Cabot/weightmans claimform - following SD set aside in 2013 - halifax Aqua Card ***Claim Discontinued***

[Poppay2]

Hi Andyorch Yes, I believe it was, I have it at home, have kept it. It was for the Argos claim. I'm at work at the moment, thankfully it is a bit of a slow day workwise.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andyorch Yes, I believe it was, I have it at home, have kept it. It was for the Argos claim. I'm at work at the moment, thankfully it is a bit of a slow day workwise.

 

So not this current claim......

[Poppay2]

the last payment that i can find a record of for Aqua was 1st June 2010, therefore not SB.

 

Hi Andyorch Yes, I believe it was, I have it at home, have kept it. It was for the Argos claim. I'm at work at the moment, thankfully it is a bit of a slow day workwise.

 

No, not for this current claim which is for Aqua.

 

unfortunately bank records only go back as far as April 2007, the earliest payment I can find for Aqua was April 2007. I will need to go through the paper records at home to find out if it started prior to 2007.

 

I have drafted the body of the Duplicate CCA letter as below

 

 

template removed please don't post our templates in the open forum - dx

 

My apologies

[Poppay2]

Name of the Claimant ? CABOT FINANCIAL UK LIMITED

Date of issue – 07 OCTOBER 2015

 

What is the claim for –

Particulars of the Claim

 

1. The Defendant entered into a credit agreement described by the original creditor as Bank of Scotland (AquaCard)- Credit Card and having account number *********** ('the Account').

 

2. The Claimant, a UK limited company with company number *******, is the assignee and legal owner of all rights previously enjoyed by the original creditor in respect of the Account.

 

3. The Defendant is indebted to the claimant in respect of the account in the sum of 2722

 

4. The Claimant claims the said sum of 2722, plus costs. court fee £105 Legal representatives costs £80 total 2907

What is the value of the claim? £2722.

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? Credit Card

When did you enter into the original agreement before

or after 2007? Not sure, bank records online only go back as far as April 2007

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt purchaser

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes and yes

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? no

Why did you cease payments? Reduced income

What was the date of your last payment? 01 June 2010

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Attempted to reach an agreement but they sold the debt without answering any of my letters

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes, all correspondence was ignored

[Poppay2]

Just going back over your thread.

 

As things stand, this will be easy to defend. It may be worth writing to the claimant pointing out that you have been told previously there is no agreement, and that in the absence of an agreement being produced prior to any hearing, you will seek costs (you really can do this, even in small claims where the claimant’s behaviour is unreasonable). You may even want to get lawyered up, as any solicitor worth their salt would lick their lips at this.

 

I am sending a short letter stating the following:

 

 

'I have been informed on previous occasions that there is no agreement held by Cabot .

In the absence of an agreement being produced prior to any hearing I will seek costs.'

 

 

I am thinking I should send a cca to Weghtmans, so as to cover myself in court?

 

 

I know i fell foul of not sending copies of all correspondence sent to the claimant, to the legal representative,

I recall the judge did reprimand me for that. I think I will also include a copy of the CCA request that I am also sending.

 

i am a bit stumped regarding the CPR31 request,

just read something that said I had to very exact as to the information I was requesting,

 

 

do I send this to Cbot and Weghtmans?

[DonkeyB]

Just going back over your thread.

 

As things stand, this will be easy to defend. It may be worth writing to the claimant pointing out that you have been told previously there is no agreement, and that in the absence of an agreement being produced prior to any hearing, you will seek costs (you really can do this, even in small claims where the claimant’s behaviour is unreasonable). You may even want to get lawyered up, as any solicitor worth their salt would lick their lips at this.

 

I am sending a short letter stating the following: 'I have been informed on previous occasions that there is no agreement held by Cabot . In the absence of an agreement being produced prior to any hearing I will seek costs.' I am thinking I should send a cc to Weghtmans, so as to cover myself in court? I know i fell foul of not sending copies of all correspondence sent to the claimant, to the legal representative, I recall the judge did reprimand me for that. I think I will also include a copy of the CCA request that I am also sending.

 

It was up to the debt seller and buyer and anyone involved to ensure that issues like outstanding CCA requests were included part of the package sold. Caveat emptor. It’s their problem. Technically you don’t need to keep reminding them about the CCA request, but it’s just good practice and will make them look silly if they go to court and can’t come up with anything – they were warned.

 

No harm in copying in Weightmans. They will probably sh** a brick.

 

But do state specifically that as the owner of the alleged debt, they remain in default of a valid CCA request.

[DonkeyB]

i am a bit stumped regarding the CPR31 request, just read something that said I had to very exact as to the information I was requesting, do I send this to Cbot and Weghtmans?

 

By being specific, it means you can only asks for items mentioned in the particulars of claim. They mention the credit agreement, so you are entitled to see it. Give them a problem by offering to go and inspect it, as you are allowed – after all, you are trying to establish their entitlement to the alleged debt and are entitled to see that the agreement is properly executed.

[Poppay2]

 

It was up to the debt seller and buyer and anyone involved to ensure that issues like outstanding CCA requests were included part of the package sold. Caveat emptor. It’s their problem. Technically you don’t need to keep reminding them about the CCA request, but it’s just good practice and will make them look silly if they go to court and can’t come up with anything – they were warned.

 

No harm in copying in Weightmans. They will probably sh** a brick.

 

But do state specifically that as the owner of the alleged debt, they remain in default of a valid CCA request.

 

It would be wonderful to think that Weightmans would be in the least bit perturbed by any correspondence I sent them, instead of myself being perturbed (and that is me putting things very politely) I will add the bit about the being the owner of the alleged debt they remain in default etc etc

 

By being specific, it means you can only asks for items mentioned in the particulars of claim. They mention the credit agreement, so you are entitled to see it. Give them a problem by offering to go and inspect it, as you are allowed – after all, you are trying to establish their entitlement to the alleged debt and are entitled to see that the agreement is properly executed.

 

Is there a template or guideline for writing a CPR31? I cannot seem to find one.

 

Is there a template or guideline for writing a CPR31? I cannot seem to find one.

 

No worries, found a template

 

By being specific, it means you can only asks for items mentioned in the particulars of claim. They mention the credit agreement, so you are entitled to see it. Give them a problem by offering to go and inspect it, as you are allowed – after all, you are trying to establish their entitlement to the alleged debt and are entitled to see that the agreement is properly executed.

 

I am struggling with the wording on how to offer inspecting the document myself. I am probably all cpr'd and cca'd out at the moment any ideas ?

[AndyOrch]

I personally wouldn't worry Poppay....they are very unlikely to respond to your CPR request...let alone you get the chance to inspect any document....disclosure follows defence as directed by the court.

[DonkeyB]

I personally wouldn't worry Poppay....they are very unlikely to respond to your CPR request...let alone you get the chance to inspect any document....disclosure follows defence as directed by the court.

 

It does indeed Andy, but as I mentioned it’s another way to show you are trying to work towards the ‘overriding objective’... can’t say they weren’t warned or put on notice.

 

After all, Poppay is just trying to save Cabot money...

[Poppay2]

thanks everyone, it did help knowing that they will probably just discount the request. wasnt too worried about the wording after that. I will still send the CPR31, that way at least I am doing all that I can DonkeyB provided me with a chuckle, I certainly am trying to save Cabot money .. ha ha ha

 

Now, I just need to get the postal order for the CCA request and get the letters posted via recorded delivery

[AndyOrch]

It does indeed Andy, but as I mentioned it’s another way to show you are trying to work towards the ‘overriding objective’... can’t say they weren’t warned or put on notice.

 

After all, Poppay is just trying to save Cabot money...

 

Of course DB it should still be made:-)

[Poppay2]

everything was sent yesterday evening.

[Poppay2]

Well that was quick, Weightmans have responded.

 

 

This is the first letter (both arrived yesterday)

PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL

MISS

Contact Our Ref

Commercial Recoveries Marlin EMW

Your Ref *********************

Date ** October 201 5

Dear Madam

Our Client Cabot Financial (Marlin) Limited

Legal Owner of Account: Cabot Financial (UK) Limited Account Number: ***********************************

Original Creditor: Bank of Scotland (Aqua Card) - Credit Card Claim Number: ***********************

 

 

We write to acknowledge receipt of your request for documents pursuant to section 77/ 78 of the Consumer Credit act 1974.

 

 

As indicated in previous correspondence, we are not the creditor to whom you owe the above balance;

we are solicitors instructed by Cabot Financial (Marlin) Limited.

 

 

We do not have copies of any of the documents which you have requested.

 

 

We confirm we have today asked our client to send us copies of your agreement and your statements which we will then forward to you.

 

 

Yours faithfully Weightmans LLP

 

the 2nd letter

Dear Madam

Our Client: Cabot Financial (Marlin)

Limited Legal Owner of Account: Cabot Financial (UK) Limited

Account Number: ********************************

Original Creditor: Bank of Scotland (Aqua Card) - Credit Card Claim Number: ***************

 

 

Further to your correspondence dated ** October 2015,

we confirm we have requested a copy of your credit agreement from the original creditor.

It may take a period of time to obtain a copy of this document.

Once we are in receipt of the document however, it will be forwarded to you without delay.

 

 

Please note that once directions have been provided by the Court to take this matter to trial, a deadline will then be provided for both parties to disclose all documents on which they seek to rely on at trial.

 

 

As the documents which our client will seek to rely on are likely to include the document requested, you will be in receipt of the same in advance of any subsequent trial.

 

 

in accordance with CPR 15.2, you must file a defence to proceedings, by the deadline specified by the Court, should you wish to defend this claim to trial.

 

 

Our client is willing to provide you with an extension of 14 days to file your defence to proceedings.

 

 

Please ensure you notify the Court of the same, in writing, in accordance with CPR 15.

 

 

In the event that you fail to file a defence by the specified deadline, our client could request a default judgment be entered against you pursuant to CPR 15.3 and CPR 1 2.3

 

 

Please note, in the event that you fail to file a defence within the specified time period, resulting in our client obtaining a default judgment against you which you later seek to have set aside, we will draw the contents of this correspondence to the Court's attention both in opposition of your application to have the default judgment set aside and on the issue of costs.

 

 

We trust that the above clarifies our client's position but should you require any further information, please do not he sitate to contact a member of the Commercial Recoveries team. Yours faithfully Weightmans LLP

 

personally,

if you are going to take someone to court

dont you ensure that you have the said documentation?

 

 

I also like how they are granting me another 14 days to file a defence,

I believe I need to acknowledge service by the 24th of October,

whereby I can also request another 14 days from the date of acknowledgement to file a defence?

 

 

Unless my understanding of the court documents is skewed?

 

 

Poppay

[DonkeyB]

Slight problem with that response. The issuing of legal proceedings does not remove their obligation to respond properly and within time limits to a valid CCA request. The two issues are not in any way linked, and they are deliberately misleading you by suggesting they are.

 

Any upcoming trial is irrelevant. For all they know, you might apply for a strike out if they don’t come up with the agreement within 12 days.

 

And once again, they admit they have issued a statement of truth in their claim based on a document they don’t have, haven’t seen, and have been told does not exist, according to the original creditor. So they lied in their statement of truth, which is something you must now put in your defence.

[DonkeyB]

personally, if you are going to take someone to court dont you ensure that you have the said documentation? I also like how they are granting me another 14 days to file a defence, I believe I need to acknowledge service by the 24th of October, whereby I can also request another 14 days from the date of acknowledgement to file a defence? Unless my understanding of the court documents is skewed? Poppay

 

Exactly – sorry, didn’t see this post as it went to a new page.

[Poppay2]

Hi DonkeyB Your response has bouyed me up. These situations always leave me feeling a tad down, but definitely not out . I'm so used to these companies lying that I dont see the wood for the trees, meaning it didnt click immediately that they lied on the claim form. Poppay

[dx100uk]

and you don't give/accept/agree to another 14 days extension....

for them to magic up paperwork!

[Poppay2]

and you don't give/accept/agree to another 14 days extension....

for them to magic up paperwork!

 

I didnt realise that is what they are after.

 

 

I interpreted it as they were letting me have the 14 days that I was already entitled through the court process.

 

 

Any correspondence to them from me, will be on the advice given from this site, as it has always stood me in good stead.

 

 

I am not going to make it easier for them as they would not afford me the same courtesy.

 

 

As I had not responded to any of their previous correspondence I guess they thought I was a 'slam dunk'!

 

 

Have I got them on the run I am asking myself now.

[DonkeyB]

Hi DonkeyB Your response has bouyed me up. These situations always leave me feeling a tad down, but definitely not out . I'm so used to these companies lying that I dont see the wood for the trees, meaning it didnt click immediately that they lied on the claim form. Poppay

 

Yes, they lied, and their admission confirms it. It’s an abuse of process, and in some cases judges are actually making something of it (though sadly most are not). Until the people who sign these PoCs and statements of truth are held to account for telling blatant lies, they will get away with it – there’s plenty of case law that says they can’t just rely on the ‘fact’ that there ‘would have been an agreement’.

 

But you need to bring it to the court’s attention in your defence, just as you will point out they have litigated when the know they remain in default of a valid CCA request. You have to play the game yourself, sadly.

 

You also need to be prepared for what to do in case an agreement miraculously appears, which is of course a possibility.

 

As DX has so rightly suggested, why let them have more time? And also, if they don’t come up with the goods in 12 days, you have every right – based on the history – to apply for a strike out.

[Poppay2]

I will definitely use it. I calculate the 12 days to be up by 25 October. I posted the request on evening of the 12th which means it would not have gone until the 13th and they would have recieved it on the 14th, Am I correct in calculations?

[DonkeyB]

Sounds like it did go on 13th, they got it on 14th and responded on 14th if you received their response on 15th.

 

So go from 14th – is that the date on their letter? Must be!

 

It’s 12 working days if I remember correctly – so your due date is around 30th October.

[DonkeyB]

You can get your defence in anyway, because that will move things on quickly. By their own admission they expect to miss the 12 day deadline. And they are already in default of the previous request – did you make it clear that this was a repeated CCA request?

[Poppay2]

Sounds like it did go on 13th, they got it on 14th and responded on 14th if you received their response on 15th.

 

So go from 14th – is that the date on their letter? Must be!

 

It’s 12 working days if I remember correctly – so your due date is around 30th October.

 

yes, 14th is the date on the letter

[Poppay2]

You can get your defence in anyway, because that will move things on quickly. By their own admission they expect to miss the 12 day deadline. And they are already in default of the previous request – did you make it clear that this was a repeated CCA request?

 

I sent the CCA request clearly stating that it was a duplicate request to Cbot and sent a copy of the request to Weightmans. Basically I ensured that both have copies of the correspondence that I sent to each of them. so I should work on my defence now, and not wait to see if they manage to supply a CCA?