ill / unfair treatment under section 44

[mikv]

I have been detained under section 44 with what I believe is ehlers-danlos-syndrome and wrongly being interpted as mental illness- they want to do tests but the problem is there is no one in Scotland really ualified to diagnose it . I am already physically much worse which in turn is being interpted as yet more mental issues and can barely type or talk to communicate as well.

 

From http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ehlers-danlos-syndrome/Pages/Introduction.aspx

There are no tests available to confirm the diagnosis or distinguish between hypermobile EDS and joint hypermobility syndrome. The diagnosis is made based on a physical examination and a person's medical history.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/260562/UK_Strategy_for_Rare_

 

Rare diseases are covered in

undergraduate and postgraduate medical

training in the UK. But it is unrealistic to

expect primary care staff such as GPs (who

are very often the first point of contact) to

recognise all rare diseases. Many diseases

are so rare that a GP is unlikely to see a

single case in their whole career. Timely and

accurate referral is therefore a crucial skill

 

Can any one tell me what criteria allows drs with no previous -or very little to fairly assess a rare disease with high rate of misdiagnosis instead of allowing them to get referred or go pvt ? ( esp in the highlands were there is 0)

 

If its possible for someone detained under section 44 to seek help privately for assessment if the resources req to rule out a condition are unvailable in scotland esp if there is proof /

reason to doubt a mental illness ?

 

thanks

 

mike

[BazzaS]

I have been detained under section 44 with what I believe is ehlers-danlos-syndrome and wrongly being interpted as mental illness- they want to do tests but the problem is there is no one in Scotland really ualified to diagnose it . I am already physically much worse which in turn is being interpted as yet more mental issues and can barely type or talk to communicate as well.

 

From http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ehlers-danlos-syndrome/Pages/Introduction.aspx

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/260562/UK_Strategy_for_Rare_

 

 

 

Can any one tell me what criteria allows drs with no previous -or very little to fairly assess a rare disease with high rate of misdiagnosis instead of allowing them to get referred or go pvt ? ( esp in the highlands were there is 0)

 

If its possible for someone detained under section 44 to seek help privately for assessment if the resources req to rule out a condition are unvailable in scotland esp if there is proof /

reason to doubt a mental illness ?

 

thanks

 

mike

 

What is your psychiatric diagnosis?

& can EDS present as such?

 

You note "There are no tests available to confirm the diagnosis or distinguish between hypermobile EDS and joint hypermobility syndrome" but that doesn't mean :

"EDS and your psychiatric condition can't be differentiated" - they may or may not be distinguishable.

 

Have you spoken to Ehlers-Danlos Support UK?

http://www.ehlers-danlos.org

 

If your psychiatric condition has never been associated with EDS you may struggle to show that you don't have both separately.

 

If your psychiatric condition may be caused by the autonomic dysfunction of EDS : I'd push for a referral to one of the UK's EDS specialist centres.

You can always remind the psychiatrists (and then the Tribunal!) "are you sure you have excluded organic disease such as EDS with autonomic dysfunction"?

 

Were you advised of "the availability of independent advocacy services under section 259 of this Act", and have you contacted them / asked for them to be contacted?

[my-spirit-soars-free]

You have the right to appeal to the tribunal for revocation of the order. Your wish to seek alternative treatment elsewhere may be something that will influence the tribunal to change the order? If you present a well thought out plan that can only help your case. http://www.nes-mha.scot.nhs.uk/stdc/appeal.htm

 

As a general principle, you have the right to be involved in your treatment decisions. The fact that you have been found to lack capacity on the subject of your admission for treatment does not mean that you have no right to be involved in other decisions once you have been admitted. http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/ethics/mental-capacity/mental-capacity-scotland

 

Having said that, it can be very difficult to change doctors minds once they have decided that there is a mental condition, and there does seem to be the view that refusal to accept that there is a mental condition proves that there is a mental condition.

[mikv]

What is your psychiatric diagnosis?

delusional..about my illness

& can EDS present as such?

why not ?

don't all people with misdagnosed invisible / rare illness feel strongly about something that is so widely abused & neglected?

The average EDS can take 10yrs or more and multiple docs so doesn't that persistance indicate a firm belief - that until diagnosed - could be considered delusional too ?

 

You note "There are no tests available to confirm the diagnosis or distinguish between hypermobile EDS and joint hypermobility syndrome" but that doesn't mean :"EDS and your psychiatric condition can't be differentiated" - they may or may not be distinguishable.

 

True, but if that firm belief is shared by a leading expert on EDS and the mayo clinic doesnt it change things ?

Have you spoken to Ehlers-Danlos Support UK?

http://www.ehlers-danlos.org

 

No, just the HMSA

 

If your psychiatric condition has never been associated with EDS you may struggle to show that you don't have both separately.

Even if I did does my " conditio " really require this ?

 

12 yr interval since last admission does not fit atypical pattern of the mentally ill ( esp if I am such a risk having travelled to peru / usa,used needles etc )While the last 5 I have been housebound alone with no pysch aid at all so why is it I am suddenly at risk now,when there has been no prior evidence and in fact the opposite ( use of kneewalker as aid instead of scooter before I detriorated ) ?

 

Were you advised of "the availability of independent advocacy services under section 259 of this Act", and have you contacted them / asked for them to be contacted?

 

yup

 

mike

[mikv]

If your psychiatric condition may be caused by the autonomic dysfunction of EDS : I'd push for a referral to one of the UK's EDS specialist centres.

You can always remind the psychiatrists (and then the Tribunal!) "are you sure you have excluded organic disease such as EDS with autonomic dysfunction"?

 

Yes, see here pg26

 

There is so little research into eds - mental illness , but the few are interesting

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25459977

 

 

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/200/6/508

 

" Differences in brain structure were not due to overt psychopathology (the hypermobile group only trended toward higher anxiety scores) or basal physiology (no difference was observed in cardiovascular measures at rest). "

 

" Limitations to our study include the use of a non-clinical sample; interestingly, neuroimaging studies of clinical anxiety groups rarely report enlarged amygdala, suggesting that hypermobility is a distinct phenotype or that amygdala enlargement might be protective in our non-clinical group. "

 

mike

[mikv]

If I was to change my citzenship how would it effect my detainment ?

 

https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality/overview

When you can give up your citizenship

 

You can only give up your British citizenship or status if either of the following apply:

 

• you already have another citizenship or nationality
  
• you’re going to get another citizenship or nationality after giving up your British citizenship or status
  

You must also be:

 

• aged 18 or over (unless you’re under 18 and married)
  
• of sound mind (unless it’s decided that it’s in your best interest)
  

 

 

Can I leave hospital to receive treatment / therapy nearby?

 

m

[mikv]

Heres the whole lead up to how my GP abused my trust and continually lead me into beliving I wasn't at risk.

 

The whole time I corresponded with my GP he never once mentioned or asked anything to lead me to suspect my mental well being was being questioned( if he had i would have risked

travel in order to get better) Although i knew there was a good chance he might assume

i was at risk after he read my history ( which is why I tried to dissuade him) I didn't

get any hint it bothered him either which you can see from letter he sent me on nov14

saying he was happy to leave things( despite having 4 - 5 months in which to read my

history )

 

After I had seen Crisis resolution team he sent out in SWAT force as though I were

terrorist I agreed to see the CPN until I found out it was Dr xxx himself who arranged it. Naturally as I had no idea what was going I wanted to find out why so I wrote. His response as it had been before was to say everything would remain as it was. ( Something interpted as meaning prior to subsequent events ) although now on reflection I realise could have of meant the opposite too.

 

It wasn't long after this and what I assumed had been resolved I received another

unannounced visit from the CPN and once again I was left confused given what my GP had said. I phoned Mr xxx 2 wks later after sending a fax to my GP and informed him that I had told my GP I did not require his services.When I did not recieve any word from either or a visit from the mho ( as required by law for detainment ) I assumed matters were finally settled only ( without any prior warning ) to be detained .

Edited June 10, 2015 by honeybee13
Names removed.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've removed a couple of names from your post above, to keep this anonymous for you.

 

HB

[mikv]

The fact that you have been found to lack capacity on the subject of your admission for treatment does not mean that you have no right to be involved in other decisions once you have been admitted. http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/ethics/mental-capacity/mental-capacity-scotland

 

How could I lack capacity on the subject of my admission if I wrote to my GP X2 about it ?

 

He obviously understood me because he replied - as did the cpn on the phone

[BazzaS]

How could I lack capacity on the subject of my admission if I wrote to my GP X2 about it ?

 

He obviously understood me because he replied - as did the cpn on the phone

 

Dear mikv,

I am writing to you about the detection and sub-atomic properties of the Higgs Boson.

 

I know absolutely nothing about the detection and sub-atomic properties of the Higgs Boson, and couldn't hold a conversation about it nor to (have enough understanding & INSIGHT) have capacity to discuss it in a meaningful way.

 

Yet I can write to you about it.

I can write the same again, without increasing my capacity.

 

The fact that I can write twice (or more!) doesn't affect if I have capacity or not.

 

Similarly, you writing twice to your GP doesn't demonstrate capacity on its own : it is what you wrote that will matter.

 

You've also asked about a change in citizenship:

A) you've already noted that you won't be able to change citizenship easily if there is suggestion you aren't of sound mind

B) if you were a citizen of a different country it wouldn't stop your detention under mental health legislation (though those detaining you would be prudent to advise the embassy / consulate of your country of citizenship, so they can provide you with consular assistance - they might even decide between them it was in your interests to be transferred to a mental health facility in the country of your citizenship, for example)

[mikv]

Dear mikv,

I am writing to you about the detection and sub-atomic properties of the Higgs Boson.

 

I know absolutely nothing about the detection and sub-atomic properties of the Higgs Boson, and couldn't hold a conversation about it nor to (have enough understanding & INSIGHT) have capacity to discuss it in a meaningful way.

 

Yet I can write to you about it.

I can write the same again, without increasing my capacity.

 

The fact that I can write twice (or more!) doesn't affect if I have capacity or not.

 

Similarly, you writing twice to your GP doesn't demonstrate capacity on its own : it is what you wrote that will matter.

 

It's a good thing I have evidence then ; )

 

You've also asked about a change in citizenship:

A) you've already noted that you won't be able to change citizenship easily if there is suggestion you aren't of sound mind

B) if you were a citizen of a different country it wouldn't stop your detention under mental health legislation (though those detaining you would be prudent to advise the embassy / consulate of your country of citizenship, so they can provide you with consular assistance - they might even decide between them it was in your interests to be transferred to a mental health facility in the country of your citizenship, for example)

 

When you say sound of mind I assume you mean capacity ?

 

thanks again,

 

m

[BazzaS]

 

 

When you say sound of mind I assume you mean capacity ?

 

thanks again,

 

 

Why would you assume I meant 'capacity' rather than 'of sound mind', when I am replying to YOUR use of "of sound mind".

 

If I was to change my citzenship how would it effect my detainment ?

 

https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality/overview

When you can give up your citizenship

 

You can only give up your British citizenship or status if either of the following apply:

 

• you already have another citizenship or nationality
  
• you’re going to get another citizenship or nationality after giving up your British citizenship or status
  

You must also be:

 

• aged 18 or over (unless you’re under 18 and married)
  
• of sound mind (unless it’s decided that it’s in your best interest)
  

 

 

So, it may be that I should mean "capacity" rather than "of sound mind", but only if your post that I was referring to should mean the same!.

 

So, are you wrongly assuming that I (and thus YOU) meant capacity, or did YOU get it wrong in your previous post?

 

BTW, a Tribunal might take into account (when deciding if you have capacity / suffer from a mental health problem that you have little insight into) things like "I considered changing my nationality to escape being sectioned" - they may decide it isn't an entirely rational response ..........

 

How are you getting on with:

a) the independent advocacy service, and

b) The Mental Health Review Tribunal?.

[mikv]

 

BTW, a Tribunal might take into account (when deciding if you have capacity / suffer from a mental health problem that you have little insight into) things like "I considered changing my nationality to escape being sectioned" - they may decide it isn't an entirely rational response ..........

 

TBH that was going to be my final resort if all else failed.

How are you getting on with:

a) the independent advocacy service, and

b) The Mental Health Review Tribunal?.

A ) not good - the Tribunal is a week and the solicitor has still no showed despite advocate recommending him

B) ^

 

I had the mho here today and it seems they have decided to put me on compulsary too.

 

I asked him about getting an interim to have more time as the solicitor still hasnt showed, any thoughts on this ?

 

Also having a real problem with doc here etc scheduling meetings without informing me in advance so there is no way for me to prepare and have my advocate here as a witness.

 

mike

[mikv]

I just had a look at the law societys site here and cant even find a solicitor with experince in mental health or negligence for where I am..

 

m

[mikv]

Any one tell me how recent a psychiatrist must have seen a patient in order to approve a short-term detention certificate ...?

 

Short-term detention certificate

 

(a) When might a short-term detention certificate be granted?A doctor with experience in diagnosing and treating mental disorder(a psychiatrist), who has examined you, may grant a short-term detention certificate where he/she believes it is likely that

 

No psychiatrist examined me prior to detainment

 

Dr M (pysch2) saw me briefly as part of the crisis team not as patient

Dr T (pysch1) who Dr Shi8 ( gp) contacted for approval had not seen as a patient in 5 yrs

Dr Shi8 had only seen me once as a patient in 5 yrs re physical for Atos

 

An MHO has a duty under sections 45 and 61 of the Act respectively to interview a patient when short-term detention or an application for a compulsory treatment order is being considered, unless it is impracticable to do so.

MHO did not engage me at any point till after detainment in an informal manner re compulsory treatment order.

MHO did not inform me Section 61(2)©(i) of my rights in relation to the application for a compulsory treatment order.

MHO did not provide me with information on the role of the named person as suits my needs or anything else .

[mikv]

Where did Bazza Brush go ?

 

m

[mikv]

Small Update

 

Apparently the fact my original solicitor no showed for 4wks ( the one my advocate recommended )has put my appeal against my detainment in jepodary because it will end soon and the compulsary treatment their making an application for will have began. ( the one for 6 months ) My new solicitor will make an application for the tribunal next Thurs but at such late notice there is no gurantees and my evidence ( which I've been told would prob win the case ) would be meaningless...

 

A Worried Mike

[mikv]

I have my tribunal tomorrow to decide my fate and it seems my evidence may not be enough afterall...

 

m