JSA - coach asking for my UJM password

[superj]

Hi all.

 

Im on JSA.

Was asked to make UJM account to search for work and make log, all is good.

 

Last time i was in the JCP to sign my coach has told me that i MUST bring in my user name and password so they can access my account. I previously gave them my email for the account so they can check im doing my bit as per job seeker agreement which i have no problem with at all. This request for username and password is not wrote on my most recent JSA agreement i note!

 

Its just, im not sure they should be asking for my username and password. I thought that was private? my password

 

I have this coach recorded saying this in audio file also as i dot trust DWP at all due to the things happened in past.

 

Should i ignore this request? To me it just sounds wrong but i dont want a benefit sanction.

TIA

[essexmat]

Ask you 'coach' if they have an understanding of the data protection laws? If they don't ask him/her to have a read of them on their way home from work.

 

To answer your question, no, you are not at liberty to give your UJM password to your coach and there is NOTHING they can do to make you re sanctions.

[superj]

Ok.

Great that you say this as i kinda thought it was wrong for them to ask for it. Thing is that is that this coach is not new to their role and has worked at my local JCP for years and years and i dont know their job description but this person is not the lowest level in terms of their role as a coach, they do other things also.

 

Its not the usual person you see for signing, this person is higher up the ladder, i dont know the job role names but this person is certainly not what i would describe as "bottom of the ladder".

Thanks for getting me back to me so soon, i appreciate this.

 

If asked for my password i will have it with me in my pocket in case they did mention sanction but i will frown and mention data protection laws before, giving my password will be a last resort.

[renegadeimp]

Last resort? You simply tell them to jog on. You are under no obligation to supply the info and they cannot make you do so. Simple as that.

[BazzaS]

Hi all.

 

Im on JSA.

Was asked to make UJM account to search for work and make log, all is good.

 

Last time i was in the JCP to sign my coach has told me that i MUST bring in my user name and password so they can access my account. I previously gave them my email for the account so they can check im doing my bit as per job seeker agreement which i have no problem with at all. This request for username and password is not wrote on my most recent JSA agreement i note!

 

Its just, im not sure they should be asking for my username and password. I thought that was private? my password

 

I have this coach recorded saying this in audio file also as i dot trust DWP at all due to the things happened in past.

 

Should i ignore this request? To me it just sounds wrong but i dont want a benefit sanction.

TIA

 

I'd advise emailing / giving them a letter stating :

1) you are happy to log-in (with your password) and let them check your list of job applications / matches with you there, and you logging out when they have finished.

2) you are happy to give them your account details (but not password) so that they can check using their system, if they are able.

3) you don't believe you should be obliged to provide them with your password (which should be personal, and known by you alone) so if they are insisting they need your password, you want them to write / email you, stating their insistence and (them) stating you are obliged to comply, so that you can then make a formal complaint. Keep a copy of that e-mail / letter.

 

I have often found that people are happy to say one thing and insist they are entitled to make a demand, but when push comes to shove and they have to commit to creating a record of what they are saying / asking for, that they suddenly become less certain they are acting within their rights!

 

I agree with you : your password should be personal to you. You shouldn't have to give it to anyone.

 

They should be given the access they need, under their own password, or allow you to log on for you to gain access for them to see what they need, but you get to be present (and calling up the info without them getting your password).

[superj]

Exactly, they already confirmed previously that they can now see my activity as i gave them my email address for the account.

I will stand my ground on this then, like i say i have this person recorded in audio file telling me i must give them my username password on my next visit.

 

Thanks for the input on this one, your replys have been my confirmation that its not right.

[Mr.P]

Ask you 'coach' if they have an understanding of the data protection laws? If they don't ask him/her to have a read of them on their way home from work.

 

To answer your question, no, you are not at liberty to give your UJM password to your coach and there is NOTHING they can do to make you re sanctions.

 

Also instruct this "adviser" to read the terms & conditions regarding government gateway login and passwords. If (s)he continues, offer to trade for personal credit card account/pin numbers and/or his DWP passwords.

 

Before you have to see this individual again, I would strongly recommend you file an official complaint with DWP central office. Include a transcript of the conversation and then sit back to watch the $*** hit the fan.

[tommy456]

On another point claimants of JSA do not have to use UJM at all to search/apply for jobs it is or was not a requirement in law

[Conniff]

If it was the norm for them to access your account, you would 'not' have been asked to subscribe using a password, it would have been open for them to see.

 

Never ever give a password for any type of thing to anyone. We can't see your password on here and that is how it should be. Your accounts are your private business including the likes of Facebook and Twitter.

You should report him/her to the supervisor. If they can see what is going on but say your not doing as you should be, you can tell him you resent being called a liar.

[SabreSheep]

It should be noted YOU CAN CHOOSE HOW YOU PRESENT your jobsearch evidence.

 

Once an adviser told me it all had to be recorded on ujm as they weer going paperless.

 

I simply replied with "The regulations do not allow you to force me to do that" and demanded to see her manager immediately and to see where the regulations have changed.

 

After 10 mins she returned with "My manager says the regulations are available on the internet from the gov website"

 

My reply was, I know, Ive read them.

 

I simply stated that If they no longer had the templates, that I would use one of my own. Funnily enough, theirs turned up at that point!

 

It took 2 appointments to finalise my claimant commitment

 

I got a job the week after and signed off

 

[jasta11]

Looks like some advisers are still trying the old 'you must give us access' game - you'd have thought by now they'd have learned that people are far more aware of the rules.

 

Glad you got it on audio recording - you should type it up in a nice complaint letter, referring them to their Universal Jobmatch Toolkit guidance which clearly states they have no power to make you give access to UJ and also refer them to their own PCS Union memo of 2013 which was sent to all Jobcentres telling them they must not attempt to gain access to customer's UJ accounts. The union were pretty annoyed about this at the time as they're firmly against the use of UJ.

[Nystagmite]

I'm sure every website I sign up to, whether that's here, online banking, email, Facebook, etc. tells me NOT to share my details with anyone and also tells me I can't share my account with anyone.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Clause 82 of UJ Toolkit:

82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this – it is not therefore possible to require JSA claimants to give DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account.

[andydd]

It should be noted YOU CAN CHOOSE HOW YOU PRESENT your jobsearch evidence.

 

Once an adviser told me it all had to be recorded on ujm as they weer going paperless.

 

I simply replied with "The regulations do not allow you to force me to do that" and demanded to see her manager immediately and to see where the regulations have changed.

 

After 10 mins she returned with "My manager says the regulations are available on the internet from the gov website"

 

My reply was, I know, Ive read them.

 

I simply stated that If they no longer had the templates, that I would use one of my own. Funnily enough, theirs turned up at that point!

 

It took 2 appointments to finalise my claimant commitment

 

I got a job the week after and signed off

 

 

Agreed. Its up to you how you present your jobsearch, UJM has got an option you can tick that allows the job center to see your applications anyway, so there is no need EVER to give them your password.

[tfp]

Direct this JCP employee to this site:

 

 

https://www.cyberstreetwise.com/passwords

 

 

This is a government website giving advice about being safe online. Which is laughable as we have civil servants working for the DWP intent on potentially compromising the online safety of the jobseekers they purport to help.

[Mr.P]

Direct this JCP employee to this site:

 

Better still, refer them to their own internal DWP policy on passwords and the advice from the PCS union.

Quoting from: http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/hr-guidance/disciplinary-action/changes-to-disciplinary-policy-and-standards-of-behaviour-for-information-security.cfm

 

The key message to staff is that breaches of DWP information security and associated HR policies or procedures, such as the standards of behaviour, “will be treated extremely seriously as serious or gross misconduct”.

 

The additional examples of serious misconduct under policy paragraph 13.2 are:

• Putting customer, employee or other sensitive official information or data at risk by failing on more than one occasion to protect passwords and/or smartcards.
  
• Reckless disregard for the handling, use or disclosure of information.
  

The additional examples of gross misconduct under policy paragraph 13.3 are:

 

• Deliberate sharing of smartcards, passwords or other access control devices that provides access to customer, employee or other sensitive information.
  

 

If the adviser continues in his/her demands, then a formal complaint should be made on the grounds it breaches DWP policy and falls within the remit of gross misconduct.

[tfp]

Good point Mr.P. Shocking (although not too surprising) that DWP civil servants (who's very tile suggests they're supposed to be serving the public) either do not know their own internal guidelines / policies. OR they know them perfectly well but take absolutely no notice anyway.

[caledfwlch]

If like me you have problems with handwriting (in my case a combination of Dysphraxia and carpal tunnel syndrome) You can use the Universal Jobsmatch (not sure how useful in recording it is since most of the jobs seem to link you accross to for example Reed's website!) and you then give your advisor your email address and they can check your application history, rather than handing over access number and password - there is no reason why they should be demanding your password!

 

I had an advisor complaining that I hadn't been to their voluntary jobs club because he was "learning more about his own systems from watching me than his limited training taught him"!!!!!!!!