BlackHorse Transfer to Idem Securities. Is it a lawful agreement?

[jackthepippa]

Hi,

My secured loan from Black Horse is now with Idem Securities.

They are being very fair with their acceptance of our situation but insist on regular reviews.

It was a secured loan.

They are 3rd charge.

I am wondering what legal rights they have 'inherited' IF ANY?

 

However,

when we tried many years ago to take out a secured loan they wouldn't touch us

as the mortgage we have has a draw down facility on it.

 

Also every now and again we get a month or two arrears on mortgage.

 

The secured loan people never chased us.

 

I was expecting them to try and seek repossession but it didn't happen.

 

I din't ever think why but am now wondering how legal the secured loan from BlackHorse was

to be secured as 3rd rank!

Any advice welcome.

 

From picking up on an earlier thread. We had several TSB loans repeatedly consolidated and then we were coerced into turning them into a secured loan; a 3rd charge on our property. (We have a mortgage with separate drawdown facility.)

 

The loan is heavily in arrears. Idem took over and I did not query the original agreement or their ability to do this or indeed any miss selling issues.

 

How can I check the validity of this transfer or the original lending criteria as I no longer have the original agreement?

 

With this loan being secured, I have always worked with collection activities but our means are very limited and we cannot get anywhere near the contractual payments.

 

The pressure of having to review the agreement so frequently is hard as our income is mainly disability benefits and very poor, fluctuating self employed income.

 

It would be a massive relief if I could find out how legitimate the lending was as we had no choice but to accept a secured loan as TSB, back then, were threatening further recovery action if we didn't.

 

Today such bullying would not have happened and a repayment plan put in place.

 

Hope someone can advise me.

 

Thank you

[jackthepippa]

Hi there,

This is the same type of agreement as mine which I am desperately trying to find. So thanks for sharing.

 

Can anyone advise both of us if this agreement is

 

a) Lawful to be passed on being a secured loan and

 

b) Irresponsible lending..

 

Securing a debt that they knew was unaffordable to us

and putting our homes at risk rather than advising a better repayment plan instead?

(Recall mine became 3rd charge.)

 

How would we tackle the situation and with whom?

 

Also is it recommended that I ask my mortgage lender if they were aware of this and the risk to property interests?

 

Should their permission have been sought by BH originally in 2006/7

 

I'm not getting anywhere finding out about the legalities of Idem either.

I am being harassed by them now to review repayments.

 

There isn't any money available for them but they aren't accepting that.

Again, like you, paperwork just sent to me not other party as I'm always left to deal with finances.

 

Not sure what to do?

 

Uh oh...

I've dropped a clanger I think!

 

About 16 months ago I wrote to Lloyds (TSB for me orig) about PPI on loans I had with them in the past.

 

They said no. None due

 

I didn't pursue.

 

Then out of the blue a PPI settlement was offered for 3 loans which I accepted. They said they had got it wrong.

 

I'm in the process of reclaiming back Gross interest deducted as we aren't tax payers.

A 1/4 taken off!

 

Was this why BH sold on ICS then, to avoid the huge PPI payout?

 

Who do you apply to now though?

 

 

Is it BH or Idem?

[dx100uk]

cough +£16k for PPI...

 

claim always to the OC

 

 

dx

[jackthepippa]

Does OC mean original creditor?

[dx100uk]

PPI claim against the OC time

 

 

dx

[jackthepippa]

I have finally decided to ignore Idem who have taken over my BH loan.

Harassment has stopped for now.

 

However, I get the sneaking suspicion that taking on this secured debt from BH

is perhaps not as legit or guaranteed as I have been led to believe.

Anyone know?

[Bazooka Boo]

No worries, so you have Idem chasing you for a BH account too?

 

What does your credit file say?

IE. whose name is next to the default?

 

Have BH 'sold' this or simply using Idem as their gophers?

[jackthepippa]

Ok ..On Noddle it says 'late payment' for Idem. They acquired it last August 2014. It fluctuates between BB and AR. There is no history prior to this when BH were the original lenders.

[Bazooka Boo]

BB = Sustained arrears (3-6 months late)

 

And can only find an AA = Early arrears (1-2 months late)

 

http://useyournoddle.tumblr.com/post/20842124659/account-status-codes

[jackthepippa]

idem have suddenly sprung into life again,

requesting I get back in touch to arrange yet another repayment!

Do they troll this forum too?

[jackthepippa]

No worries, so you have Idem chasing you for a BH account too?

 

What does your credit file say?

IE. whose name is next to the default?

 

Have BH 'sold' this or simply using Idem as their gophers?

 

I believe they have sold it on to idem.

 

They said it had been transferred in a letter last August.

 

Does that mean bought out?

 

Clever language like 'acquired' so unclear!

They claim it's within their rights though.

 

When a loan such as this is a 3rd charge on a property,

how does that work if the first two are up to date or indeed, if they aren't

 

. Can the third one 'pull rank' on the first two and force repossession?

[Bazooka Boo]

When you say they've sprung back into life, how are the contacting you? By hard copy I hope?

 

What you need to realise is that these letters are a play on words, designed purely to manipulate and distort the truth, and are printed off by the hundreds, if not thousands a week, in an attempt to exploit a debtors lack of knowledge and force them into contacting the DCA and pay money they either don't owe, or more than likely can ill afford.

 

Transferred would not, IMO, mean that they are now the new owners of it, it sounds like they're just the gophers, if you have had a letter from both parties, normally in the same envelope, one purporting to be from the OC, and the other from the 'new' owner (although they are printed on the same paper, same type face, and ink) stating that they have sold the account and all of the rights to it to xyz, all future correspondence and payments should now be sent to 'new owners address'.

 

As for your last question, sorry, that's out of my remit, I wouldn't like to hazard a guess. But I wouldn't think that they could 'force' a repossession, although, money is like oxygen to parasites.

[jackthepippa]

Hi Buttercup,

I still have the same unresolved issue too but with Idem

 

They went quiet but resurfaced.

 

 

Threatening to go to court saying out property unaffordable,.

 

 

They are 3rd charge, had to make repayment offer which is already a struggle and had to downgrade offer yet again.

 

Still nowhere forward in sorting how legal it all is.

 

 

They are on Credit File too.

 

 

They are 3rd charge on property but there is no ppi due back.

 

How are you getting on?

 

Hi,

 

We have same situation.

 

Original Secured Loan with LLoyds.

 

'Sold' to Engage Credit.

 

'Sold' again to this new company Skye Loans Ltd

 

We are worried about how to proceed?

 

What should be do first - I have written to Skye and told them we are looking into this matter and requested 30 days grace - they have agreed to this......

 

SAR first?

 

Should we be worried?

 

many thanks to everyone for any help

[jackthepippa]

If, as i am now realising, the secured element of this loan is not enforceable. What happens next?

Does it become written off or does it revert to unsecured status. Why would BH sell on a recoverable debt?

[jackthepippa]

I've been following this thread too as I am in the same boat.

I'm hoping this contribution is relevant without making a new thread.

What I don't understand with BH and idem is why would a secured debt not have gone to the courts by now?

 

We have no available money at the moment to fund this debt and they told me our home was unaffordable.

I said, there is NO AFFORDABLE ALTERNATIVE!!

They said they'd seek to repossess.

They didn't..Just more contact letters.

 

My disabled son and young daughter would be put in jeopardy too

so I can't risk losing our home but must prioritise first charge.

 

Our mortgage is up to date but has a draw down facility which I now have twigged

would have meant BH should NEVER have secured a loan against in the first place

as they could have ended up with no available equity.

 

There's no PPI to claim back.

 

My question now is..

How do i check whether there is a legal charge on our home by either BH or Idem?

 

Should I SAR BH or IEM for this information.

 

I have the original loan agreement for BH back in 2006

but no evidence of Land Registry documentation citing them as interested parties.

[Peterbard]

Hi

You can do this on line at the land registry. It costs around three pounds I believe. If you cannot find it come back and i will give you the link.

[dx100uk]

please jack

STICK TO THIS THREAD

and refrain from posting on other people old thread

else help get fragmented.

this is the 5th time you've done this.

 

 

dx

[jackthepippa]

Yes they are sending hard copies as I refuse to engage on the phone and vet all calls.

 

The transfer process was at the same time.

BH one day announcing they'd sold out to Idem

and then Idem said they now 'owned' the debt.

 

The letter from BH had a set a 'Q's and A's.

One which said can BH transfer their rights?

and of course their answer was yes.

 

So why are both not fighting for possession?

 

I've also had the threat of a home visit

but I know they have no rights and will be signposting them back to the stone they crawled out from.

 

One other question I have

is can they go for a CCJ instead or is this not an option on an originally secured loan?

 

If the OS wasn't so high I'd hold fire but it is 16K so I can't see this disappearing.

 

My next thoughts are to offer token repayments.

I doubt these will stop interest piling on though as they freeze it whilst on 3 monthly repayments and then restart it.

 

This is how BH always operated so I do suspect these guys are linked.

 

3 monthly reviews,

I find, are in themselves exhausting as the income and expenditure process is so lengthy.

especially when ther is no change in circumstances on the horizon, unreasonable and not necessary.

 

Great thank you for that.

 

Thank-you dodgeball

 

please jack

STICK TO THIS THREAD

and refrain from posting on other people old thread

else help get fragmented.

this is the 5th time you've done this.

 

dx

 

Hi Dx,

You must feel I am intentionally trying to sabotage other people's threads but I assure you that is not the case.

 

I thought it was ok to share experiences of DCA's on relevant and identical threads,

so that other members in the same boat know that they aren't alone and can compare typical tactics and sequences of events of the activity and outcomes.

 

Also to give a clue to the scale of the problem of financial misconduct and bad practise.

 

However, I appreciate the issue with fragmenting help so I do apologise if that has occurred.

[dx100uk]

jack

get an sar running to Blackhorse

get all the statements

and all the agreements.

[dx100uk]

Yes they are sending hard copies as I refuse to engage on the phone and vet all calls.

 

The transfer process was at the same time.

BH one day announcing they'd sold out to Idem

and then Idem said they now 'owned' the debt.

 

The letter from BH had a set a 'Q's and A's.

One which said can BH transfer their rights?

and of course their answer was yes.

 

So why are both not fighting for possession? the debt has been sold on.

I've also had the threat of a home visit

but I know they have no rights and will be signposting them back to the stone they crawled out from.

 

One other question I have

is can they go for a CCJ instead or is this not an option on an originally secured loan? - doubt they will

If the OS wasn't so high I'd hold fire but it is 16K so I can't see this disappearing.- who says the debt is not all PPI/Penalty charges to reclaim?

My next thoughts are to offer token repayments.

I doubt these will stop interest piling on though as they freeze it whilst on 3 monthly repayments and then restart it. - hold on that

This is how BH always operated so I do suspect these guys are linked. - nope BH sold it

3 monthly reviews,

I find, are in themselves exhausting as the income and expenditure process is so lengthy.

especially when ther is no change in circumstances on the horizon, unreasonable and not necessary.

 

Great thank you for that.

 

Thank-you dodgeball

 

Hi Dx,

You must feel I am intentionally trying to sabotage other people's threads but I assure you that is not the case.

 

I thought it was ok to share experiences of DCA's on relevant and identical threads,

so that other members in the same boat know that they aren't alone and can compare typical tactics and sequences of events of the activity and outcomes.

 

Also to give a clue to the scale of the problem of financial misconduct and bad practise.

 

However, I appreciate the issue with fragmenting help so I do apologise if that has occurred.

 

 

as you have done

you search for others with the same issue

so if YOU keep to YOUR THREAD

the others can read your progress

on YOUR thread

[Peterbard]

So is there a chargee registered ?