PRA Group claimform old MBNA card 'debt'

[AndyOrch]

Summary Judgment hearings are based on witness statements submitted in support/against....fully agree with Shammy...do not hand anything in on the day...the court will not tolerate it.

 

Best of luck.

 

Andy

[ibberty bibberty]

Perfectly acceptable and proper, in the interests of justice, to hand in a copy of relevant case law, especially if your opponent tries to take unfair advantage of you being an untrained litigant acting in person. There is no ‘ambush’ in this respect.

 

 

Further, CPR r.31.11 provides that parties’ duty to disclose documents continue until the proceedings are concluded. Again, there is no issue as to ‘ambush’ on this point.

 

 

Only s.32 of the Limitation Act 1980 makes provision for the 6 year limitation period to not begin until the cause of action complained of becomes known to either the debtor or the creditor or to any other party under a contract governed by English law for reason of fraud, concealment or mistake, none of these issues are present in the circumstances of the creditor’s claim against you.

 

 

The CCA 1974 (as amended) does not provide any such constraint upon the start of the 6 year limitation period, in your case, the limitation period began as of February 2009 as this is the date that the creditor became aware that his cause of action accrued against you. Therefore, the creditor cannot rely upon service of his default notice on you (October 2009) as being the date that his cause of action accrued.

 

 

The fact that the creditor delayed service of his default notice until October 2009, for whatever reason, does not place the limitation period on pause.

 

 

ibberty bibberty

[AndyOrch]

The full context of CPR 31.11

 

31.11

(1) Any duty of disclosure continues until the proceedings are concluded.

(2) If documents to which that duty extends come to a party’s notice at any time during the proceedings, he must immediately notify every other party.

 

So if you have not informed the claimant nor attached or referred on the above case law within your submitted witness statement.....the court will reject and it will be regarded as an ambush

 

John you should be asleep now

[ibberty bibberty]

This is wholly factually incorrect.

 

 

Case law/the authorities on the principle applying to the circumstances of the case are spoken in oral argument/submissions and are not limited to being only allowed if they are set out in statements of case, witness statements or skeleton arguments. Further, a transcript of an approved judgment is not a ‘document’ within the meaning of CPR r.31.11, approved transcripts of any Handed Down Judgment are published in the public domain and therefore readily available and easily accessible to all.

 

 

In any event:

 

r.31.11(2) provides:-

 

(2) If documents to which that duty extends come to a party’s notice at any time during the proceedings, he must immediately notify every other party.

 

 

Therefore, jono will not be penalised by the Court if he should bring a copy of the approved transcript from the Reed case with him and gives a copy of the same to the usher and to the counsel/solicitor. There is no ‘ambush’ by jono in this respect, each side will be relying upon different authorities to try and win their case, if jono is denied the right to rely upon a relevant authority in support of his case against the claim, simply because he has not referred to it in his statements, then this would be prejudicial to jono’s rights and violate jono’s strict legal right under art.6 ECHR, which in turn will present jono with irresistible grounds to allow an appeal on any decision made against him in the SJ.

 

 

ibberty bibberty

[ccholland]

Hi johno23,

 

 

Sorry to butt in but I am interested to see how this one pans out - how did you get on?

 

 

Thanks.

[johno23]

Lost in Court SJ given, will provide details later

[ccholland]

oh mate - I wasn't expecting you to say that.

[shamrocker]

Lost in Court SJ given, will provide details later

 

I'm saddened to hear that Johno. I'd really like to hear more about how it went and why you think you lost. Sorry pal.

[johno23]

The Judge went with the cause of action as the default notice.

 

Would not move on the fact that a creditor can dictate the limitation act by waiting 8 months to issue a default notice.

 

Gutted

[honeybee13]

I'm really sorry, johno. You did your best.

 

 

HB

[ibberty bibberty]

Oh dear, sorry to here this jono

 

Are you going to appeal?

 

Hopefully when you post up the details as to why the judge did not accept your case against the SJ, we will all be better placed to comment/advise/help further, if you wish.

 

ibberty bibberty

[shamrocker]

The Judge went with the cause of action as the default notice.

 

Would not move on the fact that a creditor can dictate the limitation act by waiting 8 months to issue a default notice.

 

Gutted

 

Johno - did you refer the judge to any sources of information in order to qualify your position that the statute barred timeframe should be last payment plus six years and three months?

[johno23]

Johno - did you refer the judge to any sources of information in order to qualify your position that the statute barred timeframe should be last payment plus six years and three months?

 

Yes I tried everything, but he kept saying the cause of action is the default, but took in to account what I said.

 

He did refuse them all the interest and costs as he said it is there fault for taking too long to issue proceedings.

 

Johno

[ibberty bibberty]

This judgment, although not a precedent and unqualified, effectively allows any creditor to withhold service of a default notice for a period of 5 years and 364 days and thereby extends the 6 year limitation period to a total of 12 years, because if the creditor serves his default notice on the last day of the limitation period (6 years) he then has another 6 years to issue his claim!

 

 

This judgment is outrageous and contravenes the statutory provision of s.5 of the Limitation Act 1980.

 

 

Clear error of law here by the judge and no judge has the power to extend the limitation period beyond that which is provided under s.5 of the 1980 Act.

 

 

ibberty bibberty

[johno23]

I know hard to take, I had no chance of winning today, the only saving grace is my dad wanted to come and he is paying the 13k in 14 days so I do not get a CCJ.

 

thank you to everyone that has helped me, I feel exhausted from reg whole experience, they were going for 18.5k with costs and interest so it is the best it can get for me in this situation.

 

Kind regards

 

Johno

[Guest]

sorry to read this johno.

as has been posed, can a creditor sit on a matter for x yrs, then do a def notice and default to give them a further 6 years. doesnt make sense to me. to me a def notice is just a formal part of the legal process (cause) that begins from the breach complained of.

at least they didnt get interest and costs.

all the best.

[johno23]

Yes seems to be Ford, make no sense but the judge would not budge.

 

The default notice was the cause of action.

 

Look I am gutted but sometimes that's what life throws at you!

[ibberty bibberty]

Jono

 

What's the date of the default recorded in your credit files?

 

ibberty bibberty

[johno23]

30th September 2009

[johno23]

Oh dear, sorry to here this jono

 

Are you going to appeal?

 

Hopefully when you post up the details as to why the judge did not accept your case against the SJ, we will all be better placed to comment/advise/help further, if you wish.

 

ibberty bibberty

 

Appeal?

 

Not sure it will get me anywhere unless I could include other stuff, like credit agreement unreadable, two default notices different wording same date!

 

Would probably need some hel in court as feel deflated with the system at the moment

[ibberty bibberty]

Can you pdf both default notices here please, minus all personal info.

 

It may be the case that the default notice (both of them) are invalid,

if this is the case,

the creditor has no entitlement to enforce the credit agreement and the SJ is invalid,

 

 

but this needs proper review of those dn and you would have to appeal to set aside the judgment given against you today, which will of course save your dad £18.5k

 

ibberty bibberty

[johno23]

Thanks for all your help, I am going to settle the payment in two weeks as I have the means to do it. The default drops off my credit file and I do not want damage to my credit report as the default drops off in September.

 

This process has taken a lot out of me and need to move on with my life.

[Old Cogger]

Chivers - Aka Duncan Brown = Diving Instructor, ?

[panther12]

Understandable you want closure but it's a heck of a lot of money. I know it involves more expense but with the amounts involved I think I would at least run it past a specialist solicitor in this field for their advice.

[ccholland]

I would agree with what panther has just posted

- it seems that you unfortunately came up against a judge who was maybe not as clued up as they should be or was unfortunately having a bad day (doesn't help you I know).

 

 

You should be able to get an initial consultation with a solicitor free for half an hour

and then after that you decide whether you feel it is worth continuing to fight them

- good luck with whatever you decide though