Court claim from Lowells for Lloyds overdraft

[steven4064]

The N1 is what matters - the other things need to exist to satisfy pre-action protocols

[Aterlatus]

Thanks again Steven, I'll carry on as I am now then. Off to court this week to pick up the forms (can't use MCOL because I'm trying to get a freebie/discounted costs for low income).

 

Of course, that is unless they pay up in the next two weeks. Yeah, that's gonna happen...

[steven4064]

Hi Aterlatus

 

MCOL isn't a good idea anyway - causes far too many problems. You don't need to go to court to get an N1, you can download it here (the form for fee remission is here and the corresponding guidance here)

[Aterlatus]

Thanks for the links Steven

 

Got a fresh reply from TSB today - seems they've updated their standard letters for the test case too. Here's a few choice quotes from the letter that gave me a bit of a giggle...

 

We believe that our current account fees and charges are clear and represent a fair charge for a banking service that is valued by our customers. however, Lloyds TSB (along with a number of other banks) has now become involved in legal proceedings with the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) in relation to bank charges which we believe will resolve the legal issues regarding the fairness and legality of your bank charges.

 

You may have heard that a decision has now been issued in the proceedings. This was a judgement on certain preliminary legal issues only. The court decided that unauthorised overdraft charges are not penalties but that they are assessable for fairness. The court also decided that our terms are in plain and intelligible language. The court has not yet decided whether the charges are unfair, and further court hearings will be required before there is any final decision."

 

Way to downplay the test case TSB - I particularly like their creative twisting of words ("are in plain and intelligible language") to try and make it look as though the case went in their favour

 

In common with other businesses, we do not provide a precise breakdown of how we arrive at our service charges.

 

I love that bit. If they don't tell us how they arrived at the figure, how can we ever assess it for fairness? I get the feeling they're shooting themselves in the foot with that line.

 

The whole letter keeps reminding me of the fact that it'll take forever to go through the courts and they'll automatically apply for a stay and all that nonsense. What more could is to be expected at this point though? Of course they'll try and stall

 

Oh well, another week and I'll be putting the N1 together. Thanks for the continued help everyone

[Aterlatus]

Well, this one's been idling around long enough I think.

 

I *was* waiting for them to take the last lot of charges out of my account before I filed the N1. Beginning of June came and no charges are taken. A week later, still none. Almost three weeks later I get sick of waiting and go ask in the branch - there's no record of any pending charges. Guess they wrote off the last £215, but hey either way if they aren't taking more it's N1 time.

 

Gonna download the forms today and start filling everything in. Has there been any changes in timescales with the latest developments? I expect it'll still be stayed and force me to push on the hardship route to get things moving again.

[Enron]

Think its gonna be a case of filing your N1.

 

Got mine in earlier this week for one charge of £39, which Lloyds refused to comment on past the fact that they were involved in court case. So now the claimed amount goes upto £70.

 

Will argue that the claim shouldn't be stayed, this is an easy matter to judge, if Lloyds TSB Bank Plc believe they're charges to be fair and reasonable they should be willing to validate them by providing a full breakdown of their pre-estimate costs (i.e. request the draft order be adopted). In the even they don't comply as par the draft order their defence gets struck out.

[Aterlatus]

My N1 went in this afternoon - pleasantly free of charges given the fact my family's living off income support atm.

 

Saying that though, I think a lot more people than would realise are entitled to a full remission (exemption only applies when you're on a means-tested benefit, although at the end of the day both terms mean you don't pay ). A family with one child can earn up to almost £19,000 before they're required to pay anything towards the costs :o

 

The full table of numbers can be found in the guidance notes for the EX160 form here on page 10. Even if you're a little over the limit you can still get a partial remission to keep things cheaper

 

 

I'll be sure to put my details in over on the main page when I get a case number. Here's hoping for a relatively painless journey from this point forth (yeah, right :S).

[Aterlatus]

Yesterday I got my letter from [problem], today the NOI turned up. The [problem] letter appears to be their defence and a request for a stay. Is it now that I draft together my "don't stay this one, financial hardship!" letter or do I wait for the court to ask me my opinion? They conveniently mentioned parts of the FOS directive in their letter and even more conveniently neglected to mention the part about financial hardship. It'll be damn satisfying to throw that one back at them!

 

Thanks for the continued support everyone. I know I'm a PITA with all the questions but to me the court is a big and scary place that I really don't want to annoy by doing things wrong!

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this one? Do I have to wait for the stay to go on before I can ask for it to be removed or can I oppose it now before it gets to that point? Any forms I'd need to fill in or is it just a simple letter explaining sent to the court?

[steven4064]

I would copy the letter to the court saying you oppose the stay. It may not be the correct procedure but what do you know, you are only a litigant in persion.

 

It won't hurt and is a 'just in case' the court don't do things properly abd send you a notice of intention to stay the case which youwould be able to object to.

[Aterlatus]

Allocation Questionnaire for small claims track turned up in the post today - here's hoping they don't change their minds and stay it. Could be over by Christmas (in time for the new baby, due January 3rd!)

 

Right, allocation questionnaire is filled out and the draft order for directions is attached. Going in the post to SC&M and being filed at court tomorrow.

 

c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are unfair

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon

 

Them two worry me slightly in that I'll have lots more reading to do around site in order to put them together, but with you guys and gals around to help when the time comes I'm sure it'll all come together nicely!

 

I ended up a bit flummoxed trying to put together a letter stating why I object to any stay so thought I'd give it a month and see how things progress. Unless anyone suggests otherwise, I'll bung an extra paragraph on the section G now with my reasons. Don't wanna look like a prat in all this, but as Steve says - what do I know? I'm only a litigant in person

 

Oh god I'm not even halfway through the budget sheet and I've already got a negative sum. This is seriously depressing. Think I'll skip that part for now and put it together properly with the wife tomorrow, keep it for if they apply for a stay after the AQ.

 

I've just been flicking through some of the stickies and I came across a gem in this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/78216-aqs-stays-strike-out.html

 

I figured it can't hurt to add the following bits to the Section G just to try and stop them applying for a stay from this point on.

 

The Claimant is aware that the defendant is now routinely requesting a stay in proceedings in claims of this nature. The claimant is strongly opposed to such a stay, upon the basis that the defendant, both during and prior to this litigation, has rebutted or ignored all prior attempts by the claimant to narrow the issues in dispute, or otherwise engage in meaningful dialogue which may have facilitated an amicable settlement to these matters.

In considering any request for a stay in proceedings, your attention is drawn to the Press Release issued by the FSA on 27th July, which states:

 

"Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'

Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS."

 

The claimant has been made aware of the defendant's financial difficulties on several occasions yet made no such attempt to resolve this matter amicably, and any such request by the defendant is highly likely to be an attempt to further frustrate and delay proceedings. The pattern of settled cases so far would strongly suggest that the defendant does not intend to settle these matters until a hearing date is imminent.

 

Accordingly, the claimant respectfully requests that any such request by the defendant is turned aside.

Sooo, does that look good to you legal guys? Did this amateur do you proud, or do I just come across as a complete tit who wouldn't know the legal process if it ran over him crossing the street? If all's well, I'll print and post today

 

ARGH, editing's really giving me problems tonight (just locking up) so I should mention that I added another line after the FSA quote:

 

"The claimant has been made aware of the defendant's financial difficulties on several occasions yet made no such attempt to resolve this matter amicably"

 

Realised that I hadn't mentioned I was a hardship case and instead just posted some random quote in it

[kia]

well its sounds ok to me but ill bump this see what anyone else thinks :)xxkia

[havinastella]

Looks ok to me.

 

Jogs

[Ashwall]

Hi there,

Welcome aboard the good ship ashwall .. nice to hear from you.

 

Il pop by later have a look at the defense from LTSB, It seems to pretty standard stuff and we all seem to be getting the same .. mistakes included Lol. (section 9 relating to costs as Jogs pointed out.. rightly so)

 

Ash

[Aterlatus]

Seems I'm spoilt - I got three pages to mine!

 

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

 

Sorry but you'll have to click to view - upped them at a fairly high res and I don't wanna stretch the forum view for anyone

 

At what point do they normally try and get a stay? I recall it was mentioned at the end of their first letter (the acknowledgement thingy). Does this mean the court aren't staying it, or do they apply officially after the AQ?

[havinastella]

Hi Aterlatus,

 

Ash and mine are different as we are taking LLoyds to Court for Non Compliance of SAR.

 

Jogs

[Aterlatus]

Yeah that one's clicked now after I had a proper re-read of your thread ;p

 

Something springs to mind though. It was the 21st June I filed at court. If my memory isn't fading in old age, then it was considered served on the 25th June. The defence is dated 27th July, 32 days later (or 4 days over the 28 day limit). Am I getting things mixed up? Because I filed on a Friday afternoon, could it have just been ignored until the Monday putting TSB right on the line instead. If they are outside the limits, would the court give two hoots about it or would they just carry on as is because it was only a few days out?

 

Thanks again for any replies all

[Robdblynd]

The court normally allow a couple of days discretion because they're dealing with so many cases.

 

I've just read through the thread and it all looks ok to me.

 

I've not actually had a case stayed but I believe it happens when the AQs aare filed, they normally wait for a court date and then apply to stay.

[Aterlatus]

Popped the AQ into the court this morning and asked how they're handling stay requests. She said that all cases are going off to the judge, but they're staying most (not all) of them. Fingers crossed the comments I put in were enough for the judge to refuse a stay. If not I'll just have to apply afterwards.

 

Thanks again for the continued support

[MARTIN3030]

So did you mention that it was a hardship case ?

You could have included the press releases/guidance from the OFT website in particular the continuation agreements of the waivers.

Just a case of wait and see.

[Aterlatus]

Yeah I popped that section on page 2 onto the section g so hopefully the judge will take it into account. If not and it's stayed I'll just have to do the full I&E report and try to get it removed. Those things are always terrifying - by the time I've got regular bills and priority debts on there I'm already in the negative - end up cutting corners on food (beans on toast, mmmmmm) and stuff just to make up enough for the debts so I can't imagine any judge on the planet not agreeing I'm in financial hardship!

 

Thanks for the reply Martin

[Ashwall]

Hi Aterlatus.

No honey im south mores the pity i agree a buddy would be awesome! Sometimes this seems so daunting.

 

Jogs and i have a different case going on we are pursuing breech SAR.. bless him he is holding my cyber hand here. Bags of support on this forum so im sure we will be ok.

 

Ash

[Aterlatus]

I've got a few friends down Cardiff way so if I visit them anytime we'll have to meet up to throw rotten eggs at every bank we can find

 

So long as we all stick together, we'll all come out the other side the victors

[Aterlatus]

Well, there's some progress.

 

Got a letter from the courts today, Notice of Hearing. There's going to be an allocation hearing on 12th September for 10 minutes. At this point I'm borderline terrified, lol.

 

Attached is a General Form of Judgement or Order:

 

Before *THE JUDGE* sitting at *THE COURT ADDRESS*.

 

Upon the Courts own motion. The Court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to the order, you must make an application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

The matter is hereby listed for an allocation hearing on 12th September 2008, at *TIME*, for 10 minutes.

 

 

There's no request for me to submit anything beforehand, but I guess I have to go armed with the details from the Allocation Hearing Witness Statement and feel comfortable discussing the issues in brief? Or am I reading too much into this and getting ahead of myself again? I'd rather be over-prepared than under-prepared so if anyone's had a recent allocation hearing and has any tips they'd be greatly appreciated!

[Aterlatus]

Nobody got any tips for this one? I'm away for a couple of days now so gonna sort it all out mid-week.

[Aterlatus]

Got a skeleton argument through the mail this morning from SC&M which surprised me as the judgement for the allocation hearing didn't mention anything about submitting anything at all, from either side.

 

I'll get the full thing uploaded later today for reference, but for now I could really do with advice on whether I need to send anything to SC&M or the Courts before Friday or if I can just need to take it with me.