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Bilgeman v natwest ** WON **


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They must have been listening. Had a letter today (mentioned in another thread 'Any Thoughts and Views Welcome' threatening me with court action but also stating that 'if you hold an Advantage Gold Account (well spotted gizmo111), you will no longer be entitled to any of the associated benefits (big deal!!) and will not be charged the membership fee for this account in the future.' There you go, then.

 

Keep on keeping on....

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Quote from my letter to NatWest:

 

'I will not discuss this matter over the phone. Please regard this letter as an instruction to conduct all future business by letter so that I have a copy. Do NOT telephone me at home.

 

With regard to the above matter and further to my previous letter of **** I understand you have been trying to contact me by telephone to discuss this. There is nothing to discuss. The money you claim to be outstanding is part of a sum I am claiming as unlawful and as such the account is in dispute. Therefore this amount will not be paid to you because such a move might be seen by the Court as an admission of liability.

 

As soon as this is resolved, I will move on and address any remaining issues, although by then there should not be any. Until then things will have to remain as they are. It is unreasonable for you to demand payment whilst I am commencing legal action and I believe the Court would agree with this...'

Yes, you'd have thought that would have been enough but no -- they've called me twice today (Sunday) despite me telling them last time that I would be reporting the matter. They seem to think because they allege to be a different department that it doesn't apply. As I've said, the current drivel is coming from 'Credit Management Services' whoever they might be. Anyway, I told them on the phone not to ring me and I shall write to them. On top of this, the matter is now the subject of a court claim and I would have thought their continually ignoring my request might well been seen as harrassment. Does ANYBODY have any suggestions about how I should deal with this? As the thread title says - 'Any Thoughts and Views Welcome'

Cheers, Folks...

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Formerly known as Insolvency and Debt Recovery Department based in Telford and I know that when it goes there that the account will be shut. I would write or print off previous all in writing and not phone and send it to them

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Thanks - yes, it's Telford. I've written to them outlining the above and we'll see how it goes. I wonder, though, surely they can't be unaware that it's going to Court. Are they just trying to catch me out?

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Hi again.

 

I did as you suggested. The letter was delivered (recorded) on Septmber 19 and I received yet another call totally ignoring me yesterday (20th). They seem to think I don't have the right to insist that everything done in writing and that they don't have to take any notice of my request. Perhaps they're right, I don't know. Anybody suggest the next move? Cheers

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Credit Whatever They're Called This Week have contacted me again - by letter this time as requested. They're still demanding that I contact them re making an arrangement to pay. Surely this is out of order when there's an ongoing court claim in progress. Can I complain officially and if so, who to? I phoned the Court bu they weren't interested saying they couldn't comment on the case - fair enough but I wasn't actually asking them to.

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I got what I presume is a standard letter from Cobbett’s today which reads:

‘Dear Sir

……….Our client considers that your challenge to its charges would fail in Court. Our client believes that its charges are fair, reasonable and transparent. It considers that the amounts debited to your account have been applied strictly in accordance with your agreement with it and its published tariff, which it is satisfied complies with all applicable laws and regulations. Our client is also committed to ensuring the transparency of the information that it gives to its customers about the operation of its products. As such, our client does not believe that your claim has any prospect of succeeding.

However, as a gesture of goodwill and strictly on the basis that our client rejects any liability to you, it is willing to offer you a goodwill payment of (a figure of slightly less than two thirds of that claimed).

Acceptance by you of this goodwill payments will be in full and final settlement of your claim against our client and strictly on the basis that:-

1 you agree not to disclose to any third party the fact of, or any details relating to, this payment

2 you write to the Court withdrawing your claim.

Whilst this letter is written without prejudice save as to costs, in the event that you decline this offer, we will draw this letter to the Court’s attention on the basis that we hold the firm view that this offer is entirely reasonable in the circumstances. This offer will remain open for 7 days etc blah blah……

We look forward to hearing from you’

Oh no you don’t. You might look forward to what you think you’re going to hear from me but not what you’re actually going to get.

The following is what I would really like to write but, as usual, I’m offering it up here before I do in case anyone thinks I’m stepping over whatever lines there may be.

‘Dear Sirs

Thank you for your letter of ……..2006.

I am surprised that such a large, well-regarded company such as your client seems unaware of the realities of the laws and regulations regarding such a fundamental aspect of its business. Very worrying.

I feel it’s a little presumptuous of both your client and yourselves to make assumptions as to how a Court will act on a case. Taken to its logical conclusion your attitude would surely do away with the need for Courts at all.

As regards your ‘goodwill’ offer – as my claim involves only monies unlawfully taken from my account acceptance of such an offer would constitute goodwill not on your client’s part, but on mine, as I would be waiving a large percentage of what it owes me.

I am prepared to accept the figure offered on the flowing basis:-

1 you do not lay down the law as to what I can and cannot disclose to whomsoever

I choose.

2 it is an initial payment only made under the understanding that I shall continue

with my claim for the remaining balance which includes monies not covered by

your offer, interest at 8% as per the original claim and the Court Fee already

incurred (and also included in the original claim).

3 I do not write to the Court withdrawing my claim, merely to tell them some of it

has been paid and to advise the of the new balance.

If your client is happy with the above please request them to make their cheque payable to (Me) and send it to my address which you have on file.’

How’s that for first thing Saturday morning???

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I think I may have made a mistake with the original title of this thread (or completely unoriginal should I say?) as it doesn't really seem to attract much comment. Don't get me wrong - there have been some useful ones along the way - but I'd really like to know what people think about the posting above before I go ahead. My main concern has always been, in the unlikely event that they did call my bluff and take this all the way, the Court would consider an offer of two thirds of the amount claimed brought the amount paid out to within 'reasonable' Two thrids of £36 per returned d/d, for example, leaving exactly the £12 that it's argued is the correct amount to charge - even though we know that isn't set in stone by any means. I just wonder if I'd be shooting myself in the foot.

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Guest NATTIE

Bilgeman- to change title contact a Moderator but you are doing fine. No judge would agree that a penalty charge where the cost has not been proven to be £12 would say that you have been unreasonable in rejecting a two thirds offer. From what I have read so far everything is textbook. Good Luck and stay positive

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Don't know really. Something a little less bland and unimaginative than 'Any thoughts and Views Welcome'. Awful.

 

What about 'You must believe, boy. you must...

believe.' (All Indiana Jones fans will understand that one)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update time:-

 

I sent off the rejection of offer letter and have had no reply from Cobbett's as yet. However, I have had a letter from the Court setting the hearing date for early January.

 

In the meantime, I'm still getting hassled by a completely different set of vultures called Green & Co, who are apparently part of 'Credit Management Services' in Telford who have featured before in this thread. They seem to be acting totally outside the claim and are demanding that I contact NatWest to make an arrangement to pay. This is, apparently, my 'final opportunity' before action. As usual they are threatening me with door to door debt collectors and legal proceedings. Can they do this? Surely while there is an ongoing Court Case they are acting unlawfully. Can anybody help? Should I contact them as suggested and tell them to back off? Any suggestion that I was willing to negotiate would surely go against me later?

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Thanks - I phoned them yesterday and challenged them about this and they apologised and said the letter had gone out in error (!!??). I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt this time but if they do it again things may change.

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Does anybody know what the position is if they send a cheque for the full amount but written out so it has to be paid into the account the dispute's about, even though that account has been closed by the bank. Also, if there are charges on that account that have been applied after the claim was lodged, some of the money would be swallowed up by those charges. They would then have to be reclaimed under a separate court action. Can they force this issue or can you pay the cheque into any account regardless of them specifying (on the payee line) that it has to be paid into a prticular account (and a clsoed one at that!!)

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Surely the accoutn cannot be closed if charges are still been applied? if you can get a balance or anything like that the account is most definitely active.

 

Did this account have previous charges applied - ie the charges you are claiming back? If it does, I would suggest that you do bank the cheque in that bank account because you will still have the charges outstanding... and the purpose of these exercises is to get the money to pay off the charges or.. if the charges have already been paid, then its for you to spend how you please!

If you find this post useful, please click the Scales of 'Justice' in the top right corner. Thanks ;)

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OK, Folks, here's how it stands. Yesterday started off brightly when I received a letter containing a cheque for the 'full amount'. The letter was the usual no admission of liability twaddle, do not disclose to third party, full and final settlement and that it is, of course, a 'goodwill' payment. When I stopped dancing about the room and punching the air whilst going 'Yeah!' etc., I looked more closely and discovered that the cheque is certainly made out to me but there is a stipulation that it's paid into the disputed account which I understood to have been closed and passed over to the Collections people at Telford. I have also received letters from solicitors threatening legal action which I have mentioned earlier in this thread. Also, although the letter states the cheque to be full and final settlement, it does not include the twenty-odd quid claimed as interest, although it does include the Court Fee. Irrespective of this, the fact remains that I am obliged to pay this cheque into NatWest who will obviously consider the money can be used to clear my 'debt' to them. I don't have a problem with bringing the account balance to zero - that includes the official overdraft and any negative balance resulting from the charges now repaid but, as I have said, there were substantial charges applied to this account after the claim was submitted. I don't want to be in a position where they can argue that these later charges aren't repayable because, by cashing the cheque, I have accepted their terms. I know that merely because they say something it doesn't alter the law but it can only serve to complicate matters.

 

The other concern I have is that, if I return the cheque and decline to stop the action, they might argue that I have refused full and final settlement even though this is clearly not the case because of the unpaid interest.

 

Are they within their rights to dictate into which account I pay the money or do I have the option of returning the cheque and either requesting another with no such conditions or asking that they issue two separate cheques, one covering the amount 'owed' to the bank, and the other being the balance owed to me. Of course, then I would still have to start a further action to claim back the charges imposed later.

 

A bit complex, I know, but I'm sure I'm not the first this has happened to.

 

As the title says, Any Thoughts and Views Welcome.

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Just thinking I should write back to them saying I accept this as a part payment but will be pursuing the outstanding amount, including the interest not paid, in a further action, and give them 14 days to reply before banking the cheque. How does that sound?

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Hi there,

 

Sorry I can't answer your question, but I'm very interested in your case, as mine is similar, in the fact the my account has now been closed but I have recently set-up a payment plan (before I found this site) to pay back the money my account is in arrears by (£2,500 approx), which I think I could claim back in charges over the past six years, but I will find that out when I get my bank statements that I have sent off for today.

 

Anyway I will keep following your thread and see how you get on, well done for everything so far and good luck!x:)

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Just thinking I should write back to them saying I accept this as a part payment but will be pursuing the outstanding amount, including the interest not paid, in a further action, and give them 14 days to reply before banking the cheque. How does that sound?

 

If you mean accept their offer of part payment and pursue the rest.......I think, and I mean think, that they will not send you a cheque for the amount they offered you if you've told them that you are still going to pursue the rest

 

Is that what your getting at??

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WE BEAT THE LITTLE TINKERS!!!!!!!!

 

Me and this brilliant site together.

 

 

I spoke to the branch yesterday. They have real people there - it only seems to be when they get promoted that they become automations and zombies. The cheque has been banked, so what happens now is that the outstanidng 'debt' is paid off and the balance sent to me as another cheque. That's fine. The balance is money that I paid into the account to cover charges before I heard about this site so that's MINE. What remains then is the three hundred odd quid that has been embezzled in charges since I filed my claim. This, of course, will be swallowed up because they are paying off the whole balance of the account before sending me what's left. That, then, will be the subject of a further claim which I will be filing immediately.

 

This, then, is closure for this particular action. It all worked exactly as it was supposed to do down to the accompanying letter that came with the cheque (not worth going to Court - legal fees - commercial sense etc). Thanks to all concerned and best of wishes to all of you who are still waiting for justice. As soon as I get my cheque and it's banked I'll be making a donation to the fund.

 

Then it's on to the next claim. There's also Barclays to contend with, but that's a different story...

 

You're also getting quite popular amongst friends and relatives, particularly my brother who's got issues going back to the six year boundary. I've told him to get all the info together and I'll help him with it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Final Posting on This Thread

 

Got my cheque for the balance today. £576. Also, a letter telling me my 'indebtedness to the Bank' has now been discharged (including, presumably, the three hundred odd quid they still owe me). They do like to have the last word, don't they?

 

That's it then.

 

Thanks to everybody for advice, help and encouragement and best of luck (not that LUCK plays a part really) to you all.

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