the warrant becoming 'live' once again (which is what has happened in your case). However....the 'review' can be requested at ANY time. If you seek a review enforcement will go on hold once again.

Will enforcement still go on hold even though I have already made a payment to the bailiffs, therefore arguably already accepted the 'debt'?

Did you receive a copy of LB of Southwark's reply to the Traffic Enforcement Centre?

Please, could you specify what LB means? I never received anything after I sent off my TE7&TE9 other than the Removal of Goods notice recently after they reintroduced enforcement after rejction (the rejection letter was allegedly sent to me on the 20th of April).

Below is the TEC's reply after enquiring about the new enforcement letter:

"Good afternoon,

Your recent application to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement out of time was referred to the Court Officer for a decision without a hearing under Part 75.5 (1) of the Civil Procedure Rules. Your application was refused and a letter was sent to you on 20th April 2015.

The Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) is unable to assist with any queries you may have regarding why the application was refused. Reasons are not held on court record and the Court Officer is not required to give an explanation for refusal. Please be aware that any enforcement action may be reintroduced by the Local Authority pursuing you and the TEC do not have the authority to stop such enforcement action.

If you wish to apply for a review of this decision, you should complete an Application Notice form N244 which is available from our website or from your local County Court. To assist you, I am taking the opportunity to enclose the N244 form with this letter. The application should be filed with the TEC within 14 days of the date of service of the Court Officer’s Order or if your application is late you will need to give reasons why you have failed to file it within the time specified (see Guidance Notes Part 3).

For a review by a District Judge at a hearing to be arranged at your nearest County Court Hearing Centre, the fee payable is £155.00. For a review by a District Judge without a hearing, the fee payable is £50.00. As this application may incur further costs being awarded against you, you are advised to seek legal advice before proceeding.

Payment for the fee, made payable to HMCTS, should be sent with the N244 application. If you cannot afford to pay the fee, you may be able to apply for a fee remission. Information on this together with an application form is provided in booklet EX160A also available on the website or from your local County Court Hearing Centre. Please note a company cannot apply for a fee remission.

Information Notes

Claim No: Give the Penalty Charge Number (PCN) as quoted on the Court Officer’s Order.

Please note that only one PCN may be quoted per application.

Warrant No: Provide the Warrant number if known.

Claimant’s name: Give the name of the Local Authority that issued the Order for Recovery.

Defendant’s name: Give your name (or company name if PCN is registered for a company)

Date: Give the date you are completing the N244 Application Notice.

Main body of the form:

Part 1: Give your full name or the company trading name. Please note that this has to be the ‘respondent’ name against which the PCN was registered (see the Court Officer’s Order if unsure).

Part 2: Tick the box stating defendant.

Part 3:

• You should state “I wish to apply for a review of the Court Officer’s Order”. (Please note the application will not be accepted unless this specific statement has been written.) You will also need to give the reason for making the application.

• If the N244 Application Notice is not being filed with the TEC within the 14 day time limit, you will also need to state “I wish to apply for leave to file an application to review the Court Officer’s decision outside the 14 days of service because…” and include full details of why you were unable to do this on time. Please note your application may be refused by the District Judge if it is received outside the 14 days and no reasons have been specified. If there is insufficient room, please continue on a separate sheet and state “please see attached”.

Part 4: Not applicable.

Part 5: You may request your application to be dealt with either at a hearing at your local County Court Hearing Centre (fee £155.00) or without a hearing (fee £50.00). Please tick the appropriate box to indicate your choice. Please note a telephone hearing is not an option for this application.

Parts 6 - 9: You are not required to respond to these enquiries.

Part 10:

• If you attach paperwork in support of your application, please tick the box marked “the attached witness statement” and attach the appropriate documents.

• If you wish to rely on your particulars of claim or defence, please tick the box marked “the statement of case“.

• If you would like to give more information/evidence below, please tick the box marked “the evidence set out in the box below” and complete this box. If you provide information in this box you will also need to complete the ‘Statement of Truth’ within it.

Part 11: Please complete this section with your signature, date and full postal address.

If you are acting on behalf of a company please also give your position within the company.

This application should be completed by the named respondent (i.e. the ‘defendant’). The application can only be completed and signed by a ‘Litigation friend’ if the respondent lacks mental capacity within the meaning of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 (see Part 21 (children and protected parties) of the Civil Procedure Rules). Please seek legal advice if you require clarification of this procedure.

The above instructions are intended ONLY as a guide for completing the N244 Application Notice. Please note that Court staff are not legally trained. If you need legal advice you should contact a solicitor or a Citizen’s Advice Bureau."

PS: In the vast majority of cases I do not suggest a 'review' given that in a large percentage of the enquiries that we receive on this subject the Out of Time was submitted following poor internet advice aimed at purely at avoiding bailiff enforcement. In your case, I would suggest a 'review' and I would suggest that it be 'without a hearing' (£50 fee).

This fills me with hope! I will do so today. I have also just spoken to the TEC and enquired about my warrant details. The woman said the warrant was issued on the 6th of Oct 14 (to my old address) and then re-issued (she used the word re-issued) on the 27th Nov 14 to my current address. Just to recap I lived at my current address since 28th of Jan 14 and applied for an address change with DVLA in around May 14 and was issued with a new V5 on the 20th of June 14. The LA replied to my original appeal to my current address in around March/April.

Now I have 2 questions:

1. Will I be able to get my 46.16 pounds back or offset against a balance if my review (N244) gets accepted? Or would I be able to ask my bank to do a chargeback since it was a payment under duress and I shouldn't have had to pay in the first place considering it was a procedural impropriety on LA's side?

2. Will I be able to get my £50 review fee back, seeing that court charges are usually covered by the losing party, in this case the LA?

Your input/ help would be much appreciated.

bigkahuna666 · June 15, 2015

Thank you so much for your quick response and apologies for not replying earlier. I was away over the weekend without any service/internet connection.

Please see answers to your questions below:

The formatting on the forum has changed (at least on my computers anyway) and I am struggling to read your post. Can you please post back with the amount that is being demanded by the enforcement company?

The company is Newlyn and they demand 277 pounds and they will add another 233 pounds or so for the enforcement officer's visit, if I miss a payment (I have been forced/made a first payment under duress of 46.16 pounds before I found this forum and a previous thread by shazbazz) - next payment due this Friday.

Like many people, you have made an error when completing the Out of Time Application but the good news is that you can still seek a 'review'. Normally this should be done within 14 days of the date of service to avoid the warrant becoming 'live' once again (which is what has happened in your case). However....the 'review' can be requested at ANY time. If you seek a review enforcement will go on hold once again.

Will enforcement still go on hold even though I have already made a payment to the bailiffs, therefore arguably already accepted the 'debt'?

Did you receive a copy of LB of Southwark's reply to the Traffic Enforcement Centre?

Please, could you specify what LB means? I never received anything after I sent off my TE7&TE9 other than the Removal of Goods notice recently after they reintroduced enforcement after rejction (the rejection letter was allegedly sent to me on the 20th of April).

Below is the TEC's reply after enquiring about the new enforcement letter:

"Good afternoon,

Your recent application to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement out of time was referred to the Court Officer for a decision without a hearing under Part 75.5 (1) of the Civil Procedure Rules. Your application was refused and a letter was sent to you on 20th April 2015.

The Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) is unable to assist with any queries you may have regarding why the application was refused. Reasons are not held on court record and the Court Officer is not required to give an explanation for refusal. Please be aware that any enforcement action may be reintroduced by the Local Authority pursuing you and the TEC do not have the authority to stop such enforcement action.

If you wish to apply for a review of this decision, you should complete an Application Notice form N244 which is available from our website or from your local County Court. To assist you, I am taking the opportunity to enclose the N244 form with this letter. The application should be filed with the TEC within 14 days of the date of service of the Court Officer’s Order or if your application is late you will need to give reasons why you have failed to file it within the time specified (see Guidance Notes Part 3).

For a review by a District Judge at a hearing to be arranged at your nearest County Court Hearing Centre, the fee payable is £155.00. For a review by a District Judge without a hearing, the fee payable is £50.00. As this application may incur further costs being awarded against you, you are advised to seek legal advice before proceeding.

Payment for the fee, made payable to HMCTS, should be sent with the N244 application. If you cannot afford to pay the fee, you may be able to apply for a fee remission. Information on this together with an application form is provided in booklet EX160A also available on the website or from your local County Court Hearing Centre. Please note a company cannot apply for a fee remission.

Information Notes

Claim No: Give the Penalty Charge Number (PCN) as quoted on the Court Officer’s Order.

Please note that only one PCN may be quoted per application.

Warrant No: Provide the Warrant number if known.

Claimant’s name: Give the name of the Local Authority that issued the Order for Recovery.

Defendant’s name: Give your name (or company name if PCN is registered for a company)

Date: Give the date you are completing the N244 Application Notice.

Main body of the form:

Part 1: Give your full name or the company trading name. Please note that this has to be the ‘respondent’ name against which the PCN was registered (see the Court Officer’s Order if unsure).

Part 2: Tick the box stating defendant.

Part 3:

• You should state “I wish to apply for a review of the Court Officer’s Order”. (Please note the application will not be accepted unless this specific statement has been written.) You will also need to give the reason for making the application.

• If the N244 Application Notice is not being filed with the TEC within the 14 day time limit, you will also need to state “I wish to apply for leave to file an application to review the Court Officer’s decision outside the 14 days of service because…” and include full details of why you were unable to do this on time. Please note your application may be refused by the District Judge if it is received outside the 14 days and no reasons have been specified. If there is insufficient room, please continue on a separate sheet and state “please see attached”.

Part 4: Not applicable.

Part 5: You may request your application to be dealt with either at a hearing at your local County Court Hearing Centre (fee £155.00) or without a hearing (fee £50.00). Please tick the appropriate box to indicate your choice. Please note a telephone hearing is not an option for this application.

Parts 6 - 9: You are not required to respond to these enquiries.

Part 10:

• If you attach paperwork in support of your application, please tick the box marked “the attached witness statement” and attach the appropriate documents.

• If you wish to rely on your particulars of claim or defence, please tick the box marked “the statement of case“.

• If you would like to give more information/evidence below, please tick the box marked “the evidence set out in the box below” and complete this box. If you provide information in this box you will also need to complete the ‘Statement of Truth’ within it.

Part 11: Please complete this section with your signature, date and full postal address.

If you are acting on behalf of a company please also give your position within the company.

This application should be completed by the named respondent (i.e. the ‘defendant’). The application can only be completed and signed by a ‘Litigation friend’ if the respondent lacks mental capacity within the meaning of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 (see Part 21 (children and protected parties) of the Civil Procedure Rules). Please seek legal advice if you require clarification of this procedure.

The above instructions are intended ONLY as a guide for completing the N244 Application Notice. Please note that Court staff are not legally trained. If you need legal advice you should contact a solicitor or a Citizen’s Advice Bureau."

PS: In the vast majority of cases I do not suggest a 'review' given that in a large percentage of the enquiries that we receive on this subject the Out of Time was submitted following poor internet advice aimed at purely at avoiding bailiff enforcement. In your case, I would suggest a 'review' and I would suggest that it be 'without a hearing' (£50 fee).

This fills me with hope! I will do so today. I have also just spoken to the TEC and enquired about my warrant details. The woman said the warrant was issued on the 6th of Oct 14 (to my old address) and then re-issued (she used the word re-issued) on the 27th Nov 14 to my current address. Just to recap I lived at my current address since 28th of Jan 14 and applied for an address change with DVLA in around May 14 and was issued with a new V5 on the 20th of June 14. The LA replied to my original appeal to my current address in around March/April.

Now I have 2 questions:

1. Will I be able to get my 46.16 pounds back or offset against a balance if my review (N244) gets accepted? Or would I be able to ask my bank to do a chargeback since it was a payment under duress and I shouldn't have had to pay in the first place considering it was a procedural impropriety on LA's side?

2. Will I be able to get my £50 review fee back, seeing that court charges are usually covered by the losing party, in this case the LA?

Your input/ help would be much appreciated.

bigkahuna666 · June 18, 2015

I have written a long statement to put into section number 10 on the n244, but I'm not sure which box to tick? I'm thinking the last one saying written evidence and then sign the statement of truth?

Also it would be great if someone could read it before I send it? I'm worried that I have superfluous information in there that might not be needed in a precise legal argument?

Also, I was wondering if I should just send it to the LA instead to try and save the £50? I'm in Greece at the moment so a postal order to file a review is difficult unless I get in touch with friends. Next instalment is expected tomorrow by the DCA. If I miss it they will add another lump sum for the enforcement officer. If I send it to the LA then at least they realise that I uncovered their game and that I am prepared to go the official route, even to the parliamentary ombudsman. Maybe it would be enoug for them to put enforcement on hold and come to an agreement?

Your input would be much appreciated.

Best,

P

bigkahuna666 · June 18, 2015

I have written a long statement to put into section number 10 on the n244, but I'm not sure which box to tick? I'm thinking the last one saying written evidence and then sign the statement of truth?

Also it would be great if someone could read it before I send it? I'm worried that I have superfluous information in there that might not be needed in a precise legal argument?

Also, I was wondering if I should just send it to the LA instead to try and save the £50? I'm in Greece at the moment so a postal order to file a review is difficult unless I get in touch with friends. Next instalment is expected tomorrow by the DCA. If I miss it they will add another lump sum for the enforcement officer. If I send it to the LA then at least they realise that I uncovered their game and that I am prepared to go the official route, even to the parliamentary ombudsman. Maybe it would be enoug for them to put enforcement on hold and come to an agreement?

Your input would be much appreciated.

Best,

P

Bailiff Advice · June 18, 2015

Please dont post a copy of the forum. I am more than willing to read over it and will get a moderator to contact you.

You cannot send a copy to the council. It has to be sent to the Traffic Enforcement Centre. Can you remind me of the date that the Rejection was served upon you.

Bailiff Advice · June 18, 2015

Please dont post a copy of the forum. I am more than willing to read over it and will get a moderator to contact you.

You cannot send a copy to the council. It has to be sent to the Traffic Enforcement Centre. Can you remind me of the date that the Rejection was served upon you.

bigkahuna666 · July 17, 2015

Dear Bailiff Advice,

I just realised that my messages never reached you, as I am not able to send PMs. Is there any other means to get in touch so you could read and advice me on my draft?

The rejection was allegedly served on the 20th of April

bigkahuna666 · July 17, 2015

Dear Bailiff Advice,

I just realised that my messages never reached you, as I am not able to send PMs. Is there any other means to get in touch so you could read and advice me on my draft?

The rejection was allegedly served on the 20th of April

honeybee13 · July 17, 2015

Dear Bailiff Advice,

I just realised that my messages never reached you, as I am not able to send PMs. Is there any other means to get in touch so you could read and advice me on my draft?

The rejection was allegedly served on the 20th of April

Hello there.

We don't recommend advice by PM at CAG. If you take out personal details, people here can review your draft and advise accordingly. You should be fine.

HB

honeybee13 · July 17, 2015

Dear Bailiff Advice,

I just realised that my messages never reached you, as I am not able to send PMs. Is there any other means to get in touch so you could read and advice me on my draft?

The rejection was allegedly served on the 20th of April

Hello there.

We don't recommend advice by PM at CAG. If you take out personal details, people here can review your draft and advise accordingly. You should be fine.

HB

bigkahuna666 · July 17, 2015

Thanks for letting me know honeybee!

I went on holiday to Greece I was never able to seek a review (N244)

as I wasn't able to send the £50 fee by postal order,

which meant I had to bite the bullet and keep paying the bayliffs evvery Friday and

today was the last payment of £46.20.

The original demand of £277.00 is therfeore completed and at least I can now sleep again without fear.

Now I wish to proceed with the pay & claim procedure, which seems to be the only(?) option left to me.

I guess this procedure would not require the N244 anymore and instead I will have to complain to the LA about their procedure,

then (if complain route exhausted without a satisfying outcome) lay out the facts to the parliamentory ombudsman,

and/or then file the debt with the small claims service?

Below is the letter I composed for Council X. I know it is quite lengthy and English is also not my first language, so I might be repeating myself and/or not express myself eloquently enough/as good as it could/should be from a legal terms point of view. Also, evn though I am trying to stay factual I know that my anger and frustration transpires in certain areas.

It would be amazing if you could advice me on the format that this complaint should take and whether this is the right route to get my money back.

I look forward to your input.

Dear Council X,

this complaint is about a PCN (XX0000000).

I have reason to belief that the enforcement procedure was unlawful and if this complaint is not addressed, handled, and solved adequately I will have to bring this forward to the parliamentory ombudsman and/or the small claims court.

The present facts are as follows:

As I already explained in my original TE7&TE9 on the 26/03/15 I feel I have not been given any opportunity to resolve this matter. At the time of filing the TE7&TE9 I was unaware of what the actual reason for not receiving any correspondence (NTO, CC, NOE etc.) from the LA/TEC was, so I was only able to state that I had not received anything. The fact that I had not received a statement of Truth from the local authority along with an official refusal letter and INSTEAD receiving an Order of Recovery 2 months later made me start to investigate myself and after speaking to the TEC over the phone I found out 2 crucial pieces of information.

It turns out that the warrant was issued at the TEC by you on the 06/10/14 (to my old address, XXX) and then re-issued on the 27/11/14 to my current address YYY. I already lived at my current address since Feb 2014 and applied for an address change with the DVLA in around May 2014 and was issued with a new V5 on 20/06/14. Council X even replied to my original (informal) appeal to my current address on the 08/04/14 (document at hand for evidence), requesting further information in support of my appeal, but after my reply all further correspondence seem to have gone to my old address (NTO successfully retrieved from this address and also at hand as evidence).

As far as I am aware the LA ARE permitted to apply to TEC for permission to AMEND the address on a warrant, BUT such applications may ONLY be made if the

debtor's address had changed AFTER the date that the warrant had been issued. In that way it would rightly be assumed that the debtor would have received the Notice to Owner, Charge Certificate, Order for Recovery (and very lightly an initial letter from the bailiff).

However, if, as in my case, the debtor's address changed BEFORE the date of the warrant (receipt of Council X's initial response on the 08/04/14, bank statements, new V5 from 20/06/14 are available as evidence) then clearly I would not have been at that address (XXX) and therefore would have been unable to respond to any statutory notices.

Furthermore I believe that when a local authority applies to the TEC for permission to amend the address they are required to sign a form certifying that the address for the debtor had changed AFTER the date of the warrant.

In this particular case, you already replied via letter to my initial appeal to my current address on the 08/04/14, therefore wouldn't have been able to certify that my address changed AFTER issuing the warrant (06/10/14) and therfore made a false statement.

If this was not serious enough, you then applied to TEC in November (27/11/14) for permission to amend the warrant and in doing so, appear to have been less than truthful when signing the application to amend the warrant.

And now it actually also becomes clear why I was not provided with a Statement Of Truth that was allegedly sent to me on the 20/04/15 after my TE7&TE9 have been refused, because when the TEC submitted the TE7 and TE9 to you, you are ONLY supposed to consider whether on my TE7 I had provided a GOOD ENOUGH REASON for sending the form late. As I had moved address the reason that I would have given would have been excellent. Unfortunately because I was unaware of the actual reason for why I hadn't received any letters, I was only able to say that I didn't receive any letters, but you on the other hand knew exactly why I hadn't received any letters, so therefore should have been accepting my out of time. Serious questions need to be raised as to WHY you have seen fit to ask TEC to refuse to grant permission to file a witness statement late when you were already aware of the situation and have known that I could not have possibly received any statutory notices.

In my opinion you refused and never sent a Statement of Truth, because you knew that what you have done when re-issueing the warrant and making false statements was unlawful and instead tried to prey on the uninformed and re-introduced enforcement. Failure to provide the respondent with a copy of the Statement of Truth is reason alone to make a formal complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman.

I have been forced/made payment of £277.00 under duress to the DCA Newlyn, which I should not have had to. They even refused to give me any details on the warrant and said I would have to send a letter with a prepaid envelope in order to find out, but in the meantime they would send their enforcement officer to seize my van and threatened to add another £233 on top of the £277 for doing so.

I hope this matter will be resolved in an appropriate manner, without me having to seek legal support. I am not shy of presenting the facts to the parliamentary ombudsman and filing a claim at the small claims court.

Best wishes,

name goes here

bigkahuna666 · July 17, 2015