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Betterware claimform - hidden Co-Ordinators deductions?


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Last year I worked for a while as a Betterware Co-ordinator (Area Manager) servicing several local Distributors. You are self employed in this role.

 

I was given a "running account" for sales orders and monies received on behalf of the company.

Within a very short while this running account gradually fell more and more into the red and I couldn't figure out why at first,

 

 

I looked very closely at what was going on, not made any easier by the fact that there was always a 2 - 3 week gap

between orders placed and banking the money collected from Distributors.

 

 

The Regional Manager did not seem at all concerned by this, in fact he didn't bother to carry out an end of year audit with me.

 

I found that the company was deducting 20% off the value of all goods returned to them,

which of course added hugely to the debt that was accruing on my running account.

 

 

The company says that the deduction is made "to recoup commissions paid on the returned items".

Just a minute, if the customer decides not to purchase then no money has changed hands - no commission paid.

If the customer wants a refund, they are refunded in FULL.

If the item is faulty and an exchange given, no money changes hands - no commission paid.

The Distributor gets a FULL credit on all returned items too by the Co-ordinator, yet the Co-ordinator has 20% swiped off them by the company!

 

In addition, goods ordered and not received were also being charged to this account,

despite the claim forms being sent in and almost 200 pounds worth of credits is missing off the account,

plus other items could not be credited because the part number was either a substitute item or deleted from the computer.

 

Once I had learned what was going on I resigned.

The Regional Manager was obliged to carry out another audit on my leaving and again this was not done.

 

 

Shortly afterwards I received a demand for some 800 odd pounds which shocked me, I challenged the debt.

According to Betterware, their computer and accounting system is flawless and they even asked if I would care to discuss the issue with their programming team,

otherwise I should pay up immediately in full.

 

Shortly afterwards I received a County Court summons and an offer of mediation.

Betterware were totally intransigent and I merely wanted to discuss the ACTUAL debt owed.

 

I contacted Citizen's Advice who said the Betterware were committing a "criminal act" under unfair trading regulations so have referred it on to Trading Standards.

I have heard nothing from either since.

 

The adjourned court case is scheduled for the 29th April

I am at a loss whether or not Betterware are breaking the law with their malpractices regarding the commission deductions.

 

 

If they are, then my understanding is they cannot lay claim to a debt accrued illegally and not therefore recoverable in law.

 

Any words of wisdom please?

Edited by awkwardbydesign2
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Have they submitted a response to your defence as to how they have assessed the amount they are claiming ?

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2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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As a claim has been issued against you, I have moved you to the Financial legal issue forums.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thread moved to General Legal Issues.

We could do with some help from you.

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Have they submitted a response to your defence as to how they have assessed the amount they are claiming ?

 

No, they have sent a bundle containing a complete print-out of the account,

very blurred copies of the Co-ordinator's agreement

and the correspondence emails between them and myself,

including a "without prejudice" letter I sent to them via email

offering to negotiate a settlement, which they have not responded to at all save showing to the court.

 

 

In fact, they have made NO attempt whatsoever to investigate any of my claims

because they say their finance and computer systems are infallible.

Dream on.

 

They also operate an unlicensed insurance waiver scheme which has been reported to the FCA.

 

My instincts tell me this is a very well trodden path they are on

and they are very much used to bullying tactics to gain a judgement.

 

I have informed them three times now in writing I have no money to pay them

and what little I do earn from part time work should by rights be protected as essential living expenses.

That matters not either to them.

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I changed computers near the end of my period with them so all my "evidence" is no longer accessible anyway because the computer is completely u/s.

However, I have the weekly sales orders and receipts in printed form.

 

If they could be bothered, they could check my weekly cash and product returns statements to see if they match their computer records - which they won't.

 

The real issue I would like a definite answer to is this:

 

Under the distance selling rules they must refund a customer 100% whatever the reason might be.

 

The Distributors get a FULL credit of the good's values from the Co-ordinator on any returned goods, whatever the reason might be.

 

So WHY is it that Co-ordinators alone are having 20% value deducted on all returned goods?

 

It is this that has accrued the overwhelming amount of debt on my "running account" plus the missing products not supplied yet still charged for on the account.

If the missing products value was deducted from the account and the (illegal?) 20% deductions on returns credited, the outstanding balance would fall to near zero.

 

Anything else is a side issue as far as I am concerned.

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I changed computers near the end of my period with them so all my "evidence" is no longer accessible anyway because the computer is completely u/s. However, I have the weekly sales orders and receipts in printed form.

 

If they could be bothered, they could check my weekly cash and product returns statements to see if they match their computer records - which they won't.

 

The real issue I would like a definite answer to is this:

 

Under the distance selling rules they must refund a customer 100% whatever the reason might be.

 

The Distributors get a FULL credit of the good's values from the Co-ordinator on any returned goods, whatever the reason might be.

 

So WHY is it that Co-ordinators alone are having 20% value deducted on all returned goods?

 

It is this that has accrued the overwhelming amount of debt on my "running account" plus the missing products not supplied yet still charged for on the account. If the missing products value was deducted from the account and the (illegal?) 20% deductions on returns credited, the outstanding balance would fall to near zero.

 

Anything else is a side issue as far as I am concerned.

 

EVERYTHING you have written here is mush.

 

DID you enter a DEFENCE?

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Oddly enough, my defence has already been done for me in the bundle they have submitted,

because they admit making deductions in those documents.

And no, I cannot afford to have reams of copies to submit to the court.

I cannot even afford an envelope and stamp at the moment.

Will have to borrow money just to go to court.

 

Now, can anyone supply me with a definitive answer to my question please?

If, as I suspect what they are doing with regards to deductions for all returned goods is illegal,

then their application should be struck out anyway.

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I shall try once more (and only once) to help you.

 

Whatever your question is, matters not a JOT if you haven't followered court proceedures.

 

They issue court papers, either via local court ot MCOL.

 

You receive the paperwork and have 14 days to respond, If you acknowledge, you can admit, admit part or defend all. Defending all, gives you a further 14 days, so normally 33 days to respond from Date of service.

 

Did this happen? Did you defend in full? Did you SEND in a defence? (In time)

 

If you did as above, you would have received an AQ, did this happen? Did you fill it in and post back to courts?

 

If so, you would then get a court date at your local court, you suggest you have a court date, so I assume this has all happed!

 

Without their POC or how you responded, we cannot help you.

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Yes I did file a defence in response to the summons, returned in time.

There has been no reply at all from them regarding the defence,

save the bundle of email correspondence between us (in which I set out my dispute in full to them)

and a computer printout of the account which is not easily decipherable as it's all numbers.

 

Sorry but don't know what an "aq" is, or for that matter a "POC" is either. The links are not explanatory.

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right so whats the date on the claimform - top right please

 

 

and what is the status of the claim if you log into MCOL and check?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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right so whats the date on the claimform - top right please

 

 

and what is the status of the claim if you log into MCOL and check?

 

 

dx

 

The date on the claim form is 18th November 2014. The hearing was due to be held on the 4th March but at the last minute was postponed until the 29th April.

 

I went to the MCOL website and entered the Claim Number and the password but either or both was not being recognised, so could go no further unfortunately

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The date on the claim form is 18th November 2014. The hearing was due to be held on the 4th March but at the last minute was postponed until the 29th April.

 

I went to the MCOL website and entered the Claim Number and the password but either or both was not being recognised, so could go no further unfortunately

 

I think access to the MCOL claim page is removed once a claim has been allocated to a court.

 

You can actually telephone MCOL and ask them the status.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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