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Aterlatus

Court claim from Lowells for Lloyds overdraft

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Hi all,

 

I'm getting a bit lost with the huge wall of information available on the site, and I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction to help me straighten things out.

 

I've had several thousands taken from me in bank charges in the last 7 years (I know you can only claim for the last 6, found that much already!) mostly because the charges themselves have dropped me into an unauthorised overdraft so I've been charged on them too.

 

For the last 3 years I've been on benefits and the charges have kept coming in.

 

I'm not at the point where Lloyds TSBs new charges system is REALLY going to sting me. I was making payments on the overdraft of 10 pound a month and was a few days late paying one month. They put a 15 pound unauthorised overdraft fee on for that, then a further daily charge (I forget how much without checking the paperwork) to go with it. Because those charges were taken there's no way I can bring my account back into the "authorised" overdraft without starving my family!

 

Given the current situations with claims being put on hold while the test case goes through, what options do I have open to me? I'm getting calls from Lloyds TSB now threatening to pass the account off to debt collectors when it wouldn't have been a debt if it wasn't for the stupid new charging system! It's at the point where they'll charge 215 pound a month (15 pound unauthorised overdraft and 10 daily charges of 20 pound)!

 

Thanks for any advice or "direction pointing" anyone can offer,

 

Steve

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Hi and welcome to the CAG

 

Have you tried the Hardship route, where banks have to consider your circumstances due to the unfair charges causing you undue hardship, I am sure there are some links on here, or else someone more knowledgable can help

 

See this link it may help

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/138530-nationwide-bs-bank-charges.html?highlight=hardship

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PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

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Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Hi Aterlatus, and welcome to CAG

 

You may want to have a look at this letter here :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/42170-right-appropriation-stop-bank.html

 

You may be able to stop the bank taking all of your money before you have fed the family.

 

As far as the site goes there are some links in my signature that are worth a look at. They will help you find your way about

 

Lex

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Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Thanks for the advice so far :D

 

The Right of Appropriation is one I think I might put on the backburner in case I end up in trouble with my main account (joint account with the wife we started up when we married). The problems I'm having atm are with my personal account, which is mostly unused.

 

I think I might take a look into the hardship route though. Given that the account will remain over it's limits until the whole thing is settled, what's the score with the charges that'll keep coming in during that period? Is there any way to stop the charges racking up or would there just have to be another claim once the account is in credit again? I read that there's an act that says banks aren't allowed to take charges out of benefits payments - is there any way to stop them from doing so short of giving up the bank account?

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Well, today's the day. I've put together a Schedule of Charges and Preliminary Approach for Repayment and they'll go in the post this afternoon. I've dropped a note on the end of the Preliminary Approach for Repayment claiming hardship so let's see how it goes.

 

Wish me luck guys!

 

Teach them gits to wake me up on a Saturday morning threatening me :p

 

Following on from advice I got on this forum, I'm planning to reclaim my charges from LloydsTSB claiming financial hardship to make sure it's processed. The account in question is rarely used any more and is still overdrawn (I was paying it back at 10 pound a month in agreement with them but because I was a few days late one month they stuffed on the charges and now on my very low income it's impossible for me to bring it back into the "authorised" overdraft limit). They've been threatening me with passing it off to a debt collector, so I tacked that paragraph on at the end saying I consider the account to be in dispute so they shouldn't apply more charges until the issue's resolved.

 

Can someone take a looksie over the letter and tell me if all is OK so I can pop it in the post this afternoon please? Obviously personal details are removed for the site.

 

In considering this request for repayment, your attention is drawn to the Press Release issued by the FSA on 27th July, which states:

"Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'

Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS."

I believe that my personal circumstances fall within this category because I have been in recipt of incapacity benefits since April 2005. I am currently in arrears with rent payments and several creditors thus excessive delay will cause undue hardship.

Given the nature of this claim, I consider this account to be in dispute and no further action or payment shall be made until this matter is resolved.

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

Assuming the letter is OK and goes in the post today, I'll keep you all informed about the progress.

 

Thanks for all the great support guys and gals

 

 

 

Edit: Removed a large portion of the letter. I originally found the template on the wiki, which didn't suggest that the templates should not be reproduced on the forums. I've just left the amendments at the bottom in tact. Sorry for any inconvenience caused. The original template, in full, can be found in the templates library - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/671-2-letter-preliminary-approach.html :D

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All the best with that, Aterlatus.

 

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.


 
 

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One thing that is not correct is the address that you are sending it to - unless that is also a dummy address for posting it on here. Correct contact details can be found here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/236-lloydstsb-contact-details.html

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One thing that is not correct is the address that you are sending it to - unless that is also a dummy address for posting it on here. Correct contact details can be found here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/236-lloydstsb-contact-details.html

 

 

 

Thanks for the link. The address I posted is the one I sent to, since that's the one listed on their site etc. as primary contact address. What should I do now? Send another copy to one of the addresses in that post or just stick with the one I have and see if they reply?

 

Surely if it's listed as their contact address then all mail received there is just filtered off to the right departments? Then I guess we are talking the same banks that are handing out these charges in the first place so nothing is impossible!

 

You know it's right there as the first sticky as well. I feel like a right prat for missing that one. :S

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Send a copy to the address listed in the link I think the postcode you are using is just a returned mail address

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It's the "By Post" contact address listed on their site ( Lloyds TSB - Contact us ) Like I said, it's already in the mail - sent recorded this afternoon. If they sign for it then I'm set anyway aren't I?

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Good Luck

 

If they are continually phoning send them the Phone Harrasment letter aswell

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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...The Right of Appropriation is one I think I might put on the backburner in case I end up in trouble with my main account (joint account with the wife we started up when we married). The problems I'm having atm are with my personal account, which is mostly unused.

 

I think I might take a look into the hardship route though. Given that the account will remain over it's limits until the whole thing is settled, what's the score with the charges that'll keep coming in during that period? Is there any way to stop the charges racking up or would there just have to be another claim once the account is in credit again? I read that there's an act that says banks aren't allowed to take charges out of benefits payments - is there any way to stop them from doing so short of giving up the bank account?

The following 2 Threads contain some further info that U MAY like to consider??...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/135403-nationwide-taking-benefits.html#post1431000

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/118064-nationwide-hardship.html#post1201294

 

 

...:-)


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Hi all and thanks for the continuing feedback.

 

The day after I sent the first letter I got a call from their collections department to arrange a repayment plan which I figured can't hurt (stops any more charges racking up in the short term - I don't like the idea of adding charges to the list as I go complicating things!) and they've agreed to stop charging interest for the next 10 months at which point they'll review.

 

Hopefully by then they'll crumble on the charges issue and I'll be paying in enough to easily clear that debt. /grin

 

So far as a parachute account goes, I've not really used this account for a long time now (since shortly before I got married, me and the wife opened a joint account) so it's not too much of an issue them taking charges out of benefits anymore.

 

It was so damn hard biting my lip without saying anything nasty when the collections department called but I was a good boy guv, honest ;)

 

They did manage to cock it up though and I got another call last night to straighten things out (first guy had got his dates mixed up on the system, so although the agreement was due to kick in on the 30th and that was written in the notes, the system thought it was the 20th and triggered an automated call). If I get another call from them again I'll request they stop and put that letter PGH linked to good use.

 

Fingers crossed all goes well now. They've got 10 days and counting before the second letter goes in the post. I almost hope they don't pay up though - a nice 800 quid goes on top from interest if they drag it to court!

 

I've been reading ahead of myself again and I noticed that on the N1 template it states "yada yada entered an agreement on yada yada". I've no idea when I opened my account - should I try and get that info from my branch "while we're friends" or should I reword the N1 when I have to fill that out?

 

Just given myself another fright - once a court date comes through I'll have to supply copies of statements according to the other threads I'm reading now. I got the info from downloading statements from the LloydsTSB website rather than a SAR and the originals are long destroyed now. Would the downloaded CSV be sufficient? If not, would copies of the online statements do the job, or do they need to be actual originals (IE, needing to file a SAR ASAP)?

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Online statements are fine if they go back far enough

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Thanks for the reply Nic. One worry down, about 20,000,000 to go ;)

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I've been reading ahead of myself again and I noticed that on the N1 template it states "yada yada entered an agreement on yada yada". I've no idea when I opened my account - should I try and get that info from my branch "while we're friends" or should I reword the N1 when I have to fill that out?

 

I would ask your branch for the date the account was opened. Much better to be precise on the N1. Otherwise it may look to a judge that you haven't done your homework.:)

 

Els


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Got the date it opened from a branch yesterday - damn, didn't realise how long I'd had that same account number. 1996 - I feel old ;p

 

Got a reply from LloydsTSB today - the typical "We'll investigate your complaint and get back to you when we feel like it" carbon copy letter. A week tomorrow and the LBA will be heading their way.

 

Thanks again for all the replies, you guys are invaluable :D

 

Now there's a thought - where should I send the LBA? I've got a choice of the same address I sent the prelim to, the return address I got this recent reply from or one of the addresses listed in the sticky. lol

 

Went through my online statements tonight and printed all the ones that list charges to PDFs (33 of them in all). I only need the statements showing when charges were taken and not the statements that show the bounced direct debits or unauthorised overdrafts right? Also, is it worth me editing the PDFs to highlight the lines that show the charges? They're generally surrounded by some debits of an, errr, "personal" nature, if ya know what I mean. ;)

 

Could really do with some suggestions about where to send the LBA now peeps - due to be sent this Thursday. I got a choice of:

 

a) The same address I sent the prelim to (which was replied to, albeit with a standard letter)

b) The address the above mentioned letter came from

c) One of the addresses listed in the sticky, head office or such like

 

Thanks for any tips :)

 

 

PS I was off the first page in less than a week - way to go all you LloydsTSB peeps :D

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Personally I would send it to the adress that you received the response from

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Well, today it's two weeks on and it's LBA day, but reading some other threads it got me pondering...

 

Should I send out an LBA drafted from the consumerwiki today, or should I wait a few days longer to see if any new ones crop up on the forums which take the test case into account?

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I would just send off the LBA. We are currently updating templates following the test case result but you can still send the LBA as it is.


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Got a reply from LloydsTSB today - the typical "We'll investigate your complaint and get back to you when we feel like it" carbon copy letter. A week tomorrow and the LBA will be heading their way.

 

 

I feel the need to expand on this a little, in order that anyone who comes across my thread in their own pursuits of LloydsTSB will know what to expect!

 

The letter itself came from "Customer Services Recovery Centre" in Andover, Hampshire.

 

 

It lists a complain reference, followed by a typical template (you think they have a banksactiongroup.co.uk going where they share templates? :p) the first three paragraphs refer to the typical complaints procedure with the usual "I'm sorry to learn you feel you have cause to complain" stuff. It mentions they expect enquiries to be completed within the next four weeks.

 

There's then a final paragraph bolted on at the end, almost like it was an afterthought for the regular letter.

 

If your complain is about the level, fairness or lawfulness of overdraft bank charges, then a different process that we've agreed with the Financial Services Authority will apply. We will write to you shortly to explain how we'll handle that complaint and what steps we will take to protect your rights. In responding to you we will also consider all the things you have raised in your letter, as well as any further information we have about your financial circumstances.
Digitally signed (you can even see the pixelated background of the box where the digital copy isn't quite white!) by 'Mr X' of "Customer Service Recovery".

 

 

All very polite and friendly, for now. I've always been a shy and timid kinda guy, but the way the banks have been treating consumers (particularly me! :p) really started to get my goat up and anger is one hell of a driving force for this stuff. Naturally, I'll keep updates on here of any further developments. I don't have anything of monetary value to give to CAG for all the support right now, so I hope my continued breakdown for others pondering the process will show appreciation enough until times change :)

 

 

Edit: Thanks for the reply Rory. I'll get that put together and in the post this afternoon.

 

I've just started putting my LBA together, as per the template on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

 

I'd like someone to take a look over my hardship claim and say whether it's appropriate or not? Is it going into too much detail? Is it coming across too whiney?

 

Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS."

 

I believe that my personal circumstances fall within this category because I have been in receit of incapacity benefits since April 2005. I am also currently in arrears with rent payments and several creditors. My home is currently in a poor state in need of furniture and carpetting. Therefore, excessive delay will cause undue hardship on my family and I.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, in my prelim I mentioned that I considered the account to be in dispute (see first post for full text). Since then I've made arrangements with their collections centre to start paying off the overdraft @ 10 pound a month. Should I keep pushing for the dispute route instead? If not, should I mention that I've made these arrangements in the letter with something like this:

 

 

 

I have recently made arrangements with your Collections Centre to start making repayments against the outstanding overdraft. In a letter dated 21/04/2008 a new Planned Overdraft limit of £550 was placed on the account, which is to be paid by 10 monthly installments of £10.
You're continued help and reassurance is greatly appreciated - in all honesty the whole process is quite daunting, maybe even terrifying!

 

 

 

Edit: I also skipped the part about:

 

You are also reminded of my request that you forward a copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©, and your continued failure to provide them will be brought to the attention of the court, should it be necessary to commence a county court action.
because I've never actually requested this (was nothing about it in the prelim from the wiki and I never sent a SAR because I had the statements online). At the time there was a list of past T&Cs in the stickies but this seems to be missing now. Should I request it with the LBA?

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Hi Aterlatus

 

I don't think your hardship paragraph will do any harm (I don't expect it will do any good either since banks don't seem actually to read these letters).

 

[Pedantic] on my famiy and me[/pedantic]

 

If you are claiming the account is in dispute just because of unlawful charges, IMHO you shouldn't push it. This paragraph is much better grounds for a court to force them to be reasonable.

 

Yes, rewrite the T&Cs paragraph as a request in the LBA - make sure you mention pre-action protocol 4.6©.


Steven

 

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Thanks a lot Steven, I'll get the LBA in the post tomorrow. The continued support of all you guys and gals is invaluable :)

 

I really should proof read stuff a few more times before I send it out - turns out I messed up the dates in my LBA (both the current date and the "I sent the prelim on xxxx" date).

 

Will this cause problems? Do I need to resend or should I just make sure everything's right when it comes to the N1? Should I just find a rock to hide under where I can't make these silly mistakes? :S

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If you think it is serious, send a revised version - chances are tey won't actually read it though


Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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I don't know if it's serious or not though - can it be used against me if this makes it to court? Or as long as the N1 is perfect does the court not care about anything that was sent before?

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