Cardiff - Intended Prosecution....

[Meekyou]

Evening all,

 

Came home from a few days away to find a lovely letter (in Welsh..!!) from the South Wales Police - 38mph in a 30mph Limit - I always thought the road was a 40mph; anyway my fault.

 

Couple of questions.....

 

1 - Likely outcome... £100 & 3 points or what's the chance of being offered the Awareness Course?? (currently licence is clean, and has been for over 7 years.)

 

2 - I thought they have to supply a photo? or does that only come along if you deny / argue and it goes to court? It would be a rear pic anyway as it was a Gatso jobbie at some traffic lights.

 

Thanks

[Sidewinder]

Providing that you have had no previous speeding convictions in the last three years you should be offered a SAC for this.

 

No photo at this stage - only if you opt to contest the ticket

[Aretnap]

You'll be offered a course for anything up to 42 in a 30 provided you haven't done one in the last 3 years. Whether or not you've had any other convictions doesn't matter - just whether you've already done the course.

 

They don't have to provide a photo at this point. You can ask to see one if you like and they might provide one - but they don't have to.

[Meekyou]

Thanks for the info.

[Cardiff Devil]

Just out of curiousity whereabouts in Cardiff was this? I got caught a few weeks ago doing 39 in what I thought was a 40, but turned out to be a 30. Wondering if it's the same spot.

[Meekyou]

Newport Road A4161 / Rover Way junction - there's a Gatso - I thought it was a red light camera. Obviously not..!! Had a look on Streetview (i know it's out of date) but can't see any speed limit signs or camera warning signs either.

 

Got offered the course.

[welshdean]

Newport Road A4161 / Rover Way junction - there's a Gatso - I thought it was a red light camera. Obviously not..!! Had a look on Streetview (i know it's out of date) but can't see any speed limit signs or camera warning signs either.

 

Got offered the course.

 

Whoops, it's been there a while now, plenty of signs too!

[SabreSheep]

And also as they will tell you on the course, if no signs but there are street lights every x meters then that signifies 30 UNLESS signposted otherwise

[jackreacher]

Just got done same bloody spot... 37mph, thought it was a 40. no houses or signs that I could see but there were road works in August that may have confused me.

 

Would love to fight this but nothing to go on!

[SabreSheep]

read my comment above

[jackreacher]

read my comment above

 

I have ..just peed as it was a genuine mistake. Hope for a course as I drive for a living. No points in 20 years.

[DragonFly1967]

I've got my "Driver Education Course" on Monday, same spot. I too thought it was a 40, I was doing 36 .

[jackreacher]

I've got my "Driver Education Course" on Monday, same spot. I too thought it was a 40, I was doing 36 .

 

Glad you kept 3 points off. When I drove through there were road works with 30 on, and wrongly i presumed it was just for those works. I have the photos and one car is clearly moving faster than me nearer to the camera. I wonder if they got a ticket as well.

 

 

I drive for a living and have rarely been as confused.

 

Anyway it is what it is and hopefully I will get the course.

 

Oh and I have sent the form back twice now and its not been received ....although an accompanying letter asking for the photos was received! ??

 

I have phoned and spoken to them to complain.. They said I had to comply by the date which I have apparently over run. However I correctly informed them that the form supplied which I have a photo copy is over written and you can not read the date therefore no offence can have been committed. They agreed they knew about the overwritten date so had to agree. Nice to get a small dig in!

 

Not sure if you have seen my success in the consumer credit courts. ..

[jackreacher]

Right coming back to this as I recently went back to Cardiff again....Newport Road A4161 / Rover Way junction

 

Coming off the dual carriageway down to the roundabout and heading into Cardiff past the retail sector...there are no speed signs up until 5 meters from the traffic lights where 1 30mph sign is fixed at a 7ft height.

 

Given that the road is 3 and 4 lanes wide it is legally a dual carriageway at 70mph. If it wants to be 30 mph it needs to say so between the exit of the dual carriageway and the main road into Cardiff and a good warning distance before the Gatso.

 

In my opinion there also needs to be speed signs in the outside lanes of the dual carriageway. Not only is it unsafe to look so far across but there may well be a van or bus blocking your view.

 

I believe it also fails as if you are in the 3rd and 4th lane you are expected to look onto the grass verge upon a tree to see the said 30mph sign. This is clearly unsafe and more akin to private clamping companies tacticts.

 

If someone living in Cardiff could double check this it would be appreciated. As I may well now challenge on the above grounds.

 

Regards Jack

[Tony P]

Looking at Streetview, opposite Burger King, I could not see any 30 signs. However, there are plenty of lamp posts on both sides of the road/carriageways.

 

 

Unless there are signs saying otherwise, street lighting (on posts or otherwise) within 200 yards of each other, automatically defines a 30mph speed limit. In those circumstances, signs or repeater signs are not a requirement.

[jackreacher]

Looking at Streetview, opposite Burger King, I could not see any 30 signs. However, there are plenty of lamp posts on both sides of the road/carriageways.

 

 

 

Unless there are signs saying otherwise, street lighting (on posts or otherwise) within 200 yards of each other, automatically defines a 30mph speed limit. In those circumstances, signs or repeater signs are not a requirement.

 

Hi Tony,

 

I totally agree with where you are coming from but that can't be strictly true as some motorway stretches etc have 200 yrd lights and no other speed signs.

 

In one of their responses they actually say " that once they have indicated what the speed limit is (which I can not see) as long as there is the street lighting it is 30mph and they do not have to put any more speed signs up.

 

However I am also unsure if the lighting rule only applies to streets with houses?

 

I just thing if 5000 a year are getting stopped on this one and another 12,000 stopped down the road there is something amiss!

 

 

I believe the law only allows Speed cameras to be put in accident blackspots ...is this really one? Ever?

[Raykay]

Hi Tony,

 

I totally agree with where you are coming from but that can't be strictly true as some motorway stretches etc have 200 yrd lights and no other speed signs.

 

 

Motorways are 'Special Roads' and are not subject to the same legislation - s.82(3) & 84(2)(4), Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

[jackreacher]

Hi Raykay,

 

Excellent always good to know one way or the other.

 

Where legally do I stand regarding, whether there does need to be a speed notice in place despite the street lights as indication, given that it is not a residential area?

 

How would I know it is not a motorway as it is 3 lanes wide and their are no speed signs.

[Tony P]

How would I know it is not a motorway as it is 3 lanes wide and their are no speed signs.

 

Ever read the Highway Code?

 

Motorways are announced by blue signs, and other signs detailing restricted use and speed limit signs at the commencement/joining point - usually the black and white 'National Limit' sign that means 70 not, as in the old days, "no speed limit".

 

Equally the end of Motorway regulations is clearly signposted.

 

The Highway Code explains all this for those who don't take an interest in their surroundings.

And once you've been through that, try "Roadcraft" a police book that taught me so much 60 years ago, but still highly relevant today with very few modification, even in the driving madness where I now live!

Edited March 6, 2016 by Tony P
grammar

[Raykay]

Where legally do I stand regarding, whether there does need to be a speed notice in place despite the street lights as indication, given that it is not a residential area?

 

 

Residential area or not, if there are street lights not more than 200yards apart, and a restricted road (30 mph limit), only terminal signs are required.

 

 

Any other road (except a 'Special Road), that has street lights (as above), needs repeater signs to indicate the limit.

[jackreacher]

Ever read the Highway Code?

 

Motorways are announced by blue signs, and other signs detailing restricted use and speed limit signs at the commencement/joining point - usually the black and white 'National Limit' sign that means 70 not, as in the old days, "no speed limit".

 

Equally the end of Motorway regulations is clearly signposted.

 

The Highway Code explains all this for those who don't take an interest in their surroundings.

And once you've been through that, try "Roadcraft" a police book that taught me so much 60 years ago, but still highly relevant today with very few modification, even in the driving madness where I now live!

 

Hey your knowledge is invaluable despite tardiness. This is how I have won so many legal challenges and set legal precedents. Not just those in my in my link. all representing myself.

 

My interest in this case is not for myself but to understand how Cardiff can have such a high rate of speeding capture on two cameras aprx a mile apart, compared to the rest of the speed cameras in the country.

 

 

Then I would be correct to presume it was dual carriageway and as there were no speed signs and it was not a residential area and the national speed limit is 70 and I was doing 38.

 

As i drive for a living i have my own understanding of the law but it may not be correct so asking questions no matter how simple helps me to the answer if indeed there is one. My own opinion is Cardiff are using this as a cash cow and may or not be acting within the law.

[Raykay]

 

Then I would be correct to presume it was dual carriageway and as there were no speed signs and it was not a residential area and the national speed limit is 70 and I was doing 38.

 

 

Even though it is a dual carriageway in a non residential area, as there are street lights and no repeater signs = restricted road, 30mph.

[borisbeaver]

Motorways names always start with a M - for Motorway

[jackreacher]

Thanks for some totally crap answers..

 

Cardiff withdrew their intended prosecution when I pointed out that there should be speed signs on both sides of the carriageway given it was 4 lanes wide. No points, no fine.

 

Honestly if you don't know, don't give out smug answers you make your selves look stupid.

 

I pat myself on the back for fighting alone.. which I have never had to do before on this forum!

 

M also stands for Muppet

[Tony P]

Thanks for some totally crap answers..

 

Cardiff withdrew their intended prosecution when I pointed out that there should be speed signs on both sides of the carriageway given it was 4 lanes wide. No points, no fine.

 

Honestly if you don't know, don't give out smug answers you make your selves look stupid.

 

I pat myself on the back for fighting alone.. which I have never had to do before on this forum!

 

Well done.

 

One query - your above post seems not to be full of the altruism of this one -

 

My interest in this case is not for myself but to understand how Cardiff can have such a high rate of speeding capture on two cameras aprx a mile apart, compared to the rest of the speed cameras in the country.

 

If this truly is your motive, I trust you have already made appropriate representations to whomsoever is responsible for road signage at the location - and maybe the Orders imposing speed limits, etc, etc. These are the concerns of other than the police, who just enforce on the basis of the paperwork sooner than what they see on the street.

 

I am sure many motorists would appreciate that constructive response sooner than what could be seen as a bit of vindictive crowing.

 

But with absolute sincerity I repeat my first two words above - "Well done".