Court claim from Lowells for Lloyds overdraft

[slick132]

Hi Aterlatus - responding to your Report asking for help.

 

As this is an Allocation Hearing and you've not been told to File and Serve anything beforehand, there's no need to send SC&M anything just now.

 

Looking through your thread, I didn't see mention made at the AQ stage of the site's Draft Directions. I'm sure you included this with the AQ but, if not, see here and print off 3 copies to take to court - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html. It will help your case if the Judge adopts the Draft Directions.

 

You've already got the Allocation Hearing Witness Statement ready so have 3 copies of that too.

 

You could also print off and take 3 copies of this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/115276-skeleton-argument-stay-hearing.html. Make sure you're familiar with how and why you're asking for the case NOT to be Stayed.

 

It looks like you had the Hardship element covered in the AQ - have you completed the I&E sheet ready to take (3 copies). Perhaps a sheet showing your current standing re debts generally to confirm beyond your I&E that you are struggling under a burden of debt.

 

Finally, print off (3 copies of) the Hardship Waiver statement from July 2007 and the subsequent OFT state't about the continuation agreement re Waivers.

 

As there's only 10 mins scheduled, you may only get a brief opportunity to present your case so have some bullet points prepared to support your case's merits. Hope it goes well for you.

[Aterlatus]

I'm having trouble finding a solid copy of the hardship waiver and subsequent statement beyond the small paragraph copied into most of the templates. I searched all over the OFT site and couldn't find the relevant press release. If anyone has any links to these two, they'd be much appreciated. Putting everything in order today ready for tomorrow. Wish me luck!

[PippaB]

Hi Aterlatus,

 

Just wishing you masses of luck for tomorrow; fingers crossed!

 

I'm interested as I've just written to Barclays to request they look at my case under the grounds of financial hardship. There doesn't seem to be much info out there on anyone being successful but here's to hoping.

 

Best wishes,

Pippa.

[slick132]

Managed to find the FSA Press Release of 21st July 2008. Sections 19 and 20 and Annex 2 may be useful - http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/disp_monthly.pdf

[slick132]

This is the original FSA announcement of 27th July 2007 Waiver where Hardship is mentioned - FSA grants waiver to firms on complaints handling

 

and this is the 21st July 2008 continuation - FSA grants new waiver to firms on complaints handling

[Aterlatus]

You're a godsend Slick - thanks for finding them for me. Maybe it was just the tiredness, but I couldn't see them for looking this morning.

 

Pippa: Of course I'll keep the thread updated to let you all know how it goes, good or bad. If I can give just one person a little insight or put a fear aside about their own case then I'll feel better about all the advice I've taken already

 

Expect a full and honest 'debrief' on the allocation hearing tomorrow evening

[havinastella]

Good luck for tomorrow

 

 

Jogs

[slick132]

Lol,

 

Didn't help that I was hunting for OFT stuff when it's the FSA giving out the statements.

 

Oh....Wear a suit, or at least a shirt and tie. Be respectful and call the Judge sir or madam. Speak slowly and loudly when required and don't get angry or intimidated. (Apologies if any of this is stating the obvious but some peeps don't know what to do or expect. )

 

Hope it goes well for you tomorrow and good luck.

Edited September 11, 2008 by slick132
add'n

[Aterlatus]

Ahhh well, it was worth a try but the inevitable strikes again. Stayed, for 12 months or until the end of the test case. Whichever is sooner.

 

There was a few minor moral victories along the way though. I was caught out by the judge on my templates (he even recognised them as CAG, lol). Other side smiled and he turned to them and said "The defence was particularly predictable too". Smile gone. Mwuhahahaaaaaa

 

They were asking for an indeterminate stay until the test case was resolved and the judge said "That's not how we do things in Birkenhead". Then ordered the 12 month stay instead.

 

So yeah, all in all - I'm another cog in the system whose hardship claims were blatantly ignored by the banks, the solicitors and then the courts. At least I'm already in there for when the test case is resolved though. He did offer me one tip mind - said there was no way the bank would be able to take my to court over the overdraft until the stay was lifted (which I kinda knew already) so I might just have to send a nice letter to TSB's collections department now telling them to shove it (been paying £10 per month).

 

The result doesn't surprise me in the least - I must've come across as a bit of a chancer. He treated me as someone who didn't have a clue and started saying "There's thousands of these cases all stayed in the system already. You wouldn't know this, but there was also a few cases that went to court and they lost!" I replied "Yeah, I know about them. There wasn't enough evidence provided for one and the other one didn't turn up at court." and the topic was changed...

 

Is it worth putting a complaint into the FOS at this point or would they just tell me to wait until courts done with? After re-reading their press releases they're very specific in saying they won't put any complaints involving financial hardship on hold.

 

 

For others in a similar position? I'd say give it a try but don't get your hopes up. Every court and every judge is different, and you might find one who takes pity on your situation.

[slick132]

Sorry to hear this but it comes as no surprise.

 

I'd defo try FOS route if you've read the Waiver state's and think you tick the right boxes.

[Ashwall]

Hi there,

Well done on your court appearence sorry to hrae they have stayed it for 12 months though!

Im now getting in a wee bit of a flap trying to get all the docs ready to submit to court on 10th sept.

throwing rotten eggs.. sounds awesone lol defo on that

[Aterlatus]

Im now getting in a wee bit of a flap trying to get all the docs ready to submit to court on 10th sept.

 

Hope that was a typo and I'm not being the bearer of bad news Ash, but it's the 14th today...

[PippaB]

Hi there,

 

Congrats on making it through court at all - must be said!

 

I don't have the time or courage to go through the court process I don't think. I'm not even sure I understand half the conversations on these boards! lol They'd make mince meat of me.

 

No word from Barclays yet, 4 days to go, not sure what my next step should be, will hunt down info tonight if nothing in the post. I'm not particularly hopeful and have resigned myself to waiting till the court case is decided. At least I've put my claim in now, most of the work done.

 

Thanks for taking the time to let us know how it went - can't have been fun!

 

Pippa.

[Aterlatus]

Well, a year passes by and there's progress of sorts...

 

Got a nice letter hit the doormat today. They're threatening me with a default for the account, albeit a little indirectly. The letter they've sent is an "Enforcement Notice (Served Under Section 76(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974)" but it's the standard threat letter giving me until 21st September to cough up and includes the OFT guidance on Default.

 

Is there any purdy templates that will help me tell them where they can shove their default, or do I need to get creative?

 

Also, the case was stayed last year for one year or until the test case was fully completed, whichever was sooner. What can I expect to happen within the next month? Do I need to contact anyone or should I expect the courts to contact me?

[slick132]

The courts last order should specify who is supposed to do what.

 

I'd expect the court to extend the Stay on it's own initiative giving interested parties leave to objecting if they wanted. But I don't see any merit in objecting whilst the OFT case is unresolved.

 

Maybe a quick letter in reply to the threatened Default reminding the bank of their obligations whilst the test case in ongoing.

 

Also, see here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/149449-put-your-credit-reference.html#post1581179

[Aterlatus]

Bloomin' 'ell - two years flown by when I wasn't looking...

 

Anyhows, TSB have started pestering me to repay the overdraft now and it's been sent off to Moorcroft. Obviously they won't get a penny even if they take it to court because the other case is still stayed, but I took it as a timely reminder to pop in and catch up on things.

 

Has anyone had any luck since the test case? I've had a poke around but it all seems a little quiet - must be looking in the wrong forums!

[jd22]

I'm in exactly the same position, with the Bank still not reviewing the hardship aspect even though their Soilcitors stated back in May that they would be. Another hearing at Court is scheduled for September.

 

I also, however, have a letter from the Bank's solicitors stating they would not in any event refund any penalty charges.....does their confirmation that they believe they are penalty charges make any difference?

[slick132]

The OFT test case ruling from the Supreme Court went in the banks' favour.

 

The only way forward with current a/c bank charges is if the bank has treated you unfairly in some specific way(s) or they have made errors in the handling of your a/c.

 

You may still try reclaiming charges if you fall into the Financial Hardship category. Read more on this in the Article in the Bank Template Library.

 

[jd22]

Thank you for that post. My point, in a way, was in relation to the fact that throughout the OFT case the Banks had argued that their charges were not penal and now here we have the Bank's own Solicitor's openly referring to the charges as, in fact, being penalties.

 

I have 4 loan accounts with LTSB with balances all due to the Bank and with no ability, income or capital wise, to discharge those. My best case scenario at the moment, I suppose, would be to arrange with the Bank that any charges refund would effectively offset the liabilities (the figures either way are fairly evenly Matched) and we call it quits. Does anyone have any thoughts on the likelihood of that happening?

[landy_alert]

Thank you for that post. My point, in a way, was in relation to the fact that throughout the OFT case the Banks had argued that their charges were not penal and now here we have the Bank's own Solicitor's openly referring to the charges as, in fact, being penalties.

 

I have 4 loan accounts with LTSB with balances all due to the Bank and with no ability, income or capital wise, to discharge those. My best case scenario at the moment, I suppose, would be to arrange with the Bank that any charges refund would effectively offset the liabilities (the figures either way are fairly evenly Matched) and we call it quits. Does anyone have any thoughts on the likelihood of that happening?

 

Hi jd22:)

 

I tried something similar with Lloyds - for a charges refund to be offset against o/d balance and loans, before the Test Case result.........they weren't in the least bit interested in playing ball. I should imagine they'd be even less interested now they believe they won - although anything's worth a try I suppose.

 

Do you have you own thread on this btw? It would be a good idea to start one if not as here on Aterlatus's thread your answers will get confused with their's

 

Apologies to Aterlatus for hijacking!

 

Landy x

[Aterlatus]

Right, had a letter from Moorcroft now - a "Notice of possible litigation" (lovely how they refuse to commit...).

 

I'm going to draft a letter explaining that I won't be paying them anything until the current litigation is over and done with, but is there a nice way I can tell them that comic sans ms is REALLY not a good font for professional letters?

 

I'm thinking maybe a note dropped in the back. :grin:

 

If anyone has any suggestions for what to include in the letter then I'm open to all feedback. Should I mention that my case isn't based on the section that was argued in the test case or leave it for if they reply trying to claim it's all over and done with?

[Aterlatus]

Used the template from the library and today had another letter from Moorcroft. This time very apologetic and promising they had no idea the account was in dispute. Give them their dues on that one - I've no doubt TSB neglected to pass on that particular piece of information!

 

The account with Moorcroft is now on hold until TSB come back with something else.

[Aterlatus]

TSB have taken their next step - applied to the court to have it struck out. Guess they really want that £500 (remaining OD when they closed the account).

 

Is it a lost cause now, or something still worth fighting? If it's still worth pursuing, what should I be telling the court?

 

Thanks.

[slick132]

Hi Ater,

 

To my knowledge, there's been no recent success in reclaiming bank charges.

 

I see no point in challenging the application to Strike Out. This leaves you with the possibility of costs against you so you may want to contact the sol'rs acting for the bank to see if they will agree to let you discontinue without costs. See what they say.

 

You should also consider your position about repaying the remaining o/d. Perhaps, if you can't repay it, put together a Budget Planner to show what you can afford to pay the bank. This will show in your favour if they consider court action against you for the o/d.

 

8-)

[Aterlatus]

Been going over my credit history tonight and it's surprisingly clean compared to where I was just a few short years ago.

 

 

I'm down to one default. It was only recently (the end of January) that my bank charges claim was finally struck out.

 

 

Literally days later (early February) LloydsTSB put a default on my file.

 

I want to get rid of it so I can feel shiny and clean again.

 

 

Anyone have any advice?

 

 

I'm happy to sort out repayments against the 'debt' (I still refuse to admit they're right to charge £220 in a month for one mistake!)

 

 

if needs be, which current stands at a little under £500,

 

 

but does anyone think I have a chance at getting them to remove the default too?