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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
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      • 3 replies
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      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
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Hi All,



I was about to pick up the phone to try and negotiate a settlement with ANPR but after reading threads on here I thought I should ask your advice.



Long story so I will try to keep as brief as possible. I rent an office space and my tenancy agreement states I am entitled to two parking spaces in the twelve space private car park. Last November I changed my vehicle, the car I bought went to my local garage to be serviced and I placed my parking permit in the courtesy vehicle. The day I collected my new car I forgot to move the parking pass back.



I received a ticket that day so I called ANPR to explain and was told I had to appeal. The office letting agents made it clear they would not help. I wrote to ANPR Appeals Dept. the following day but they responded saying that they do not accept excuses. I then sent a copy of my vehicle registration and tenancy agreement which they ignored. I sent a third letter which again was ignored.



I called them and they advised me to contact POPLA (something I had over looked on their response letter due to be being so irate whilst reading it). I was late doing this but when I did the code issued to me was for a different ticket issued to somebody 200miles away.



I then had the call with the 'independent' solicitor at Expedion and we are now at the stage of defending myself at the small claims court and I am beginning to wish I had just paid the fine in the first place.



The warden who patrols the area told me that he would not have issued the ticket if he had realised it was my car. He often over looks vehicles without passes when he gets to know who they belong to.



The letting agents did not issue passes for 2015 until the 10th Feb 15 and one business owner on there still has no pass but the warden overlooks it because he knows this gentlemans car. I have emails stating the passes were only posted out 10/2/15 meaning a number of people had to park without a valid permit between 1/1/15 - 11/2/15. ANPR claim there are no grey areas but there clearly are when the managing agent of the complex fail to issue parking permits for 6 weeks yet nobody is ticketed.



Key points


  • I admitted in my first letter that I was parked without a permit
  • I supplied ANPR with my vehicle registration document and tenancy agreement stating my right to park in that area. There is no mention of permits/rules in this agreement.
  • ANPR issued an incorrect POPLA code
  • I was late contacting POPLA
  • Passes for 2015 were not issued until mid-Feb
  • The sign says 'Permit Holders Only', which I am. It doesn't state a permit must be displayed

Thank you for taking the time to read this.



What do I do next?? Go to court or pay up?? Any advice would be appreciated.

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O/k, your first mistake was to admit that you were the driver. You should have waited for the Notice to Keeper - but this can be got around. Their mistake was to send you the wrong POPLA code. Your tenancy agreement and right to park there ( whether you displayed a permit or not ) overrides their Parking Charge Notice. Let them do all the running now. Other more experienced Caggers will be along shortly.

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Thanks for that Billy 's mate. I have just discovered my next mistake. POPLA have told me that the incorrect details that appear after entering your code are there as guidance and should be typed over, i presumed it was an autofill attached to the code. I have asked if my appeal was dealt with but I know I was very late logging this appeal as it didn't register with me when I first read ANPR's response. I just rushed head first into another letter to them. Do you still think my tenancy agreement will surfice? Thanks

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Your tenancy agreement, which states that you have 2 parking spaces, trumps their Mickey Mouse "Contract" every time.


Have they gone so far as to issue a court claim against you, or are they just threats to do so? If they have issued, what are the relevant dates?

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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I was issued with claims forms from the County Court Bulk Centre in Northampton last week, I've logged my defence on moneyclaim.gov.uk and yesterday received a letter from Small Claims offering mediation service and requesting dates I couldn't attend court.

Although I know, 100% that I am in the right and these people are profiteering leeches I am now getting nervous that they have takien it this far and my over sight of the POPLA process could be costly. The fact no passes were issued for the car park till mid-feb may also be thrown out unless I was to call other business owners as witnesses, which I really do not want to do. Everybody is busy enough without being dragged into my argument with these parasites!


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Why are you getting worried about this? As Dragonfly said above, if you have a tenancy agreement in writing which states that you have access to two of the parking spaces in the car park then that kills any claim dead in it's tracks. This is the only evidence you need to display at court, I wouldn't bother getting the other companies on the site involved.


You don't need to agree to mediation as it doesn't apply in your situation. You owe them precisely naff all so there's nothing to mediate over.


Permits or passes are pretty much irrelevant and useless on private land, not having a permit on a vehicle hasn't cost ANPR anything. Furthermore, ANPR don't own the land, they're just contracted by the landlord to monitor it. As a result they have no legal interest in the land and have no rights to claim for losses or breaches of contract on it.


The only thing that matters is if the right to park there is defined in your tenancy agreement with the landowner then it's set in stone. ANPR cannot touch you and a county court judge will probably laugh them out of court.

Please note;


I am not a legally qualified solicitor and all my advice is based on my past experiences in the relevant field. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidance only.

I would always recommend to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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  • 3 months later...

Well tomorrow is the deadline for ANPR to pay £55 to take me to court. I received a call from them today offering me one last chance to pay before proceeding to court. Their 'legal representative' said if I paid £210 in the next 24 hours they would drop the case. I told her I would see them in court!! Hoping this is their final bluff and I never hear from them again.



Has anybody else experienced this tactic?

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Just sask yourself why they would drop the case if they were confident that they'd win in court.

Sit back, relax and watch them walk away with nothing.

Stay strong.

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  • 1 month later...

Only four days until court and ANPR appear to be taking this all the way. I called the court a couple of weeks ago and ANPR hadn't withdrawn their claim so I got all my evidence together - tenancy agreement, letters to ANPR, phone records showing I called them the morning after the ticket, emails from the agent representing the land owner & VC5 document. I sent copies (recorded deliver) to ANPR and hand delivered copies to the court - I have received nothing from them. The letter states each party must deliver to the other party and the court copies of all the documents they intend to rely on at the hearing so I am hoping this is another black mark against them.

Although this matter has been a massive inconvenience and cost me more than initial £50 fine, victory in court against these parasites will be worth every penny .... lets just hope I win!!



Thanks for all your previous responses. The advice is much appreciated.

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Did it give a time the documents must be exchanged by? If so tell the judge that ANPR have failed to follow the courts instructions and say that you request that they be struck out or an adjournment be made to give you time to read through them and offer rebuttal evidence. Courts dont like this so the judge will undoubtedly skim through the paperwork and then say what is going to happen and generally ask you if you agree. It normally menas that the paperwork they have not produced isnt worth the effort anyway but that does not mean an automatic victory to you. If they have a solicitor then that person will get a tearing off for being so shoddy.

If ANPR try and hand over their bundle whilst you are waiting refuse it and say that you wish to speak to the judge first. That will stop them trying to ambush you as the chances are they have hired a lawyer for an hour at short notice and they dont know what the ins and outs of the case are and wont be happy about their clients treatment of them, who will be getting the flak.

Dont forget to ask for your costs of say 5 hours Litigant in Person research and preparation costs at £18ph plus travel, loss of earnings and photocopying etc. Make sure you can prove the loss of earnings and travel.

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The court papers stated 14 days before the hearing. I sent documents to ANPR 3 days before the deadline and delivered to court 2 days before. I hadn't considered they may try to give me documents on the day. I hope the judge is trying to make an example of them by taking it to court.


Will I be able to submit these expenses/losses on the day or should I have included it in my defence documents?



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so I am told but the £18 is well accepted so no-one will question how or why you have arrived at £90 wher if you go over this amount you may be asked to justify your time.

Make up a schedule of your costs and have copies handy to give to the judge and to the claimant so it is clear that they are not just plucked out of the air. Smae goes with travel costs, either 2nd class rail fare or car @40p per mile plus PARKING CHARGES.

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Well common sense prevailed. Had to wait around at the courts for 6 hours whilst the judge got through the other 5 cases brought by ANPR. What a bunch of jokers these people are, very unprofessional and know very little about the law. I think the highlight of listening to them stumble their way through trying to make a case against me was when their 'legal' representative tried to quote another case similar to mine.... 'Its like that other case, you know the one, o whats its called - you will know better than me your honour what was it called again?' - Brilliant preparation! They also produced a document that had quite clearly been forged as the date on it proceeded their contract by 7 years. They called me by the wrong name throughout, the judge 'Your Honour' a number of times, constantly repeated their points, didn't listen properly to responses from the judge and this went on and on for 50 minutes.

As the hearing went so well and I was feeling brave, I pulled out my invoice and counter claimed - their faces were a picture! Their representative then tried to claim they had made every effort to resolve and I had been rude and abusive on the telephone. The judge awarded loss of earnings and travel costs.



Overall on the day they lost more than they collected so it is no wonder this is the best legal representation they can afford.



I would like to thank everybody who replied to my posts, without your advice I don't think the day would have gone so smoothly.


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Parking Lie fail again and again! Surely the legal track will mark their future claims as vexatious?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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If you can tell us what the judge said about their claim or your defence that would help others in a similar situation. from my comfy chair it is nice and simple, they had no locus standi and cant tell you how to park in yoour own space but the judge may ahve used a different point of law so please let us know if you can.

By the way, well done for your resolve and deserved vindication, most people give up when they get the court papers and many of those who do fight just dont seek the proper advice and use the correct arguments before they have their day. As you see, this is not about you, it is about contracts and they are considered the same between giant corporations with millions spent on lawyers and individuals who are offered a suspect advertisement as unilateral contract law.

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As DragonFly1967 said previously, my tenancy agreement trumped their contract. They argued a point that stated I had to follow guidelines set out by landlord which would be provided to me in writing. They couldn't get that this statement in my tenancy agreement was not the rules in writing. It was comical watching them make fools of themselves trying to argue this (hard to explain on a post, probably had to be there). They then tried to say the text on the permit covered this. The judge dismissed badly worded text on the back of a scrap of cardboard and said it does not stand up against a binding contract between landlord and tenant.

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