NatWest Advantage Gold Package Account Fees - rejected as SB'd Help please **WON**

[chesterpug]

I lodged a complaint via telephone this morning to say that I downgraded from Advantage Gold at a review meeting in March 09

after I had recently been made redundant with my then relationship manager.

It was established that I had no need for the account.

I was advised that it had been open since 1999 and I thought the charge was in relation to my overdraft.

 

For the duration of when I had the AG account I had a company car and company mobile which were covered by the companies insurance

and would not have agreed to purchasing this product.

 

 

To reinforce the fact I was in financial hardship the relationship manager arranged for a loan I had to be extended therefore reducing monthly payments.

I gave all this information to the complaints team at 8.09am this morning and they came back at 3pm

to say that they were not upholding my account due to the length of time I took to raise the complaint.

 

I informed them that I did not realise at the time I could complain and in fact there should have been some duty of care at the meeting

and advice to do this give my financial situation (hardship).

 

Due to the media it struck a chord and I went through some paperwork to find I had had the AG account and that is why I was complaining.

 

I asked the complaint handler what investigative work they had done to come to the decision but she would only talk about the timescale as the reason for rejection.

 

I am aware that you can complain outside the 6 year timescale and feel that this is unfair as my account number is still the same and active and they have full records of the AG account which I downgraded from.

 

I really believe that no investigation has taken place today and they are trying to fob me off with the timing issue.

Can anyone give me any advice as I feel that I would like to complain about this to the CEO as no mitigating circumstances have been taken into account.

Edited May 21, 2015 by citizenB

[fkofilee]

Present for you;

 

[email protected]

[SabreSheep]

Always put your complaint in writing.

 

I would try again in writing stating that you will take further action if they do nto resolve yoru complaint.

 

Draft a letter here and get feedback. Send recorded delivery to their head office (Or email to the above)

[dx100uk]

Its when you realise not from its last charged date

 

I got back stuff from 1996

 

Dx

[fkofilee]

If you email a letter to the above, it wont go missing

[Baz1994]

Absolute rubbish - they are just fobbing you off.

 

My AG complaint was from 2001 and I sent all in writing headed as a Formal Complaint to the Chatham address. Mine was up-held and paid out within 8 weeks.

 

As SabreSheep says always put in writing and request that all correspondences in writing only - I refused to discuss on the telephone. You can also send a Package Account questionnaire from the FOS website but I just drafted up a letter stating my reasons for mis-sale and enclosed existing RAC membership and other insurance details as proof.

 

And you can always forward details via e-mail or writing to the CEO

[chesterpug]

Hi All - quick update and some further advice required. I escalated my complaint to senior management at NatWest in writing and have just received a letter not upholding my complaint. However I am very confused with their time bar explanation:

 

 

My Email

Dear Mr McEwan

I am aware that you are an extremely busy person and understand that you will not personally deal with this complaint, however I am very upset in the flippant manner I have been treated by your complaints team and would appreciate you asking a senior member of your staff to look into my complaint.

I lodged a packaged accounts complaint via telephone yesterday morning with Lauren Neal in your complaints department and gave her comprehensive information around the complaint which I have outlined below:

Summary of Complaint and Action

I attended a personal review meeting in March 09 after I had been made redundant with my new Relationship Manager, Sarah Millen who is now at Drummonds. During this meeting it was established that I had an Advantage Gold account and had no need for this account and had never used any of it’s benefits so this account was unsuitable for me. I was advised that it had been open since 1999 and I thought the charge was in relation to my overdraft and had no idea of what the benefits were. For the duration of when I had the Advantage Gold account I had a company car and company mobile which were covered by the companies insurance and therefore would not have agreed to purchasing this product as it would not have been of any use. Sarah downgraded my account from Advantage Gold to save the on the monthly cost. To reinforce the fact I was in financial hardship Sarah arranged for a loan I had at the time to be extended and restructured, thereby reducing my monthly payment. At no time was I advised that I could make a claim regarding the Advantage Gold account to try and obtain a refund.

I gave all this information to the complaints team (Lauren Neal and her colleague, Kevin) at 8.09am and again at 10.40am to Kevin as I got him to read back to me what Lauren had logged and she had not logged the full information. Kevin then emailed her to add this information to her notes as they would be part of the decision making process. Lauren came back at 3pm to say that they were not upholding my complaint due to the length of time I took to raise the complaint.

I informed them that I did not realise at the time I could complain and in fact there should have been some duty of care at the review meeting in 2009 and advice to do this given my financial situation (hardship) at the time. To be completely frank, I was very depressed at this time as I was the major breadwinner and was fighting a case for unpaid notice of 3 months salary (£15,000 net) with my previous employer, as they went into liquidation and created a phoenix company.

Due to seeing recent media coverage around packaged accounts, it struck a chord, so I went through some old paperwork to find I had had the Advantage Gold account and that is why I was complaining now.

I asked the complaint handler what investigative work she had done to come to the decision not to uphold my complaint, but she would only talk about the timescale as the reason for rejection. It became apparent that no other work had been done on the investigation, nor had any of the details I had given her had been taken into account. I did request a call back yesterday from her manager, Nicola Allen, to escalate my complaint, but as yet, have not heard from her.

I am aware that you can complain outside the 6 year timescale and feel that this decision is unfair as I have banked with you for 30 years in July, my account number is still the same and active, and the bank has full records of the Advantage Gold account which I downgraded from.

I really believe that no investigation took place yesterday and that I was “fobbed” off with the timing issue.

I would appreciate you looking at my complaint again and hopefully reverse the “decision” that was made yesterday.

Their response letter with this paragraph

 

The reason for time bar from the advisor is correct as it is the customer's responsibility to raise a complaint within a reasonable period of time. Unfortunately as you did make a complaint within 3 years of downgrading your account we will not consider your complaint???

To clarify I held an AG account from 13/01/1999 to 10/03/2009 when it was downgraded at a review meeting. I recently made a complaint about this in May, however they are saying that I made a complaint previously (within 3 years of downgrading the account) which I have no recollection of and certainly never had any response.

 

 

Thank you all for your advice so far, I think my issue here is that the complaint was made verbally and they are now playing on my words and trying to twist to suit their position.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Andyorch

[KSmith82]

They can quite rightly reject a complaint without considering the merits if it's more than six years after the event complained of OR (if later) more than three years from the date on which the complainant became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that he had cause for complaint.

 

You complained about your Advantage Gold account in May 2015 and stopped having this type of account in March 2009 - which is more than 6 years ago. Although your complaint is actually about the sale of your account which seems to be back in January 1999.

 

At your meeting in March 2009 you should have reasonably been aware that you potentially had cause for complaint. Any assertion that you didn't realise you could complain at this time is an extremely weak point (in fact I consider it to be ridiculous).

 

And to address your other concern: Any verbal complaint is still a complaint. As long as they issued you a final response (the fact that you don't recall this or didn't retain any paperwork is irrelevant) then they wouldn't have to consider your complaint again.

[dx100uk]

sorry no. that's no fair and reasonable

 

my co-op account number goes back to 1982

it changed thru various names and types but the number always remained the same

so is still 'running' and 'active'

 

three of those types were with 'a free overdraft'

and the charges were for the extras. i'e a 'packaged account' fee.

 

in 2012 I complained about these fees

I got the lot back. and one of the fees was right back to 1992

 

I did not 'become aware' of the reclaiming of these fees till then.

 

and it mattered not that the charged fees were outside of 6yrs either.

 

dx

[Baz1994]

Agree with dx

 

See my post #6

 

Mine was from 2001 and I did not complain until this year.

 

Was that their final response ?

[chesterpug]

Thx to Baz1994 and dx

 

Yes, they said their letter represents their final response.

 

I have just emailed them back and copied in the CEO this email:

 

Again, I am disappointed at your outcome and more importantly, annoyed at the inaccuracy in the response.

To clarify and cover any ambiguity,

I feel it necessary to reiterate the series of events as it appears that you have not viewed this complaint correctly.

 

When the account was downgraded to a free account, at no time was I aware that there was cause for complaint,

this was done as a money saving exercise and it was evident that I was not using any of the products,

it was not apparent at that time that I had cause to complain.

 

 

It was only recently, due to media coverage and research of the issue around these accounts that I realised that this had been a clear case of mis-selling,

that is why the complaint was raised in May.

 

 

If I had been aware of this I would have made the complaint earlier,

and feel strongly that this could have been explained at the time of downgrading,

especially as I was in a situation of financial hardship.

 

I explained this at the time of my complaint in May.

 

My account number has never changed and is still active.

 

I would like to draw your attention to paragraph 5 of your letter which reads:

 

This leads me to Lauren Neale’s investigation and I realise that you are unhappy that your claim was rejected because it was time – barred.

While I can empathise with your position, Lauren was correct to say that our regulator’s dispute resolution process

place the responsibility on the customer to raise a complaint in a reasonable period of time.

 

Unfortunately, as you did make a complaint within three years of downgrading the account we will not consider your complaint.

 

This statement is completely incorrect, inaccurate and untrue and I am amazed that you are stating such an inaccuracy.

This leads me to believe that this whole complaint has been peppered with inconsistency and misinterpretations

and has caused me an undue and unnecessary amount of stress.

 

 

You mention that you will be sending me a “gift” as a gesture of goodwill,

which I am sure will not come anywhere close to compensating me for losing in excess of £1,000 plus interest

due to the clear mis-selling of the Advantage Gold product.

 

As previously mentioned I have banked with you for 30 years in July, and the treatment I have received as a loyal customer is highly unsatisfactory.

With this in mind I feel very strongly about this whole situation and shall have no alternative but to contact the Financial Ombudsman

(which you mention in your letter you hope won’t be necessary) if we cannot come to a mutual resolution and closure of this issue.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

[Baz1994]

Did you ever submit a Subject Access Request ?

 

Have you any proof of company insurances or breakdown coverage ?

 

What evidence have the bank provided apart from their usual spiel ?

[chesterpug]

Thx for your response Baz.

I didn't do a SAR but have some old statements from 2009 which shows that it was an AG account and only states £12.95 as a charge.

 

 

Unfortunately I do not have anything from my employer at that time re company car and telephone insurance as that was held at head office.

they can clearly see that I didn't use any products.

 

They have given me no evidence against my complaint, only that they are time - barring it.

My account is still the same number, they agreed that they could see it had been downgraded.

They seem to have twisted words to suit them.

 

Their response letter is incorrect as I have never complained before.

[Baz1994]

OK and no worries. It usually helps to do an SAR before a complaint as I have found out in the past.

 

Well like you said you didn't use any products on offer or not needed and therefore a worthless package.

 

It maybe an idea to respond in writing highlighting their points raised with your honest response and include appropriate conditions from the FSA handbook. Some experts on here maybe able to quote the applicable ones for your complaint.

 

Don't give up as I encountered exactly the same and in the end after a couple of rejections, they eventually up-held my complaint. I responded to their reasons individually quoting certain conditions and requesting for their actual evidence rather than assumptions etc.

 

Mind you it did help that I had already obtained an SAR and completely exhausted requesting further details in which they could not provide.

[chesterpug]

Thank you for your advice Baz, it is much appreciated. will update you on their response.

[Baz1994]

Thank you for your advice Baz, it is much appreciated. will update you on their response.

 

Please do but ensure you look at the FCA handbook and seek the appropriate conditions that apply to your complaint.

 

ATB

[dx100uk]

the fact that you 'didn't' have any alternate insurance or whatever inplace

has no bearing whatsoever on the claim.

 

 

dx

[KSmith82]

sorry no. that's no fair and reasonable

 

my co-op account number goes back to 1982

it changed thru various names and types but the number always remained the same

so is still 'running' and 'active'

 

three of those types were with 'a free overdraft'

and the charges were for the extras. i'e a 'packaged account' fee.

 

in 2012 I complained about these fees

I got the lot back. and one of the fees was right back to 1992

 

I did not 'become aware' of the reclaiming of these fees till then.

 

and it mattered not that the charged fees were outside of 6yrs either.

 

dx

 

 

Agree with dx

 

See my post #6

 

Mine was from 2001 and I did not complain until this year.

 

Was that their final response ?

 

Fair and reasonable or not, those are the FCA DISP rules regarding the time-barring of complaints.

 

The fact that both your (dx100uk & Baz1994) complaints were upheld even though they relate to events way back in the past is irrelevant. Your complaints may well have been time-barred too, in which case the banks wouldn't have been obliged to consider them but they could do if they wanted too.

 

Natwest are simply within there rights and are not obliged to consider chesterpug's complaint.

[dx100uk]

if this were the case then 99% of PPI complaints would be thus rejected

and they are not.

 

 

sorry you are not correct.

 

 

there are no references anywhere on any site be that here martin lewis

or any of the well known fee paying CMC sites

that say packaged account fees can be time barred.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547073/Backlash-rip-fee-paying-bank-accounts-Thousands-customers-complain-claims-widely-mis-sold.html

 

 

dx

[KSmith82]

if this were the case then 99% of PPI complaints would be thus rejected

and they are not.

 

If those complaints were made more than three years from the date on which the complainant became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that he had cause for complaint then those complaints would not have likely been considered.

 

However, most people would not realise their account was mis-sold and then wait more than 3 years before making a complaint.

 

Unfortunately, chesterpug realised the account was unsuitable but didn't make a complaint until now which is MORE than 3 years later. Therefore, chesterpug is out of time and Natwest don't have to consider the complaint.

 

sorry you are not correct.

 

 

there are no references anywhere on any site be that here martin lewis

or any of the well known fee paying CMC sites

that say packaged account fees can be time barred.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547073/Backlash-rip-fee-paying-bank-accounts-Thousands-customers-complain-claims-widely-mis-sold.html

 

 

dx

 

Amazing.

 

I am using my knowledge of the FCA DISP rules. You are using information on the website of claims management companies (who take a no-win-no-fee-solicitor type approach of taking on any case in the hope of a result) and the Daily Mail. It speaks volumes.

[dx100uk]

the 3yrs only applies to if a CCL letter was sent

and to the right address [ as many creditors purposefully send them to the wrong address]

 

 

you are wrong.

 

 

this has already been debated here to death here

prob by one of your previous clones

 

 

lets go snooping and see

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

" You must complain to the Ombudsman within six years of the event complained about, or three years after you first became aware that you may have grounds for complaint, whichever is longest. For example, if you were sold PPI in 2005, you may still be able to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service if you only became aware of the possible mis-selling last year."

[KSmith82]

" You must complain to the Ombudsman within six years of the event complained about, or three years after you first became aware that you may have grounds for complaint, whichever is longest. For example, if you were sold PPI in 2005, you may still be able to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service if you only became aware of the possible mis-selling last year."

 

I get the feeling you are not reading or understanding my posts properly. THIS INFO IS WHAT I HAVE ALREADY SAID. I can't see why you are copying and pasting this information again?

 

Anyway. So in chesterpug's case, Natwest are saying that he realised he was mis-sold in March 2009 but didn't make a complaint until May 2015 which is more than 3 years after the event. Therefore, they don't have to consider the complaint.

 

the 3yrs only applies to if a CCL letter was sent

and to the right address [ as many creditors purposefully send them to the wrong address]

 

 

you are wrong.

 

 

this has already been debated here to death here

prob by one of your previous clones

 

 

lets go snooping and see

 

 

dx

 

This makes no sense and doesn't seem to have any relation to what we are talking about.

 

What is a CCL letter anyway?

[dx100uk]

whichever is the longest.....so 3yrs is longer than 6yrs....:frusty:

[KSmith82]

whichever is the longest.....so 3yrs is longer than 6yrs....:frusty:

 

It isn't clear what you mean by this comment.

 

If the original mis-selling event is January 1999.

Then 6 years after is January 2005.

If you realised you were mis-sold in March 2009, then 3 years after this would be March 2012. (So that's 13 years and 2 months. And quite obviously 13 years 2 months is MORE than 6 years)

 

So a complaint in May 2015 is well out of time.