Training Courses at Work ( PAYE employee ) -Do I need to pay for these ??

[Qhriss]

Hi Folks - Have been entered for an advanced tree felling course at my place of work , but my employer says if I leave in a certain period - I have to pay back the course . And wants me to sign a document to this effect .

 

Provision and Use of Work Equipments Regs says otherwise I believe and there is nothing about this in my Works contract - yr thoughts ........ Q

[Sidewinder]

How long does your employer intend to bind you to this condition? Are you intending to leave any time soon?

 

PUWER does indeed place responsibilities on the employer to ensure that workplace equipment is safe to use and that employees are correctly trained to use the equipment, but it does NOT indicate that any such training should be provided free of charge.

 

In your case, he employer is effectively seeking to amend your contract with an additional clause relating to the clawback of training costs. This in itself is not unusual, nor is it unlawful -if you are not considered safe or adequately trained then what use would you be in your role?

 

A quick Google search suggests that course fees might be in the region of £600-£700. If you are only to be bound for a relatively short period of time then this might be reasonable, but if the employer is looking to use the cost to tie you into staying for, say, 5 years then that might well be unfair and the employer would have recouped any training investment in that time.

 

Perhaps you could negotiate a reduction in any repayment on a sliding scale over time? Say 100% in the first year, 50% in the first 2 years and thereafter nothing can be clawed back?

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Yes, I have seen plenty of these, usually over two years and on a sliding scale for repayment if you leave. The problem is so many people join just to do the courses and then leave for other jobs or to start their own business. Your employer has to protect himself.

[Atlas01]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/provide.htm

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg449.pdf

 

H&S training must not be charged to employees according to the HSE

 

I would raise this as an illegal term of a contract if you signed a clawback clause.

 

If they deem it necessary for you to be trained via a risk assessment to this level i'd resist, be careful it isn't put forward as additional development and not safety critical to the role.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/provide.htm

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg449.pdf

 

H&S training must not be charged to employees according to the HSE

 

I would raise this as an illegal term of a contract if you signed a clawback clause.

 

If they deem it necessary for you to be trained via a risk assessment to this level i'd resist, be careful it isn't put forward as additional development and not safety critical to the role.

 

Its not a hse course. Its an advanced qualification.

[Atlas01]

The HSE don't run courses, read what i wrote again

[ericsbrother]

Is it necessary for you to do your job? If not you have to decide whether you want to gain an advancement or not.

[Sidewinder]

There is a clear distinction between training which is required to enable you to perform your role, or to conform to new legislation, and additional or advanced training which provides skills over and above your current function and which might prove attractive to another employer.

 

The 'Advanced' part suggests that your employer is keen for you to take on additional responsibilities - might this not introduce the possibility of additional pay?

 

What would be the consequence of you not wishing to become an 'advanced' tree feller? Has the employer indicated that you might be shown the door without taking the additional training? That would be a different matter altogether.

[Qhriss]

Cheers Guys !! Yup sliding scale of repayment ( 18 months ) I qualified as Arboricultural Technician two yrs ago out of my own pocket, at abt £3500 quids worth ! An am already a highly skilled tree feller who has done loads of big tree / hazard tree felling so this course is basically paper-accreditation not career advancement . I just feel that if anything untoward happend ( Like a serious illness ) I'd be lumped with this repayment on a course I haven't realy needed .

[Qhriss]

( Also -have just donated to this fine site ! )

[honeybee13]

Thank you very much for the donation. It will help CAG to continue helping people who need us.

 

HB

[Pusillanimous]

This is a quite normal clause. Do your advanced course, stay the two years and then nothing's due.

 

If you find a better job earlier, £600 is not too much to lose (it'll be pro-rated, anyway, depending on when).

[Qhriss]

Well- I feel it is a bit poor practise , and am not going forward with their request - they can stump up or not - In other news I was assaulted at work by a work colleague , so now things are getting ever interesting and I'm sure I will be spending more time on this site !!