Lowell/carter Unknown '3' CCJ issued at old address - now claiming CCJ arrears

[scratchyrat]

Hi,

 

First time poster, long time lurker, so be gentle!

 

My partner had an old mobile phone debt being chased by Lowell for 3 Mobile.

 

 

I sent them the Prove it letter in 2011 back not acknowledging the debt and requesting the credit agreement.

They sent back one page of an overdue mobile phone bill as proof. Nothing else.

The debt would have become statute barred at the end of this month.

 

Fast forward a few years, and it now turns out they issued a CCJ for £350 in January to an old address she has not lived at for 6/7 years,

whilst sending threat-o-grams to our current address and our previous address to this one.

 

She has had a letter from Bryan Carter Solicitors yesterday informing her that the CCJ is now in arrears of £150.

This was the first we'd heard of any CCJ being issued, never mind arrears,

and only today has it appeared on her Noddle credit report under her old address.

 

 

We have heard nothing from the court at all, but thats understandable given they were provided the wrong address. The noddle report says its £350.

 

They now want £350 for an original £70 debt, which was increased to £209 in 2011, and are adding on these CCJ arrears.

My partner has no job (not claiming benefits), no property and no real items a bailiff could repossess.

We rent and I own all the items in our flat.

 

I know nothing about CCJ's but a quick google indicates we'd have to pay £155 to apply to have it set aside.

They are demanding the CCJ arrears for £150 to be paid in full immediately.

I don't know if this is Bryan Carter adding this on, or this is court ordered.

 

We are not married but could they repossess my items as we share a home?

What should we do now?

Hopefully I've given enough details but please do ask if I've neglected to mention something.

[fkofilee]

Mr Carter likes to get judgements by default. And by god youve been hit with it.

You could probably get this set aside.

 

FYI Mobile agreements, apart from O2s refresh tariffs are not regulated by the CCA 1974.

[dx100uk]

can I clarify something before we deal with the wider issues

 

all you have received is a letter from carter demanding the money

nothing from any court bailiff or HCEO?

 

also you state she has not lived at this address for 6/7yrs

but you say this account was not SB'd at the date of the claimform?

 

how are you gauging the SB date?

 

dx

[scratchyrat]

Thank you fkofilee. I figured that was what they were up to. I've read that article and the N244 form. I'm not sure if she meets these, other than item 1.

 

1. that you did not receive the claim form

2. that you have an arguable defence if you are permitted to submit it

3. that it would be in the interests of justice to set aside the judgement and to allow you to present your case.

 

I'm not sure if we could claim an arguable defence, or rather,

what constitutes one in this instance.

Would them adding on their own excess charges count? The debt is only for £70.

 

Am I right in thinking if we did get it set aside, then they can just apply again to the correct address?

I'd quite like this to go away and would be willing to pay the original debt for her,

but not £350 or maybe even £500 if this arrears is added on.

Plus I have a feeling BC would not accept that offer.

 

It wasn't O2 Refresh, it was 3 Mobile. Since they are not regulated by the CCA 1974, how would they prove the debt?

 

I googled for CCJ arrears and there didn't seem to be a lot of information.

Is this actually a real thing or something my friend Mr Carter is making up?

[scratchyrat]

can I clarify something before we deal with the wider issues

 

all you have received is a letter from carter demanding the money

nothing from any court bailiff or HCEO?

 

 

dx

 

Hi dx, thanks for the reply. No, nothing from the court or anyone at this address, except for letters from Carter. The Noddle credit report shows her old address, which is how I know it was sent there.

 

also you state she has not lived at this address for 6/7yrs

but you say this account was not SB'd at the date of the claimform?

 

 

how are you gauging the SB date?

 

I'm gauging it from the overdue bill they previously sent as proof, which says "please pay by 29th May 2009". Not sure if this is correct or not. I have dyscalculia (numeracy dyslexia) so I'm very poor with math/numbers (hence the approximate 6/7 year statement), but she moved out of that address around May 2009.

[dx100uk]

when was her last payment or use of the phone

 

good theres no bailiff involved

just a silly DCA waving their arms around.

 

it is also 'telling' that they were writing to her present address

so knew it, but thought they'd try and pull a fast one by filing to a known old address.

 

however, it is a debtors responsibility to inform creditor of a change of address.

 

dx

[scratchyrat]

when was her last payment or use of the phone

 

If I recall, it would have been the month or sobefore I think, so April/May 2009. I can't say 100% but I do know she stopped using it around that time.

 

good theres no bailiff involved

just a silly DCA waving their arms around.

 

Do you think its likely the bailiffs will get involved? We have no plans to let them in if they do.

 

I thought it was them spouting hot air too, they've been doing just that for years, until she showed me the CCJ on her credit file.

 

it is also 'telling' that they were writing to her present address

so knew it, but thought they'd try and pull a fast one by filing to a known old address.

 

however, it is a debtors responsibility to inform creditor of a change of address.

 

dx

 

Indeed, I don't believe for one second that was an accident, they picked it off her credit report I imagine. I wasn't aware of that responsibility, that said ignorance is not a defence I suppose. Hopefully there won't be a next time for me to learn that lesson.

[dx100uk]

yep ok SB out the windows then sadly.

 

 

they the dca certainly cant add anything to the figure of the CCJ.

 

 

but like you I'm a bit surprised you say a £70 mobile bill go thru court resulting in £350 CCJ?

 

 

have you a copy of the CCJ yet?

 

 

you could yes set this aside, but that's £155 as you say

 

 

I think you need to findout about how this gotto to £209 by 2011

 

 

sar 3?

[scratchyrat]

they the dca certainly cant add anything to the figure of the CCJ.

 

So the arrears are fabricated? I don't know how CCJ's work with regards to repayment, and since we didn't know it was there we've not dealt with it.

 

you a copy of the CCJ yet?

 

Not yet, I'm going to call the court after the bank holiday and see if we can get a copy.

 

could yes set this aside, but that's £155 as you say

 

Indeed, and I think we'd end up back in the same place once they refile at the right address. I'm thinking I'd be better off seeing if they'd settle for £155 instead but I don't know if they'll negotiate now the court is on their side.

 

I think you need to findout about how this gotto to £209 by 2011

 

sar 3?

 

Not sure what Sar 3 is, but it got to £209 by Lowell tacking on their own fees and admin charges. I also asked them for a breakdown of this, but they never provided that. I don't know how it got to £350 from there.

 

*Edit - Read the SAR 3 link

[dx100uk]

well no dca can add any 'fees' to any debt they acquire

esp a mobile contract

as theres no T&C's to cover such as far as we've seen on CAG anytime.

 

 

so you could take the gamble and set it aside

but £155 for that might not be offset by the pennies saved in getting the unlawful fees removed...

 

 

bottom line is though

the CCJ is on her file for 6yrs - that's the rub I suspect.

 

 

how much is a clean CRA valued to you?

[scratchyrat]

so you could take the gamble and set it aside

but £155 for that might not be offset by the pennies saved in getting the unlawful fees removed...

 

Apologies, I'm not sure what you mean by this, did you mean I'd be better off using the £155 towards paying the CCJ off? Or something else relating to the unlawful fees?

Is it possible to get the court to change the judgement to a fairer figure?

I don't blame them, they were only acting on bad information from Bryan Carter.

 

bottom line is though

the CCJ is on her file for 6yrs - that's the rub I suspect.

 

how much is a clean CRA valued to you?

 

To her, not at all as her credit rating was already low due to this, so she doesn't see any difference, and I suppose she's right.

I'm the one who's a bit more concerned as its always been my aim to own a home.

We're not married or financially joined (no joint accounts etc),

but I'm worried her rating could have an impact on my ability to get a mortgage one day.

My credit rating has gone down recently, but I don't think its related.

 

Thank you for your patience, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

[dx100uk]

her CRA cant affect you no.

 

 

what I'm saying is, if there are charges that should not have lawfully been included in the CCJ

the would they offset the £155 it will take you to set aside?

somehow I doubt it...

 

 

funny enough its not the first time I've seen this this week...

might be a new tactic by farter/lowlife.

 

 

the claim total is so small that they add a wee bit and file and get a default judgement

as long as these little extras are below £155, it put a sour angle on a set aside

costs the debtor more to set aside than it does to let it run.

 

 

ok I'm slightly ignoring the fact that they might not contest the set aside

nor chase the 'debt' after the set aside...or issue a new claim again.

 

 

I'm also not sure if adding a wee bit by them, could be used

to convince the judge to set aside, not sure of any examples here.

 

 

however couple that with the fact that they sent letters to her new address

and this can be proved? it might just work

wrong amount, wrong address judge? please set this CCJ aside.

 

 

and then deal with the debt as and when it resurfaces.....

 

 

just musing

[fkofilee]

her CRA cant affect you no.

 

 

what I'm saying is, if there are charges that should not have lawfully been included in the CCJ

the would they offset the £155 it will take you to set aside?

somehow I doubt it...

 

 

funny enough its not the first time I've seen this this week...

might be a new tactic by farter/lowlife.

 

 

the claim total is so small that they add a wee bit and file and get a default judgement

as long as these little extras are below £155, it put a sour angle on a set aside

costs the debtor more to set aside than it does to let it run.

 

 

ok I'm slightly ignoring the fact that they might not contest the set aside

nor chase the 'debt' after the set aside...or issue a new claim again.

 

 

I'm also not sure if adding a wee bit by them, could be used

to convince the judge to set aside, not sure of any examples here.

 

 

however couple that with the fact that they sent letters to her new address

and this can be proved? it might just work

wrong amount, wrong address judge? please set this CCJ aside.

 

 

and then deal with the debt as and when it resurfaces.....

 

 

just musing

 

DX is completely right, Carter have a habit of filing at old addresses but its very interesting that you say they were writing to the new address and got a claim to the old one.

If your wife if on benefits, i think there maybe help she can get from the court regarding paying fees, but dont count me to that ...

 

Plus agree with DX, why is it so much?! For such a little debt?... Seems strange that they would charge 3 - 4 x what the original debt was...

[scratchyrat]

Hi there,

 

Sorry if this is dumb question as I'm a champion at overlooking minor details.

 

I've got an old debt that a CCJ has been issued on, and having taken advice from National Debt Line, I'm filling out an N245 form. Unfortunately they close at 1pm, so I can't call them and ask this, and Googling has not brought up many answers.

 

The form mentions "I enclose the fee of ___" but does this mean I have to send them a cheque with the application form? I don't have a cheque book and it's been years since I've even seen one. Is there another way I send the court the money?

 

I've put a breakdown of my financials, but do I need to enclose any proof of this such as a bank statement?

[scratchyrat]

I called MCOL's helpdesk, apparently I have to send a cheque or postal order. I can't even register with them at the moment.

[citizenB]

Yes, either a postal order or even a bank cheque if you have no cheque book.

 

In response to the other part of your question about providing income details and proof.

 

The government link below advises only that you send proof of your income and spending. So yes, you would need to include an Income and Expenditure sheet. Do you have one of these - I think National Debtline have an online Budget sheet you can print off, however, I have attached the one that we provide to those people facing repossession that is acceptable to the court. It does all the adding up for you

 

Perhaps a copy of your bank statement that provides evidence of income might be a good idea.

 

https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt/if-you-do-owe-the-money-pay-the-judgment

 

 

Ellens Budget Sheet.xls

[citizenB]

Keep a copy of everything you send to the court and if you are using Royal Mail, at the very least obtain a free proof of posting, but better to send by a tracked method.

[scratchyrat]

Thank you CitizenB.

 

The N245 form itself seems to have a financial statement which I have filled out. I'm going to add in a bank statement for the last 2 years or so. I intend to send everything off signed for recorded.

 

I've found a friend who has a cheque book I can borrow from.

 

The N245 advice notes I've now found say I also have to include my partners finance details. Is this true? We're entirely separate in finances and although we live together, are not married, and I don't think my situation should reflect on my partner. Surely they can't expect my partner to be responsible for clearing my debt?

[AndyOrch]

You must use the N245 I&E not any other or the court will reject it.

 

Where does it state you have to include your partners income?

 

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n245-eng.pdf

 

Regards

 

Andy

[scratchyrat]

You must use the N245 I&E not any other or the court will reject it.

 

Where does it state you have to include your partners income?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

That is the exact form I've filled out. It has sections on financial incomings and outgoings I've completed.

 

My question was should I include proof of my outgoings and income in addition to this?

 

You are right, it doesn't state anywhere on there that I should. However when I called the court to ask for an email copy of the CCJ, they included an N245 form and N245 guidance notes in their email. It's those guidance notes that mention it.

 

I can't find a copy online, but I've shared it on my GDrive for reference. This is a copy of what the County Court Business Centre sent me.

 

I am a little confused right now.

[scratchyrat]

Post number 10, allowing me to post the link

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p_1zzvJCTmx4UtfnscXufwRE7cp8VHTl4U6pFk0IY8U/edit?usp=sharing

[AndyOrch]

Look at 6 its states.....MY income....also " others in my home give me £ per ...." in 7 it states do not include any payments made by any other members of your household out of their income.

 

So I would list my own income and my own expenses...it does not ask if you a have a partner.

 

You dont need to provide any further other than the completed N245.

[scratchyrat]

Look at 6 its states.....MY income....also " others in my home give me £ per ...." in 7 it states do not include any payments made by any other members of your household out of their income.

 

So I would list my own income and my own expenses...it does not ask if you a have a partner.

 

You dont need to provide any further other than the completed N245.

 

You are right.

 

Where the confusion for me is coming in is this. The County Court's email said "If you are unable to pay your Judgment you can apply to pay by instalments using the N245 ‘Application for variation of an order’ form. Please read this letter and the enclosed notes thoroughly before sending the application to the court as incorrectly completed applications will be returned to you."

 

It's in the enclosed notes where it mentions a partners income. These notes actually have a few things that seem contradictory.

 

I'm thinking ignore the notes and go with a completed N245 and a cheque sent Signed For delivery.

[scratchyrat]

Hi there,

 

I posted a while ago about getting an N245 in for an old (ramped up) mobile phone debt Bryan Carter were chasing on behalf of Lowell Financial.

 

The court found in my favour and agreed to my payment plan as Bryan Carter did not respond in time. Two weeks after the court sent me a letter informing me of this, Bryan Carter wrote to me and said that they would accept my offer of payment.

 

What has worried me is they also wrote this, quoted word for word.

 

"Payments made may be applied first to offset costs incurred and your balance at Lowell Financial Limited may not therefore reduce exactly in accordance with payments made."

 

This has confused me.

 

 

What does this actually mean, because to me it sounds like they're going to take the payments I make to pay of unspecified costs

(which are not part of the CCJ) first, therefore not reducing my actual debt.

 

 

Is this right, and can they do this?

 

 

It doesn't sound very fair as I'd still be left with X amount of debt.

[scratchyrat]

Hmm, sorry, this was meant to be a new thread. Unless a mod merged it?