CP PLUS - Parking Charge - Seeking assistance from the experts

[DrJolly]

Good afternoon,

 

I have been tagged at the MOTO Birch West services from 05/05/15 12:02 to 05/05/15 14:54.

 

The letter states that the 'free parking period' is 2 hours, of which i extended from this. This has never happened to me before and i was totally unaware this was even possible, especially when spending money within the establishment.

 

I had arranged a business meeting at the services, bought 3 coffees in total (which i have receipts for) and stayed for the duration in a business meeting.

 

Total fine: £60... extending to £100 if not paid within 28 days.

 

For me, i had absolutely no idea there were charges applicable and if i had seen signage, this would not have been a problem to pay as it would have gone on my expenses for work. I find this absolutely disgraceful that this has now extended to my personal finance and would appreciate all support in hitting back at these bullies.

 

Any other details required, please let me know.

 

Regards

Edited June 6, 2015 by honeybee13
Name removed.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

The forum guys should be along later with advice for you. They'll know what to do and I very much doubt they will tell you to pay.

 

In the meantime, I've removed your name as a precaution, to keep this confidential.

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

And here is a list of abbreviations that are used on the forum, which I hope will help you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?168275-Posting-in-this-Forum-please-read%281-Viewing%29-nbsp

 

HB

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG. I am assuming this is an ANPR capture and the letter is the Notice to Keeper. Be assured that this is not a fine just an 'invitation to pay' of which you won't be wanting to.

 

CP+ are members of the BPA so you can use the POPLA appeals service AFTER you have appealed to CP+ and been rejected (as you surely will)

 

Your first job is to do the 'soft' appeal. This can be anything you like as all you want from them is the POPLA code which costs them when you do the full appeal. It is the full appeal that you lay out your case fully.

 

Even if the full appeal is lost, CP+ would still have to go to court to get you to pay BUT as far as my knowledge goes, they took a grand total of 15 cases to court in 2014. Speaks volumes!

[DrJolly]

Hello.

 

By ANPR i assume you mean by camera and yes is the answer.

 

The letter states: "The driver of this vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full within the time frame stipulated above. As we do not know the driver's name or current postal address, if you were not the driver t the time, you should provide us with the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to the,. If the vehicle has been hired, please provide a signed statement confirming the hirer's name and address and include a copy of both the hire agreement and their statement of liability."

 

Other thoughts on the matter:

 

- The letter is dated almost a month later than the offence, what sort of time frames do they have to stick to?

 

I will soft appeal to the letter then feedback, once it has been rejected.

 

Thanks.

[honeybee13]

I don't think you have to tell them who the driver was, hopefully someone will confirm or deny this.

 

HB

[silverfox1961]

I think they may be out of time. PoFA 2012 stipulates 14 days from contravention for them to contact you

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9155/guidance-unpaid-parking-charges.pdf

[DrJolly]

Sounds promising:

 

6.2 Where a contravention is detected remotely (such as by cameras), the

landholder may request registered keeper data from the DVLA

immediately and must write to the registered keeper within 14 days

seeking details of the driver or payment of the parking charge.

 

Would it be advisable to appeal, detailing nothing but the reference as request and the above as my reason for not paying the charge?

[silverfox1961]

You could try it but never name the driver and inform them that as they are out of time, you will not be adding to their Christmas bonus this year.

[dx100uk]

hope they didn't use the word 'fine'?

 

 

dx

[f16]

DrJolly; Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

The date of the "offence" was 05/05/15.

What date did the letter (NTK) land on your door mat ??

 

EDIT: Don't do anything at the moment. ..... Dates first please

[DrJolly]

Hi all,

 

Many thanks for the replies so far.

 

Date of notice: 04/06/15 (Written on the letter itself)

 

Landed on the door mat on Friday 05/06/15

 

As far as i can see the word 'fine' does not appear, just 'parking charge'.

 

Regards,

[silverfox1961]

So the date of infringement is 05/05/15. The date of the letter is 04/06/15 so by my reckoning they are out of time. As this was an ANPR capture, they had 14 days to contact you.

 

They have failed!

 

[DrJolly]

Thanks for the information.

 

So how solid is the 14 day contact appeal? Done and dusted or can they get around it?

[armadillo71]

The timeframe is inline with a NTD issued and follow up NTK. So can the OP clarify that the NTK does not refer to an earlier windscreen ticket and is not also an NTK reminder letter?

 

 

If as suggested that it is ANPR capture and is the first contact from CP+, then as pointed out , the protocols of The POFA 2012 have not been followed.

 

 

This means that there is no keeper liability. Only the driver can be held liable for the 'charge'.

 

 

A simple response along the lines of,

 

 

'as RK I am not liable for the charge as schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 has not been followed.

 

 

Cancel charge or issue a valid POPLA code.'

[DrJolly]

To clarify - No windscreen ticket on my car.

 

This is the first contact from CP Plus and is a ANPR (camera) capture showing an 'In capture' and 'Out capture' of my car.

 

Just to note: My car is a company car, does this make any difference?

[armadillo71]

Just to note: My car is a company car, does this make any difference?

 

Depends on who the registered keeper is?

 

Have you received a NTK from CP+, or has your company named you as the driver or keeper to CP+, and then issued you with a NTD or NTK.

[DrJolly]

Well it has been issued to me directly and to my (old) address. I assume at some point either through the DVLA or our Lease company Zenith, my address will have been found. My assumption is the DVLA, as i have only just changed my address within the last 2 days to our new home and it was sent to the old registered address.

 

But i do not believe i am the registered keeper of the vehicle (i certainly do not own the vehicle) - It is leased for 3-4 years.

 

Is this relevant, given the time frame issued?

[DrJolly]

1st draft of my response to the parking charge from CP Plus, any ideas on how to sign at the bottom, or just leave as regards?:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

re: Notice reference number XXXXX/XXXXX

 

On behalf of the registered keeper, your parking invoice impersonating a 'parking ticket' has been received and it is quite clear of your aim to unfairly maximise profits by taking advantage of passing motorists parking at these services.

 

Your invitation to pay or name the driver has been declined, neither of which are required of me.

All liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

 

As this is an ANPR capture and first contact from CP+ is dated 04/06/15, following a recorded stay which you have stated is on the 05/05/15, the protocols of The POFA 2012 have not been followed:

 

6.2 Where a contravention is detected remotely (such as by cameras), the

landholder may request registered keeper data from the DVLA

immediately and must write to the registered keeper within 14 days

seeking details of the driver or payment of the parking charge.

 

If you choose not to cancel this invoice you must issue a rejection letter in reply to my appeal, explaining:

 

1. The legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee). There cannot be any expectation to guess the basis of your allegation.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site.

3. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

4. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS.

 

Regards,

[f16]

Hi all,

 

Many thanks for the replies so far.

 

Date of notice: 04/06/15 (Written on the letter itself)

 

Landed on the door mat on Friday 05/06/15

 

As far as i can see the word 'fine' does not appear, just 'parking charge'.

 

Regards,

 

Something wrong with the dates here !!!!

 

Op does not own the car.

So in one day (04/06/15 to 05/06/15). The PPC contacted DVLA who wrote to the lease company, who then wrote to you all within the space of one day !!!!

 

Dates are wrong somewhere.

[DrJolly]

Date of notice: 04/06/15

 

I opened the letter yesterday 06/06/15

 

The capture on camera: 05/05/15.

 

Does this make sense?

[silverfox1961]

Before we go any further, I feel you should contact Zenith to see if they have been contacted. My not knowing it was a company car puts a new twist on this as CP+ will have extra time to contact Zenith and then you.

 

It still doesn't matter in the long run as all you do now is follow the appeals process as the keeper NOT the driver.

 

Get the appeal in whilst trying to get more info about who CP+ contacted

[armadillo71]

If CP+ got your details frpm the DVLA, then you are the registered keeper.

 

The registered keeper does not have to be the owner.

 

The quote you have used is not a legal document, just a government paper.

 

This is the POFA 2012;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

[DrJolly]

SilverFox:

 

To be clear I drive the car most days as part of my job.

 

The document has been issued to me directly, with my name and address in the top left hand corner. However it states the following on the document: "Having checked the vehicle details with the DVLA, we are writing to you because either you were the registered keeper at the time of parking, or the registered keeper has named you as the driver at the date and time of the event."

 

Armadillo:

 

I will make my initial appeal to CP+, under the terms of not following POFA 2012 - Please could you/someone clarify exactly which part of POFA 2012 they are not following (I.E - Section x)?

 

I have edited my appeal as follows:

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

re: Notice reference number XXXXX/XXXXX

 

On behalf of the registered keeper, your parking invoice impersonating a 'parking ticket' has been received and it is quite clear of your aim to unfairly maximise profits by taking advantage of passing motorists parking at these services.

 

Your invitation to pay or name the driver has been declined, neither of which are required of me.

All liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

 

As this is an ANPR capture and first contact from CP+ is dated 04/06/15, following a recorded stay which you have stated is on the 05/05/15, the protocols of The POFA 2012 have not been followed.

 

If you choose not to cancel this invoice you must issue a rejection letter in reply to my appeal, explaining:

 

1. The legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee). There cannot be any expectation to guess the basis of your allegation.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site.

3. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

4. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS.

 

Regards,

 

 

Thanks again for all your help so far.

[ericsbrother]

Ask Zenith if they passed on your details to CP+ before you do anything. If they havent then you can write to CP+ (if you can be bothered to) and tell them where to go as their notice is not compliant with either para 8 or para 9 of the PoFA and therefore no keeper liability. If Zenith have named you as the driver then CP+ can ignore those parts and go after you directly but they have to prove it was yopu driving at the time and being a company car can they be sure? You dont have to help them with their detective work.

Assuming that Zenith havent passed on your details then

1/ CP+ may be in breach of the conditions that allow them to access the DVLA database as they are timed out for doing so and so they are lying about having a reasonable cause for doing so. Also a complaint to DVLA and to the BPA about the abuse of their membership of the ATA is in order.

2/ you dont have any liability as keeper.

They most likely know this but are just hoping you dont know that they are in the wrong.