Am I being told the truth?

[jimbojames]

Hi Everyone

 

This is my first post and hopefully it is not a stupid question. It involves the often asked question about double yellow lines without a T-bar at the end.

 

I am currently appealing a ticket given to me when parked outside my driveway where there are double yellow lines on the road. My appeal is based on mitigating circumstances/Health reasons why I was unable to have my blue badge on view and has noting to do with missing T-bars. However i have noticed that the double yellow lines end outside my neighbours house(with no T-bar) and change to a single white line for two houses before changing back to double yellow lines(again no T-bar) for the rest of the road.

 

I asked the council (by Phone) if the lines are enforceable without the missing T-bar and was told that this excuse has not been allowed for over 8 years. The new law is that the yellow lines actually continue underneath the single white line so a T-bar is not needed because there is no break in the lines. He also told me if I had used that as an appeal it would be an automatic fail if he was given the case to look at.

 

I was not convinced so I emailed the same question and quoted what i was told earlier. The reply said "As advised during your telephone conversation with this office today, a T-bar is not a requirement in terms of making a yellow line enforceable providing the restriction is identifiable to the motorist"

 

I can believe that the T-bar loophole has been closed but I just wondered if it is actually the new law that yellow lines can now run invisibly underneath a single white line. I have not been able to find any mention of this anywhere on the Internet. I have asked them for a link where I can view the new rules but they have not supplied this information.

 

Thanks

[Michael Browne]

There is no ‘new law’ about double yellows but there was a judicial review (the Herron case) which decided that lines were acceptable as long as ‘substantially compliant’. ie even if there are small gaps in the DYL's, or the lines are faded, or have missing t-bars, as long as it is still obvious that there are restrictions, then those restrictions are enforceable.

[jimbojames]

Thanks for the reply Michael. My appeal is not based on missing T-bars as I knew the lines were there and what they mean. I just found it strange that the Council claim it is now a new rule that lines can run invisibly under other lines.

 

I am hoping that I get an understanding Council officer who will take into account my reasons for not showing my Blue Badge. If not I will learn from my mistake and take it on the chin.

 

Thanks again

[Jamberson]

Yellow lines do not run under white lines. If you're on the white line, that's a different restriction, and it would be as well to check the Traffic Order (which stipulates what the restriction should be, legally) to make sure the road markings are correct. However, it is true that a lack of T-bars is not going to win an appeal.

 

Do you need any advice regarding your ongoing appeal, or are you happy just to wait and see? If it is rejected, you don't have to give up at that stage, and posting some info here might lead to a stronger angle for further appeal.

[jimbojames]

Hi Jamberson

 

My appeal has been submitted via email. It is based on the fact that I did not have time to unlock the gates to my driveway and then park off the pavement. I also did not have time to even get my Blue Badge onto the dashboard because I had to get into my house and to the toilet quickly. My walking is also very bad and takes me much longer than a normal person. The ticket was put on just before I was able to get back to the car. The lady was still taking pictures and despite showing her the Blue Badge she said nothing. I have mentioned in my appeal that all of this is available on my CCTV camera so I can prove that the blue badge was in the car and not being used by anyone else at the same time and I have also asked if the lady made any notes about being shown the blue badge after the ticket was issued. The CCTV also shows clearly myself making my way from the car to the front door in some distress. Had I been guilty of this many times before I would just accept the penalty but as it is the first time ever I have been unable to have my blue badge on the dashboard I hope they will class this as mitigating circumstances/Health reasons and show some common sense and cancel the ticket.

 

Thanks

[Jamberson]

Did you send them footage from the CCTV? Also they will need a photocopy of both sides of your blue badge, to prove it is valid and belongs to you. If you haven't sent that, I'd advise that you do so ASAP and mark it "additional evidence for appeal on PCN number xxxxxx".

[jimbojames]

I have not sent the CCTV footage but I have told them that I have it available.

 

I did send a copy of both sides of my Blue Badge with my appeal.

 

It is Rochdale Council and i got an automated reply saying the have received my email. I have checked with them and have been told it may take a while to get a reply as they have a huge backlog of appeals but as long as I have that email from them the ticket will have been placed on hold until I have an answer on my appeal.

 

Thanks

[Jamberson]

Fair enough. They are pretty unlikely to write back and ask if you will send the footage so they can make a decision. If you think it will help your appeal, give it to them now. You still stand a fair chance without the footage, but there's no point in withholding it.

[jimbojames]

Just a quick update... As i have never had a ticket before and because it has been 3 weeks since i sent in my appeal I have asked how long they think it will take. At the moment they have so many appeals to look at that they think it will take 14 weeks from the day the appeal was sent in. So it will be a while before I hear from them

[jimbojames]

Hi Everyone

 

I have finally had my reply...

 

I have received your recent Challenge to the above Penalty Charge Notice and after careful consideration of the circumstances have found no grounds for the cancellation of the charge.

 

The Penalty Charge Notice was issued correctly. The vehicle was parked on the footpath behind a double yellow line restriction. This means that the road is subject to parking/waiting restrictions which are enforceable 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. A yellow line restriction is enforceable from the centre of the road to the highway boundary or property line and therefore incorporates the area where the vehicle was parked in this instance.

 

Each challenge is considered on an individual basis and I have noted the copy of a Disabled Blue Badge supplied with your challenge which you state you neglected to display in the vehicle at the time of the contravention as a result of an urgent need to use the lavatory, an effect of medication you were taking at that time. However, this does not provide exemption from this parking restriction or grounds on which to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice. When a Badge is not clearly displayed for inspection in a vehicle and only submitted for consideration retrospective to a Notice being issued, it can not be verified that the Badge was in the vehicle at the time of the contravention and there is therefore no authorisation to use the concessions offered by the Disabled parking scheme.

 

I have also noted your comments that you held dialogue with the issuing Civil Enforcement Officer upon your return to the vehicle subsequent to the Penalty Charge Notice having been served. However, whilst there is no record of the driver of the vehicle having been seen, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that a valid Disabled Blue Badge is clearly displayed for inspection in the vehicle immediately upon parking when using the concessions offered by the Disabled parking scheme. Please refer to The Blue Badge Scheme booklet which explains the duties of the Badge holder and also how to use the Badge.

 

Any CCTV covering the vicinity of the contravention is in place to assist in the prevention and investigation of crime and is therefore not used by the Council in the undertaking of Civil Parking Enforcement or to support Penalty Charge Notice appeals. It remains the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that they park their vehicle in compliance with any parking restrictions or conditions in operation.

 

For your future reference, please note that a footpath is in place for the use of pedestrians as opposed to a parking facility for vehicles and parking a vehicle in obstruction of a footpath is a matter upon which the Police may take action.

 

Shall i just accept this and pay or is this a standard reply that is sent to everyone in which case i will think about going to the next stage

 

Thanks

[Jamberson]

 

Each challenge is considered on an individual basis and I have noted the copy of a Disabled Blue Badge supplied with your challenge which you state you neglected to display in the vehicle at the time of the contravention as a result of an urgent need to use the lavatory, an effect of medication you were taking at that time. However, this does not provide exemption from this parking restriction or grounds on which to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice. When a Badge is not clearly displayed for inspection in a vehicle and only submitted for consideration retrospective to a Notice being issued, it can not be verified that the Badge was in the vehicle at the time of the contravention and there is therefore no authorisation to use the concessions offered by the Disabled parking scheme.

 

This is not correct. It's true that it doesn't provide exemption from the restriction, but it's not true that it isn't grounds to cancel. The council has total discretion, and it may well provide grounds - it's up to them. They are also bound by equalities legislation, and ought to consider mitigating circumstances when assessing PCNs issued to Blue Badge holders. In short, they are being intransigent. Same goes for the video footage - they can view it and take it into account if they want to - they just appear unwilling.

 

Whether to take it further is your shout. I think you stand a chance, but there's no certainty on the outcome, and you would be dealing with a higher charge at the end of the day. Maybe complain to your local councilor or MP, as there is a discrimination angle on this, but also weigh up whether you want to fight on.

[jimbojames]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I was thinking about paying and moving on. But I like the idea of complaining to my local councilor about this. She has been to my house a couple of times in the last 8 months because of the by-election and then the general election and she seemed eager to help with any issues i had. So I may still pay but bring to her attention the problem and ask her to look into this because I agree that there is a discrimination angle on this.