How long is a ast valid for ?

[letsmakeamark]

How long is a assured shorthold tenancy valid for one the original 12 months have run out ?

Reason i am asking is another person i am helping has been given a s21 notice to quit followed by a n5c claim form for property. The original ast was for a year. Then it was signed up for another year but no paper work exchanged hands. Now in the paperwork provided with the summons the deposit has been protected till the tenancy ends it second year. Two questions

 

1. Is the s21 notice valid ?

2. The deposit although again protected seems to not have been protected with in 30 days of the satrt of the second year. How can i find this out.

[Guest]

'With most assured shorthold tenancies, you will sign up for a fixed number of months to begin with. This is often for a period of six months but it can be longer. After this period comes to an end, if you and your landlord want to extend the tenancy you may:

 

• be asked to sign up for another fixed number of months, or
  
• extend the tenancy on a rolling basis, from one week or one month to the next, without signing a new tenancy agreement.'
  

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/rent-arrears/assured-shorthold-tenancies-and-rent-arrears/#are_you_an_assured_shorthold_tenant

 

deposit info in that link. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice%20factsheets/Housing/h-tenancy-deposits.pdf

[mariner51]

I think the AST is regarded as the duration of the fixed term (term certain). If T remains in occupation and no new fixed term is agreed, it is imm followed by SPT with same T&Cs as orig AST, except for min Statutory Notice periods for LL & T.

You infer a deposit was taken and protected for first AST. If this was left in a Custodial Scheme account and no new deposit taken, the s21 for 2nd AST may be valid, the recent De-Regulation Act has given LLs with some unprotected Tenancy deposits until 30 June to comply.

As for 3. ring the deposit and ask.

[letsmakeamark]

The question that is nagging me is. The landlord confirmed another tenancy agreement was not needed and the ast would be extended for a further year. Unless he was thinking of something else. However the tenancy protection shows that the deposit is protected for a futher year from the start of the new tenancy and is protected three months after the tenant vacates the property. If it is a rolling tenancy then why has the deposit been protected for another year or is this how it works ?

[mariner51]

Sounds like LL agreed to let orig TA continue as SPT at end of 12 month fixed term,in which PI should have been re-issued at end of orig FT, but deposit would have remained protected if required Ins Premium ha been paid for continuation.

 

 

Helping another is admirable, but unless T responds, it can delay required info/lead to misleading info, ie was a new fixed term AST agreed/signed? When was PI provided? What are the various rel T dates?

OP can benefit from becoming a member of NLA/RLA for a rel small annual fee. IMO too many LA's are using this Forum for advice, without undertaking nec training. Even Law students expect rel Forums to provide answers to L&T Law exam questions.

I am prepared to help any open LL or T with a specific problem, but the Internet is not the fount of all knowledge.

[letsmakeamark]

Thanks mariner51.

 

 

The original ast was taken out in july 2013 for 12 months. When the ast ran out landlord agreed to another 12 months but did not sign a new agreement and said that the current agreement would suffice. Tenant confirmed this but did not get anything in writing. I have a copy of the landlord's correspondence dated late last year stating that he had explained to the tenant a few weeks ago why a new tenancy agreement was not needed. In December various things started to happen and landlord did not repair things that needed repairing. A ceiling fell down and things went from bad to worse. In feb 2015 landlord issued a sec 21 notice via letting agent. This expired in march. then approx. 4 days ago claim for possession was received. On this the landlord attached a copy of the deposit cert and also a copy of the notice. The deposit cert shows that the deposit is protected from july 2014 to july 2015. Also the tenancy agreement the tenant is holding has been witnessed at the same time as the landlords copy but the landlords copy has now been witnessed by a relative of his who was not present at the time. The tenant has also contacted my deposits who confirmed that the deposit has been protected for a year and not on a monthly tenancy. How is it proved in court that the s21 is invalid ? I have experience dealing with bailiffs and associated problems but have never dealt with this so deeply.

[Steve__M]

The time for which a deposit is protected is not necessarily related to the tenancy length.

 

Deposit protection is an insurance based system (for some schemes). You wouldn't insure your car month by month because you are thinking of selling it soon. You insure it for a year and then cancel it when the car is sold.

[letsmakeamark]

Tenant has had a reply back from My Deposits who state as follows :

 

 

Dear XXXXX

 

 

Thank you for your recent email.

We can confirm that we have 2 protections for you. One from 30/07/13 and was un protected on ** july 2014.

The other from as renewed on 14th july 2014 and is currently protected until 30 days after july 2015.

This is on a fixed term agreement and not a statutory periodic tenancy.

 

 

Kind regards ,

 

 

 

 

Administration service.

 

 

 

 

What do you make of this email ?

[legalistic]

letsmake a mark, I've only skimmed the posts. On my understanding, since 26 March 2015 landlords need no longer reprotect a deposit. They only need do it once. It's in s215B(1) Housing Act 2004 which was inserted by s32 Deregulation Act 2015. There are other changes e.g. to s21 notices, that come into force later in the year.

[letsmakeamark]

If the landlord is protecting the deposit himself. How is he suppose to do this?

[legalistic]

letsmakeamark, don't know if I've understood your question correctly. For one thing the LL does not protect the deposit himself but must put the moneyt in an authorized scheme.There is no longer any need for the LL to reprotect the deposit when there is a new tenancy agreement so long as it was correctly protected in the first place.How would reprotection have been done? I suppose the Prescribed Information (giving new details etc) would have had to be done all over again and a new number issued by the deposit protection service.

[letsmakeamark]

The question was if the Deposit has been put into a protection scheme then where does the landlord hold the money ? My deposits give you 2 options. Either pay into their account or hold the money your self.

[legalistic]

letsmakeamark, there are (three) different deposit protection schemes each with their own Ts and Cs and their own interpretation of the law.I've had a quick look at Mydeposits which is an insurance-based scheme. The LL keeps the money but pays a fee to Mydeposit for the duration of the tenancy. Their Ts and Cs require the deposit to be reprotected where there is a new fixed term or other material changes. They seem to be being very cautious in relation to the law. Deposit Protection Service (custodial) requires no such thing.

[letsmakeamark]

So would this mean if a ll renews protection for the year then that means the tenancy has been extended for a fixed period ? Rather than a rolling one ?

[mariner51]

No it does not TA & Statute defines length and type of T, not the deposit scheme.

In #1 you state 12 month term recently expired and LL said no extension reqd orig AST would suffice. Later you say T received s21, which would be a bit pointless for Court repo if LL was relying on new 12 month fixed term, leading me to think orig AST still in operation as SPT.

If LL used My Deposits Ins scheme, it just suggests he paid another annual Premium for deposit protection when last Premium expired.

[legalistic]

letsmakeamark and mariner51: the mydeposits website (which is very informative) says that the protection covers both the fixed term and any ensuing statutory periodic tenancy.One can always check these things by entering details on the website.

[letsmakeamark]

Legalistic the web site clearly states if a priodic tenancy then they should be notified and cover will changed. If not then annual premium = Fixed term

[legalistic]

letsmakeamark, I can't see what you are quoting. I tried to do a link to mydeposits Scheme Rules, effective from 7 Aug 2014 but it didn't work.This copy and paste aimed at landlords might work though:I wish to bring to your attention, that it is your responsibility to correctly Protect and Un-protect Deposits inaccordance with these Scheme Rules. At the end of the fixed term of the tenancy the Deposit will be Un-protected bythe Scheme unless you inform us otherwise. If a new fixed term tenancy is granted then the Deposit Protection mustbe renewed/re-protected and the relevant fee paid. If the tenancy rolls over into an SPT then the deposit does notrequire re-protecting but you must inform us of the status of the tenancy.

[letsmakeamark]

You can either extend the protection to cover the rolling Statutory Periodic Tenancy free of charge, or renew the protection and pay a new protection fee to cover a new Tenancy Agreement.

[legalistic]

letsmakeamark, OK mydeposits website seems to give out contradictory information.I think that how mydeposits interpret "protected" is different from how the law sees it. Mydeposits is concerned with getting its fees and giving the insurance cover whereas the law does not seem to be concerned with that. I have not seen it in any cases anyway.My feeling is that it's hard for the LL to get it legally wrong with mydeposits. You might be better off focusing on the validity of the s21 notice. It does not sound as if the required 2 months notice was given.

[letsmakeamark]

A quick update

General Form of Judgement or Order

 

Upon reading the court file and the court not being satisfied that the Claimant is entitled to a posession order.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT :

 

The matter is listed on 20/07/15 at the county court sitting in the uk @ 12 noon with a time estimate of 15 minuted when you should attend.

 

There appears to be an issue as to whether the tenants were provided with a fourth fixed term tenancy in july 2014.

 

Dated 17/06/15

 

The tenant has managed to get a hearing to explain what is going on and also has counter claimed.

 

 

 

At the hearing district Judge made it clear that there is a doubt over the length of the tenancy and if notice given was premature. Hearing fixed for November 2015.

LL in his witness statement claims that he accidently renewed the annual deposit cover rathar then notify my deposits and change it to monthly cover. The judge was not very happy as the landlord through his brief was trying to say that there was damage to the house. The dj pointed out that the only thing that we are there for is if the claim for posession is valid. See what happens next.

[letsmakeamark]

Havent updated this in a while. There was a hearing where judge ordered a full trial. Judge is questioning wether s.21 notice was given prematurely or not. Still awaiting a hering date.