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    • Thanks,   I’ve been arguing on Twitter with idiots who say the lockdown shouldn’t happen because most hospitals are empty right now . I guess scientific facts like exponential growth are too boring for them.    
    • This is the letter before claim I sent  Mrs Ellen Malpass pdf.pdf
    • This is the defence statement. washing machine 1.pdf
    • OK.  I am trying to work out what the relationship is with Safestyle.  I am sure that it is pretty cosy. I'm away at the moment and may not be able to deal with this closely until Tuesday.   I'm still trying to figure out the story    I expect that it was missold - presumably you didn't obtain any quotes from anyone else and you weren't given the choice of installer.   Have you got a copy of the release agreement that you signed?   Is the work now satisfactorily completed?   I would suggest that you start doing some detailed research to see what you can turn up about any relationship between H2B and SS.  Maybe it is just a close working relationship - but it could be more than that.   Look around the internet and see if H2B always use SS.
    • No the Help to Buy company was only called Help to Buy. I have kept the email thread from them indicating that they would be sending a representative to measure up and give quote. It was the Help to Buy company that sent Safestyle. Hitachi finance was just the finance company and they have done all they can with regard to my complaint.   Thanks
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Six Years Ago - Events of Nine Years Ago.


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In July 2009 I was interviewed under caution for benefit fraud 2006-2008.

I was divorced finally in July 2006.

September 2009, the local Magistrate pinged the case to the regional magistrate.

October 2009, the regional magistrate dismissed the case.

April 2010, the County Court Judge said: "Not Guilty of any benefit fraud"

November 2011, the DWP Debt Collection wrote to me to claim the amount of the benefit fraud.

November 2011, my solicitor wrote to the DWP, you have waited nineteen months before raising the matter again and the fraims guidelines are for eighteen months.

The reply then was, civil and criminal are different.

 

I am now waiting May 2015, for my Tier 2 letter stating "Final Written Response" having gone through Tier 1 in the last couple of months as according to the DWP no complaint had ever been lodged.

( I think my solicitor's letter in 2011 rather implies otherwise )

The Independent Case Examiner wants this DWP letter as well.

 

As I understand it the DWP are arguing a "Not Guilty" at a Criminal Hearing does not also cover the civil side of things.

Well maybe, and hence my post, but the thing is, according to my bank statements Jan 2006 to April 2006 there are no payments of Income Support as alleged.

 

The assertion from the DWP is I had over £16,000 in savings and not entitled to any benefits.

The money in the account was put there by my now late uncle and my now late father for the purposes of a property conversion by them to provide a bedroom for my wheel chair bound father.

So yes the bank account in my name for a few months had a lot of money in it before paying the builder but not once the money had been paid out.

The DWP have seen the conversion from outside of the property (2009).

 

I have no problem defending the matter in a civil court ( not that the DWP have suggested that ), they have to date kept asking for the amount of their criminal case with no regard to the fact that they did not pay all they have asserted. I could tell back in 2010 the County Court Judge was far from impressed especially since he could not find all the alleged payments on my bank statements.

 

 

So here is my question: Can a *Criminal* *County Court* Judge say "Not Guilty of *any* benefit fraud" and that is the decision or are the choice of his words misleading.

A more advanced question is what if any evidence can the DWP bring back from a failed criminal case where all benefit payments ceased over seven years ago.

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In July 2009 I was interviewed under caution for benefit fraud 2006-2008.

I was divorced finally in July 2006.

September 2009, the local Magistrate pinged the case to the regional magistrate.

October 2009, the regional magistrate dismissed the case.

April 2010, the County Court Judge said: "Not Guilty of any benefit fraud"

November 2011, the DWP Debt Collection wrote to me to claim the amount of the benefit fraud.

November 2011, my solicitor wrote to the DWP, you have waited nineteen months before raising the matter again and the fraims guidelines are for eighteen months.

The reply then was, civil and criminal are different.

 

I am now waiting May 2015, for my Tier 2 letter stating "Final Written Response" having gone through Tier 1 in the last couple of months as according to the DWP no complaint had ever been lodged.

( I think my solicitor's letter in 2011 rather implies otherwise )

The Independent Case Examiner wants this DWP letter as well.

 

As I understand it the DWP are arguing a "Not Guilty" at a Criminal Hearing does not also cover the civil side of things.

Well maybe, and hence my post, but the thing is, according to my bank statements Jan 2006 to April 2006 there are no payments of Income Support as alleged.

 

The assertion from the DWP is I had over £16,000 in savings and not entitled to any benefits.

The money in the account was put there by my now late uncle and my now late father for the purposes of a property conversion by them to provide a bedroom for my wheel chair bound father.

So yes the bank account in my name for a few months had a lot of money in it before paying the builder but not once the money had been paid out.

The DWP have seen the conversion from outside of the property (2009).

 

I have no problem defending the matter in a civil court ( not that the DWP have suggested that ), they have to date kept asking for the amount of their criminal case with no regard to the fact that they did not pay all they have asserted. I could tell back in 2010 the County Court Judge was far from impressed especially since he could not find all the alleged payments on my bank statements.

 

 

So here is my question: Can a *Criminal* *County Court* Judge say "Not Guilty of *any* benefit fraud" and that is the decision or are the choice of his words misleading.

A more advanced question is what if any evidence can the DWP bring back from a failed criminal case where all benefit payments ceased over seven years ago.

 

 

I don't know what standard of proof the DWP have to meet in terms of clawing back money.

 

"Not Guilty" is just that - they standard of "guilty, beyond all reasonable doubt" hasn't been met. No criminal conviction is possible, you can't loose your liberty.

A finding of "not guilty" is not the same as "being found innocent" - in terms of a civil case the standard of proof is "on balance of probabilities" rather than "beyond all reasonable doubt"

 

As a somewhat notorious example, OJ Simpson was found not guilty of the murder of his wife (in a criminal prosecution), so he wasn't going to go to prison. A civil case by his wife's family still found him liable for damages in relation to her death. Different standards of proof.

 

With the higher standard in the criminal courts, a finding of guilt can then be relied on in a civil case (and the Civil Evidence Act specifically allows for this).

I don't believe a "not guilty" is similarly binding.

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So here is my question: Can a *Criminal* *County Court* Judge say "Not Guilty of *any* benefit fraud" and that is the decision or are the choice of his words misleading.

A more advanced question is what if any evidence can the DWP bring back from a failed criminal case where all benefit payments ceased over seven years ago.

 

The criminal court can find you not guilty of fraud. This does not, in itself, mean you have not been overpaid benefit - it simply means that a court has found that you did not commit any crime. Most benefit overpayments do not involve any fraud or crime, but many are nonetheless recoverable. Basically, a "not guilty" verdict in a criminal court ends the criminal case, but does not necessarily erase any liability to repay overpaid benefits. So it's not that the judge's words are "misleading", at least, not intentionally so. They refer to one matter, while civil recovery of an overpayment is another matter.

 

Your post seems to suggest that you are also in the process of appealing the overpayment decision at a civil tribunal. Is that the case? And if the DWP cannot actually demonstrate that you received any benefits during the period in question, I'd say that their case at a tribunal would appear, on the face of it, to be rather weak. Why do they think you were in receipt of benefits?

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i think it would be difficult to get to a tribunal - as years out of time for a MR

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i think it would be difficult to get to a tribunal - as years out of time for a MR

 

Yes - I misread references to "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" as being about a Tribunal hearing, but on re-reading I think OP might be talking about the DWP's internal complaints procedure or perhaps the ICE.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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The "appeal" sometime near the end of August 2009 prior to the court cases ( Sep, Oct, Apr ) and was a farce.

Generic chat about large amounts of benefits owed over a long time.

Nothing specific like amounts or dates.

It had the feel of an evidence fishing exercise by the DWP.

I attended that "appeal" with a Court Summons in my hand for ten days later.

 

The part I did not mention is that they paid Income Support while I was a full time carer for my father in my own home.

So another issue is I should have received say £40 from *Carer's Allowance*.

You see if the DWP is right they should have to at least offset the £80 Income Support Payments with £40 Carer's Allowance (not means tested).

 

They realised this at some point in 2007 and paid out as £40 Carers Allowance and £40 Income Support.

I assumed it was like that to get the same amount as the statutory minimum support as by then my capital was now below £16,000.

They argue, sorry about our mistake (£40 pw IS ) but we still want our mistake repaid.

 

The amount in question is about £5,000 (total three years, without CA offset or IS should be paid because capital is *now* below £16000)

but nothing will convince me that "right" would have been £40 Carers Allowance a week only.

( what am I a care home on the cheap then? )

when Income Support for a single person was twice that at the time and such people also do not pay Council Tax

where as I was billed the full amount on my property ( 25% off for a paraplegic in your converted home ?? Carer's Assessment ?? ).

 

If the DWP expected me to pay the builder in full before he started (so that I could cleanly claim means tested)

rather than in stages then they are idiots.

 

+++++

antone, yeah maybe hence the question but I think he meant EXACTLY what he said.

Nobody (DWP or here) seems to know if a Criminal County Court Judge can also reach a Civil Decision at the same time.

 

id6052, I do not need the Tribunal to be re-run that is in effect what the Independent Case Examiner is offering.

Edited by Kouros
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