Mortgage debt from Germany

[penmarine]

Hi Caggers recently returned from Germany and have a couple of questions.

 

We had a house, sold it and owe the bank the mortgage difference. We signed contracts for the house sale prior to leaving germany a few weeks ago. The Bank as far as I'm aware have not stopped teh sale (which is not surprising to be honest) as they'll want as much back as possible. I know the buyers have until Jan 12 to pay up and the solicitor we used to use in germany is truly exceptional and would have informed us if there were any problems. We know we owe money just not the amount and we want to pay it back anyway, well as much as we can afford until the better half gets a better job. The bank knows my new address etc in the UK, so it's not like we've done a runner. Now my question is why haven't the bank got in contact to say by the way you owe us this much money how you gonna pay it?

 

Also due to the signing of contracts and the wife stopping work, I'm not paying the full monthly repayment as normal.

 

Ta

 

PM

[cerberusalert]

Now my question is why haven't the bank got in contact to say by the way you owe us this much money how you gonna pay it?

They're probably waiting until the sale is completed and monies exchanged before they can determine the full shortfall. The legal and conveyancing fees etc will still have to be deducted from the sale first.

[penmarine]

Hi there, teh wife has told me that she received an email from the solicitors to say that the house has gone through as per the date on the contracts. That was at the start of January 12, I've still not heard anything from the bank though to say what the outstanding amount owed is. Should I contact the bank, as I've not been paying the monthly payment since coming back to the UK in November now. I just cannot physically afford that much just on my wage and the wife isn't working yet either. Its a simple choice of pay bills and eat now that I'm in the UK or not eat and pay the bank the monthly amount! I've opted for the pay bills from the UK and eat. I'm more than happy to pay back what I owe but not at the original amount and probably nowhere near what I was paying.

 

I've also had a couple of letters from old companies asking for money - telephone company etc that have now been given to various german solicitors to chase from the looks of it. They are asking for x amount of euros paid into bank account x or else they are off to court. Now my understanding was they could only go/take me to court if I was a resident in the country which I'm not anymore. These other "debts" range from 130 - 1200 euro, depending on which company it is. After reading on the overseas part of the forum I'm a bit confused as to whether they can take me to court when I'm not there, from some of the threads I've read (a very helpful one was to do with BMW finance and the links included by Brig and Gerson). Am I just better off waiting until they get sick of me ignoring them and sell it onto a UK DCA or try and deal with them directly? Knowing what these companies are like in Germany, they have even less sympathy than UK DCAs and the language barrier is a bit of a pain aswell. I'd like to say I'm concerned about the smaller debts but to be honest I'm not, I'm concerned about the lack of contact from the bank and how much they want off me!

 

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers PM

[cerberusalert]

They will huff and puff but given the amounts they are claiming I doubt whether they'll attempt to obtain a CCJ, it just wouldn't be economical for them so they'll more than likely just sell the debts on to a UK debt collector. As they are non-priority debts even if you only paid £1 per month it shows you aren't trying to evade your debts. Given your circumstances even in the unlikely event it ended up in a UK court a Judge wouldn't order you to pay much more.

 

As for the mortgage, I'd wait until they contact you. Obviously they have your contact details and aren't in a hurry so why should you be? Again, any shortfall will be a non-priority debt so you should only pay what you can.

 

Once you find out what the shortfall figure is you'll be able to decide which are your best options as to payments, of which there are several, but it really depends on what they are claiming.

[keldavmet]

Hi Penmarine, if there is anything you wish to ask me, then fire away. It was my thread regarding BMW finance that you read. Good luck with everything.

[sillygirl1]

The UK pulled out of cross-border debt collecting, on the basis that our laws are more stringent than cross-border ones and that we have more time to chase debt - ie six years rather than three years before it becamse statute barred.

 

I would ignore the debt collectors, if they try for a CCJ here you do not own any property and can prove you do not live here so they are stuck at the first hurdle.

[dfb6]

The UK pulled out of cross-border debt collecting, on the basis that our laws are more stringent than cross-border ones and that we have more time to chase debt - ie six years rather than three years before it becamse statute barred.

 

I would ignore the debt collectors, if they try for a CCJ here you do not own any property and can prove you do not live here so they are stuck at the first hurdle.

 

Does this apply to all eu debt including a mortgage short fall in france

[sillygirl1]

Not sure, it isn't my area of expertise. I would think though that all mortgage shortfalls have an element of 'self enrichment' in the total and as the mortgage has gone (the deed) then the mortgage shortfall could be deemed to come under the 6 year rule rather than the 12 year rule.

 

Are you now living in France and being chased for a UK mortgage shortfall, if so my understanding is that unless you have a UK address you actually live at the company (or its puppets) can't bring a CCJ against you, especially if the mortgage shortfall came from a repossession which had a court order to start with.

[penmarine]

Hi Sillygirl, thanks for the reply, you've confused me a bit which isn't hard at all and I'm sat down. I was under the impression for a German company to get a CCJ against me I'd have to be living in Germany, which isn't the case anymore, as you have to be a German resident etc. So I cannot see how they could get a UK CCJ for a german debt. PM

[cerberusalert]

They could try to obtain a CCJ in the UK but you could challenge the jurisdiction.

[sillygirl1]

You've confused me too... I only know a tiny bit about UK law, nothing about the German law. I would assume a German company would have to have a UK registered office to bring claims in a UK court.... maybe somebody with more knowledge could help here?

[cerberusalert]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32784&d=1326825947

[dfb6]

Sorry I think it's me that's confused you all I've jumped on your entry. My situation is relevant to a mortgage shortfall in France. I would be interested in sillygirls view on my post from earlier today re French mortgage shortfall. Thanks in anticipation.

[sillygirl1]

I don't know the French law, only a bit of the UK law.... should have kept my mouth shut on this one!

[dfb6]

No worries Sillygirl ... was just curious. Thanks

[penmarine]

Hi Caggers

 

 

Posting on behalf of a friend as they've asked me to see if I can help them in any way. My friends owned a house in Germany and they left knowing that there was still money going to be outstanding on the mortgage after their house was sold. They informed the bank prior to leaving whereabouts they would be living whilst back in the UK that was back in 2011. They haven't heard anything since moving to the UK until yesterday. My friends wife received an email from the legal department of the bank with a breakdown of what was outstanding and an agreement needed to be reached. I came on here to do a bit of research but its sketchy what I found, and the European Commission website doesn't have most of the pages working that I wanted to read. I did read on another Germany related thread that the Statue of Limitation in Germany is 3 years from the last payment year which in my friends case was 2011. They have had told me that they have not heard anything from the bank since their last payment in December 2011, showing that 3 years had past with no further payments or contact from the bank. This bearing in mind that the bank had my friends address etc in the UK. I've had a look at their paperwork, used a bit of google translate and it seems they own 34K on the mortgage which looks mostly interest outstanding, then they have a personal loan of 14k outstanding which they said they used for renovation. My question is should I tell them not to worry so much due to 3 years passing or is it worth them replying to the email the wife has had? Or is it a different kettle of fish when a mortgage is involved; they are content to ignore as they cannot afford to pay it back anyway. Thanks PM

[penmarine]

Hi Caggers

 

 

Posting on behalf of a friend as they've asked me to see if I can help them in any way. My friends owned a house in Germany and they left knowing that there was still money going to be outstanding on the mortgage after their house was sold. They informed the bank prior to leaving whereabouts they would be living whilst back in the UK that was back in 2011. They haven't heard anything since moving to the UK until yesterday. My friends wife received an email from the legal department of the bank with a breakdown of what was outstanding and an agreement needed to be reached. I came on here to do a bit of research but its sketchy what I found, and the European Commission website doesn't have most of the pages working that I wanted to read. I did read on another Germany related thread that the Statue of Limitation in Germany is 3 years from the last payment year which in my friends case was 2011. They have had told me that they have not heard anything from the bank since their last payment in December 2011, showing that 3 years had past with no further payments or contact from the bank. This bearing in mind that the bank had my friends address etc in the UK. I've had a look at their paperwork, used a bit of google translate and it seems they own 34K on the mortgage which looks mostly interest outstanding, then they have a personal loan of 14k outstanding which they said they used for renovation. My question is should I tell them not to worry so much due to 3 years passing or is it worth them replying to the email the wife has had? Or is it a different kettle of fish when a mortgage is involved; they are content to ignore as they cannot afford to pay it back anyway. Thanks PM

[unclebulgaria67]

From what I have read it is 3 years from the last day in the year in which the claim arose. The tricky aspect is when does the limitations period start from. When did this debt arise under German law ? This might be from the date that the property was sold and the debt amount was then stated. I would have thought that the German mortgage provider would have sent a statement showing the amount that was due. This would have been issued to the address they had at the time.

 

If they are being chased for this debt, then they need to make a request under German Data Protection law for copies of all the paperwork issued by or on behalf of the German mortgage company.

 

It would be possible for the current owner of the debt to make a claim via a UK court if the debtor is resident here and they would consider whether under German law the debt was still capable of enforcement. This is why the paperwork would be needed to see when the debt arose and to get specific advice about when the limitations period started.