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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-people-voted-for-policies-the-green-party-would-win-the-next-election-9887199.html

 

 

I didn't want to talk politics before the election...

 

 

But today I have been wondering why more people (even most people) didn't vote for the green party?

 

 

This article in The Independent states a survey of half a million people was taken and if people were voting on policies, then the green party comes first instead of fifth!

 

 

I think scrapping all benefits and replacing it with Universal Automatic Citizens Income is nothing short of genius. I was dreaming of a world like this and it was good ha ha.

 

 

Scrapping tuition fees, free pensions for all at current levels or better, free public transport, safe cycle lanes, policies on having clean, healthy air to breathe etc. etc. just seem practical and responsible to me?

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I'll ask you the same thing people kept asking Nicola Bennett.

 

How in the world do you expect all of this to be paid for?

 

I think it is the same question that others had hoped to be answered and probably why the Greens only ended up with one seat !

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It could be paid for quite easily. First off, abolish the tax-free personal allowance on income. We also have to note that it would replace a wide range of benefits including JSA, ESA, IS and so on. It's redistributive, certainly, but the idea that we couldn't possibly afford it is absurd.

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The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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Indeed, how many billions are spent on those benefits. Add in how much more is actually spent administrating a complex system of benefits, half the cost is already paid off. Throw in the fact a whole range of benefit fraud would disappear overnight as well.

 

Add in that this money will find itself back into the economy thus increasing a demand driven increase in employment. win win.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/joseph-finlay/green-party-citizens-income_b_6577904.html

 

 

I don't think any party really explained how their policies would be paid for? Certainly not in great detail. Just saying we will cut welfare by 12 billion for example as I believe the tories will be doing... still doesn't explain any real financial detail. Maybe people just like the sound of that. Maybe its early conditioning.

 

 

There are some interesting ideas in this article about how the greens could pay for their policies and includes a £10 per hour minimum wage but I think the green policies go deeper than that and offers a much needed, imo, paradigm shift.

 

 

I was thinking about Atos alone, imagine they were scrapped as they would no longer be required under the Automatic Universal Citizens Income scheme and since they are making a net loss - how much money would that save? I don't know because no government study has been commissioned as to the financial cost of Atos to the tax payer.

 

 

I have read that a couple of billion pounds is wasted per year on admin errors, just to put figures into perspective.

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Cross posted with you Sabresheep. Yes the complex admin benefits systems is no doubt a cause of the 2 billion admin error waste each year - that would automatically be saved.

 

 

 

 

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/we-stand-for/2015-manifesto.html

 

 

just been looking at the full manifesto. From p79 is a financial outline. Scrapping trident was another method - saving a hundred billion-ish

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/sep/18/trident-replacement-hidden-cost-revealed

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To agree with Sabresheep and Clear33, it's not just the money lost to error that's worth considering. Even when the benefits system is administered correctly, determining who is or is not entitled costs a lot of money. That's something that Clear33 alludes to when he or she mentions the matter of Atos. We don't, I think, actually know how much they are (or were) paid to process ESA assessments, but I bet it's not a trivial sum.

 

It's really just a matter of priorities. We are one of the richest nations in the world and we can, via the ballot box, choose what we do with our wealth. To say that I'm disappointed in the decision we made as a nation is, well, an understatement.

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of course it can be paid for, why don't these same people ask how are tax cuts are paid for?

 

They don't because they don't like the greens idea so challenge it.

 

Anyway a big reason why the greens only got one seat (and also why the UKIP only got one seat) is due to the voting system. The greens did manage to get over a million votes.

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To agree with Sabresheep and Clear33, it's not just the money lost to error that's worth considering. Even when the benefits system is administered correctly, determining who is or is not entitled costs a lot of money. That's something that Clear33 alludes to when he or she mentions the matter of Atos. We don't, I think, actually know how much they are (or were) paid to process ESA assessments, but I bet it's not a trivial sum.

 

 

Well going by this article in 2012 they held a contact worth 3 billion. Also each health 'professional' was paid £100 for each claimant they see at their WCA.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/aug/28/atos-3bn-government-contracts-paralympics

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I think the issue with the green party is that they have not yet convinced enough people that they have matured enough from being a pressure group to becoming a credible party of government. You mention green party, most people automatically think GreenPeace even though they are not related.

 

They need a stronger leader. Natalie is ok, but inexperience showed in the campaign. She should be congratulated for the increase in vote share though!

 

The Green party has a lot of work to do. They are advocating a change in culture. That is an argument they have to win against a society that has adopted the "Maggy Mantra" of "Greed is Good" which ultimatly has made this country extremely short sighted.

 

They are also the only party that moves away form the current economic model that the other support which is unsustainable long term and will eventually lead to the collapse of society.

 

Their out of the box thinking is what gained them my vote.

 

Am I disappointed they did not win? NOPE. In my eyes their objectives were not to "win" but to increase their credibility and that is shown by increased vote share.

 

As for some of their extreme ideas, we have seen their membership soar. NOW it is upto the new membership to moderate the party, which should further increase their credibility in the long run.

 

On another note, sorry to see Millibean gone. I generally believe that he has the right beliefs at heart. He lost out to the British Way of thinking that a PM cannot be "Nice" I think a Female Party Leader would be a goo dmove for Labour at this point.

 

I feel if they had spent more time demolishing the TORY claims of being successful, and also opposed Austerity, they may have achieved something.

 

As for the Torys, well plaid, split your membership between TORY and UKIP knowing full well Some will return to Tory and also you were going to pick up the right wing LibDem voters.

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Now if the Green's really want to become a force to listen to and get voted for they need a leader with the passion, fire, drive that

is currently in charge of the SNP. It's that sort of person we need in the PM's place in this country, one who is really for the people and

one that cares about the country. I might be in the UK but if Sturgeon's name had been on my polling papers I would have voted for her.

 

UkIP may have poled around 4mil votes but the leader was a joke and quite frankly any vote they got helped the Tories more than Labour.

 

The SNP wiped out Labour because of the poor leader and very lack lustre policies and David Cameron was praying for this to happen.

The final result may have been much closer than it was if it were not for the SNP killing labour in Scotland and the UKIP vote driving the

labour vote down.

 

The problem now is that we have to live with this situation and make the most of it.

 

So I expect that these forums may become somewhat busier over the next few years.

 

There are to many nandy pandy politicians in this country who are only there to feather theirs (and friends) nests. Most have about as much

use as a 1 bristle loo brush (and I think I being kind to them at that).

 

If Cameron gets his way and changes the boundaries in this country to shed 50-60 MPs and if the SNP keep hold of Scotland it's going

to take something really significant before the Tories would ever lose power again. I would not be surprised if Scotland did get independence

as that would effectively keep an additional 60mp's out of Westminster.

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I think it is the same question that others had hoped to be answered and probably why the Greens only ended up with one seat !

 

 

 

 

 

I have been wondering about 'the greens only ended up with one seat', citizenB

 

 

They did win a decent million votes, as worried33 mentioned. If this article is correct, number wise, the SNP won only 400,000 more votes than the Greens and yet they got a staggering 56 seats!!! UKIP got 4,000,000 votes and ended up with one seat.

 

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/how-our-electoral-system-has-5658947

 

 

According to the poll in the article, 90% of people think this unfair and the electoral system is broken. I do not fully understand the seating system yet though.

 

 

The broken electoral system is going to be a hot topic now I think...

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I think the issue with the green party is that they have not yet convinced enough people that they have matured enough from being a pressure group to becoming a credible party of government. You mention green party, most people automatically think GreenPeace even though they are not related.

 

They need a stronger leader. Natalie is ok, but inexperience showed in the campaign. She should be congratulated for the increase in vote share though!

 

The Green party has a lot of work to do. They are advocating a change in culture. That is an argument they have to win against a society that has adopted the "Maggy Mantra" of "Greed is Good" which ultimatly has made this country extremely short sighted.

 

They are also the only party that moves away form the current economic model that the other support which is unsustainable long term and will eventually lead to the collapse of society.

 

Their out of the box thinking is what gained them my vote.

 

Am I disappointed they did not win? NOPE. In my eyes their objectives were not to "win" but to increase their credibility and that is shown by increased vote share.

 

As for some of their extreme ideas, we have seen their membership soar. NOW it is upto the new membership to moderate the party, which should further increase their credibility in the long run.

 

On another note, sorry to see Millibean gone. I generally believe that he has the right beliefs at heart. He lost out to the British Way of thinking that a PM cannot be "Nice" I think a Female Party Leader would be a goo dmove for Labour at this point.

 

I feel if they had spent more time demolishing the TORY claims of being successful, and also opposed Austerity, they may have achieved something.

 

As for the Torys, well plaid, split your membership between TORY and UKIP knowing full well Some will return to Tory and also you were going to pick up the right wing LibDem voters.

 

 

 

yes, I feel I agree with these succinct points. Media bias also played its part. People feel safe with the status quo and also are scare mongered.

 

 

But I have been uncomfortable about the idea of a 'strong leader' and people voting for personalities. It feels a bit of a dated concept from the dominance era. I would much rather have wise (not fond of that word but can't think of a more appropriate one) leaders with inherent strength and compassion rather than the show we currently witness.

 

 

I actually thought NB came across as a credible, popular leader by current standards however. It is especially difficult for women too who have to be hard...but soft...not too soft and not too hard. Be in a masculine environment but be feminine, not too feminine.... wear just the right amount of make-up etc. I even think in these respects she was on par with NS.

 

 

I believe the green party has a unique system where its members vote on the policies it wants? So yes, as it grows membership, policies will expand too.

 

 

I don't want the greens to become grey to win though!

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Now if the Green's really want to become a force to listen to and get voted for they need a leader with the passion, fire, drive that

is currently in charge of the SNP. It's that sort of person we need in the PM's place in this country, one who is really for the people and

one that cares about the country. I might be in the UK but if Sturgeon's name had been on my polling papers I would have voted for her.

 

UkIP may have poled around 4mil votes but the leader was a joke and quite frankly any vote they got helped the Tories more than Labour.

 

The SNP wiped out Labour because of the poor leader and very lack lustre policies and David Cameron was praying for this to happen.

The final result may have been much closer than it was if it were not for the SNP killing labour in Scotland and the UKIP vote driving the

labour vote down.

 

The problem now is that we have to live with this situation and make the most of it.

 

So I expect that these forums may become somewhat busier over the next few years.

 

There are to many nandy pandy politicians in this country who are only there to feather theirs (and friends) nests. Most have about as much

use as a 1 bristle loo brush (and I think I being kind to them at that).

 

If Cameron gets his way and changes the boundaries in this country to shed 50-60 MPs and if the SNP keep hold of Scotland it's going

to take something really significant before the Tories would ever lose power again. I would not be surprised if Scotland did get independence

as that would effectively keep an additional 60mp's out of Westminster.

 

 

 

Yes, it maybe Conservatives forever now.

 

 

You raise the point about voting for NS if you could have. Last election, I went to vote, and the green party were not even on my ballot paper. In effect, I could not vote. I was disgruntled since I made a special effort to go. This time round I was allowed to vote for the greens, so I guess there has been some progress. I wonder how many other people have not been offered a green choice this time round? An obvious explanation as to why some people are not voting green lol

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Yes, it maybe Conservatives forever now.

 

 

You raise the point about voting for NS if you could have. Last election, I went to vote, and the green party were not even on my ballot paper. In effect, I could not vote. I was disgruntled since I made a special effort to go. This time round I was allowed to vote for the greens, so I guess there has been some progress. I wonder how many other people have not been offered a green choice this time round? An obvious explanation as to why some people are not voting green lol

 

There was no Green candidate in my constituency (Linlithgow and Falkirk East). I suppose it costs a lot of money that the Greens don't really have so they'll only run candidates where they feel there's a chance of a decent showing.

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The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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The Green Party used a novel method of raising their deposits. They crowdfunded a lot of them. So that if they generated the deposit there was a higher chance of retaining it as some degree of support was proven to be in the constituency

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  • 3 months later...

Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been contemplating. I was sad by the way the elections were being run and what was being spoken about via the media. Such selfish politics.

 

 

 

 

However, elsewhere, like here, there is a change which had not been fully picked up yet by mainstream media. And I couldn't agree more @determindator.

 

 

Since then, major figures such as The Pope and President Obama have stressed the importance of Earth Awareness. I nearly fell off my bed. I have long wondered why The Church (any church) has not been more forthcoming and formal in its teachings on Earth and Animal Care - and its nice to have witnessed the a beginning with The Pope and his speech on climate change.

 

 

Just discovered 'Benevolent Capitalism' - http://omtimes.com/2015/08/benevolent-capitalism/

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A interesting different thread and will follow.

I remember first coming across the Green Party in Manchester at the NHS protest at the Conservative Party Conference in Sept 2013.Over 50000 people there marching through the streets and past the chiefs of Austerity Britain locked down in their hotel.

After the march through Manchester we retired to a park with many speakers.

I was taking many photos when I came across something that grabbed my attention.

A couple of happy people full of smiles and so friendly.I seem to remember a sign or placard saying come meet your green candidates for Europe or something similar.

I did and what a set up they had full of fun, even had a coconut shy and I must say I feel they must have worked so hard.I took the candidates photos and put them on the NHS protest Video Manchester 2013 that I made on utube. Tried to find out their names afterwards to send them the picture.Sure made a impression on me.Smiling happy politicians this day and age, get out of here.

Just saying something different attracts people in these times.It seems the country is looking for something big to happen something different when it does and takes off who knows what may happen.

I am certainly no expert at politics just saying they sure made me smile that day and since then I have often wondered who were those happy confident people that seemed so different.And grabbed my attention so well.

Once met hard to forget is all I will add.

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I believe the answer to that was in #7

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It's the genuine people who want green and voted green I feel sorry for, they are badly let down by their leadership. Nothing was properly thought out nor, it would seem, any research done before a radio interview.

The 'we are going to' were just piled one upon the other and no clear cut plan laid out.

 

 

If they get rid of that ozzy woman perhaps they will have more luck next time.

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If they get rid of that ozzy woman perhaps they will have more luck next time.

 

I agreed with you on that point.

 

Although if JC gets in, I do not think the Green Party will do as well. A lot of their supporters are "old Labour" and young voters, These are being hoovered up by the JC camp.

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