Community Payback and my paid work

[billathome65]

Ok due to a recent court issue I have been ordered to do unpaid work although I work Sunday to Wednesday on nights finishing at 7am Thursday mornings. I also look after my two grandkids on a Friday I so was instructed to do the work on a Thursday with the instruction to be there by 8.30am working to 4.00pm then have to travel back through a busy town centre after not having any sleep for over 24 hours? This is not only dangerous I am certain that it breaches health and safety and the working time directive? ( I would need to drive in order to be there on time )

 

I am also aware that the unpaid work cannot encroach on my paid employment however should I injure myself this may affect my ability to earn and jepordise my job so how do I go about suing for any loss of wage due to injury? ( which I would be intent on doing )

 

Also when asked if I had any ailments they need to be aware of I explained that my wife feels I may have a issue with my heart I also explained that I have arthritis and an ongoing back problem that has resulted previously in time off work however as I do not have faith in doctors none of the problems have been confirmed by a GP as such the probation officer neglected to note these possible issues which in turn will result in a incomplete risk assessment being carried out so making them negligent in their duty of care as I understand it.

 

Obviously a judge has imposed the community payback on top of other stuff which I won't go into as it is not relevant and my solicitor felt the sentence was totally disproportionate anyway but if I'm being expected to do this unpaid work I must also have rights for redress if the probation service fail to act correctly? As they are aware that I will have worked the night before but failed to address that and as it is not my place to correct their failings I would assume I would have a case to sue for neglect of duty?

 

Please do not be swayed by the reason for the post just advice on the above would be welcomed

 

Cheers

[citizenB]

Also when asked if I had any ailments they need to be aware of I explained that my wife feels I may have a issue with my heart I also explained that I have arthritis and an ongoing back problem that has resulted previously in time off work however as I do not have faith in doctors none of the problems have been confirmed by a GP as such the probation officer neglected to note these possible issues which in turn will result in a incomplete risk assessment being carried out so making them negligent in their duty of care as I understand it.

 

I would think that they might require a GP note rather than your wife's "feelings" in respect of your heart.

 

Perhaps it might be a good idea to take yourself off for a proper check up.

[billathome65]

I went once about my heart to be insulted with oh that's common it's called fluttery heart syndrome ????? thats a medical term LOL what rubbish. I get pains and have difficulty breathing but my view is when its my time then hey. The same surgery told my nephew he had a chest infection he died 3 weeks later from infection caused by an undiagnosed collapsed lung and the GP was cleared of negligence so I have no faith in the GP profession. However I do agree with your statement but why ask if they are not going to record it ? Yet that only addresses one part of the post.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Surely if you think you have a heart problem that may affect you that badly, you have informed the dvla and handed your licence back so you cant drive anyway?

 

What is the back problem? Diagnosed or just a sore back?

 

I'm sorry to hear about your nephew. Medical diagnosis however is a very tricky business and cant always be relied upon unfortunately. That's not the fault of a doctor, that just the problem with practicing medicine.

 

You can get public transport to get to the unpaid work. You don't have to drive there.

 

Unfortunately, claiming to have a bad back/heart issues/arthritis without proof that they will affect your daily work wont get you off unpaid work.

 

Can you not ask yo be excused from unpaid work and maybe ask for jail time for 7 days instead as you have issues that mean you cant complete unpaid work? What is it you would do instead if they say you cant do unpaid work?

 

I don't see an issue with working times. Soldiers routinely work 24 or 48 hours without sleep even when not on operations. You have been given unpaid work as the result of a court conviction, its a punishment.

 

You look after you grandkids on a Friday so cant do it then? How about you or your children put the grandkids into childcare for that day and do it then?

 

Its up to the risk assessor as yo what risks are acceptable at the end of the day. If you are not happy, do not work. Explain to the judge why you cant work and see if he/she accepts your reasons. Not much else I can see you being able to do.

[billathome65]

It would be 28 days jail not 7 so no job and loss of house as I could not pay the morgage. I'm not interested in the medical side just don't know why they ask if they don't record but hey ho.

 

As for working I just want to know what legal obligations for my safety they have as if I do get injured and it affects my paid job or I loose pay I would be looking to sue as I would expect that there are policies in place to protect?

 

As for nursery my daughter already pays what she can and cant afford to pay more so that's why I look after them as my wife works to and public transport would not get me there on time so it's not an option.

 

Anyway I'm only interested in my legal recourse should I sustain injury everything else is relevant to me. If that can't be answered here then I am in the wrong place but thought I'd ask.

 

Cheers anyway

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

What is the unpaid work?

[ScarletPimpernel]

I would have though that the agency supervising the unpaid work will have the same obligations as any other employer for health and safety, just as you will have the same obligations as an 'employee'.

 

The reason the Probation Service didn't record anything about your health is not neglect, it's that medical issues need to be properly diagnosed and recorded by a medical practitioner. Otherwise, criminals would be trying to get out of unpaid work by feigning illness and/or injury.

[Ganymede]

I'm only interested in my legal recourse should I sustain injury

 

What injury? Falling asleep at the wheel and crashing because you're tired?

[goodatresearch]

As someone who worked 12 hour night shifts as a nurse many years ago, I understand why the poster is complaining. Nobody should have to continue to work after a work shift and I don't care if its supposed to be a punishment. If they did this to prisoners the human rights lawyers would be up in arms and quite rightly so. He isn't in the army in a war zone for gods sake.

 

What about the working time directive and health and safety laws? Perhaps the poster should contact the solicitors who represented him and ask their opinion.

[stevemLS]

As far as I remember, the offender has to consent to the making of a community order (with the alternative being custody, not surprisingly most do), so when did OP think they were going to do it given that they have an "excuse" for every available hour.

 

As others have rightly said, the Probation Service will not take account of self or undiagnosed conditions.

[goodatresearch]

The PS have to take into account work patterns. Arranging it directly after a night shift is NOT taking account of his work patterns. Anyway he's not making an excuse for every available hour is he. They could arrange it for Thursday evening after he'd had a sleep, Friday evening when his daughter had picked the kids up, any time Saturday, or Sunday morning.

 

They also have to take into account health and safety. They do not appear to be doing so. Iv stopped up all day after a night shift and its made me ill and quite frankly I couldn't function. Who evers arranged this has obviously never worked nights. Of course he could always just accept it, become ill and stay off work and eventually get the sack and go on benefits. Wouldn't that be just dandy.

 

 

As far as I remember, the offender has to consent to the making of a community order (with the alternative being custody, not surprisingly most do), so when did OP think they were going to do it given that they have an "excuse" for every available hour.

 

As others have rightly said, the Probation Service will not take account of self or undiagnosed conditions.

[stevemLS]

My apologies, I though an excuse had been offered for weekends.

[billathome65]

Hi, sorry for the delay in posting. I can understand people stating that it's a punishment and it was down to me to accept or refuse the unpaid work.

 

However the choice was removed by the threat of prison and as I can ill afford that option I am forced to comply.

 

I did go to my first community payback two weeks ago and when they discovered that I had worked the night before I was sent home as they quite rightly went by the health and safety and work time directive so it does apply even though their is a punishment side.

 

I was expecting the PS to change my days to a Friday not ideal, but I had resigned myself to the fact. However instead they transferred me to a PS closer to home where it would appear that they have neglected to pass on the fact that I work Wednesday nights as this PS have instructed that I must work every Thursday.

 

Now as far as I am concerned they have been notified once and taken action. However as they have failed to pass that over to the new PS it is in my opinion their failing, as it is not my responsibility to do their job for them. It is souly down to their failings even though they try to push all accident responsibilities onto the client.

 

It would also appear that they are also working against a 1931 European agreement signed up to by our government relating to the barring of forced labor of prisoners and offenders through threat of punishment unless this is supervised by the state.

 

As the probation office has now been privatised offenders are no longer being state supervised as work is now for profit of a private entity and as such is in direct contravention to the 1931 agreement.

 

Whilst the TUC raised a challenge to this with the government, I have been unable to find out any information regarding outcomes and rulings so as far as I am aware at this moment this forced labor is illegal but as I have no resources to challenge this I can only address my current situation by using the probation services own failings to instigate a future claim. So advice on that would be welcomed?

 

Irrespective of any excuse I could have given I have to comply with their rulings The office I have been transferred to are closed on Fridays, so I can't do Fridays anyway and I certainly don't want to commit to Saturdays or Sunday morning Volunterally (Why should I help the system punishes me further for reacting in defense of my family? Regardless of if people feel my actions were wrong, I reacted to a current situation in the heat of the moment ( end of )

 

I think £200 comp to the ****** who caused this plus £165 costs on top of the 12 months suspended prison threat and plus the total disruption to my family and social life is more than enough irrespective of how others think.

 

They had me fixing pedal bikes up last week and I was told by the guy in charge to put my name forwards to be allowed to do that for the full 200 hours community work rather than be out digging etc so lets hope they agree to this request.

 

This is not about what punishment I was given I have to work by their rules so they should be held accountable for any failings. Just because i'm being punished by the state don't mean they should be exempt from the same rules or am I wrong in expecting them to be held accountable to

 

Cheers Bill