Boat migrant deaths

[unclebulgaria67]

Almost everyday on the news there is a story of more deaths in the med, when migrants from north African have tried to flee to Europe.

 

What is the UN and African Union doing about this ? Surely they need to be doing more, so that people don't feel the need to flee their countries.

[unclebulgaria67]

Apparently the answer to the problem is to have more ships in the med to carry out surveillance and rescue if needed. Also to go after the boat operators who are charging E1000 to take people across the med.

 

Yes, but at some point they are going to have to deal with problems in North Africa or risk it getting worse, until it becomes a greater security risk to Europe. ISIL have said that they want to extend their bases across into different countries and they appear to be linking up with other terrorist groups. Since the last Iraq war the US and others are reluctant to become involved beyond using some air power including drones.

[JoeyJoeC]

I've heard people say that they are trying to get to the UK because their lives are in danger where they are from. But why go all the way to the UK, when there are plenty of other places to stop?

[unclebulgaria67]

I've heard people say that they are trying to get to the UK because their lives are in danger where they are from. But why go all the way to the UK, when there are plenty of other places to stop?

 

3 reasons

 

1) They may speak English

2) UK has a good reputation for fair treatment of people

3) Foreign aid sent to these countries has a British flag on it, with a notice saying , donated by the United Kingdom.

 

If the speak French, they will probably stay in France. I believe France had had more migration than the UK. The UK is protected because it is an Island and difficult to get into. If it were attached to France with an open border , then the problem would be far worse. We would have milllions of refugees to deal with.

 

The problem needs to be dealt with at its source, otherwise it is just going to get worse. This needs to be resolved by the international community getting together. China have massive investments in Africa and perhaps they would want to make it more secure. Can they provide money to boost the different countries security ?

 

I cannot remember the world being as fractured as it is at the moment. The G20 leaders meeting is due to be held in Turkey in November this year, but I wonder whether it will go ahead, given the problems in the area.

[citizenB]

This definitely needs dealing with at source. This country cannot sustain much more immigration.

[caro]

I've heard people say that they are trying to get to the UK because their lives are in danger where they are from. But why go all the way to the UK, when there are plenty of other places to stop?

 

How do these people know they aren't stopping in other places?

 

I hope they are never so desperate that they'd rather risk their lives than stay in their own homes.

[unclebulgaria67]

How do these people know they aren't stopping in other places?

 

I hope they are never so desperate that they'd rather risk their lives than stay in their own homes.

 

Visit the Daily Mail article where Tony Abbott Aussie PM says that they should be stopped getting onto land in Europe. The top comments agree with this, which I think shows how some people really don't care about these people or don't understand why they want to leave North Africa.

 

These people are desperate, as they face threats to their families. It is not purely an issue of economic migration.

 

They need to deal with the issues at source and this means helping countries armed forces in the region kick out the terrorists, so they can provide some security. I noticed on a recent TV programme where someone tracked the Nile, that in parts of Egypt they have problems with rebel forces. It was the same in other countries on the route and it did not look very stable in many areas. The amount of weaponary that is held by these militias/rebels is frightening.

[unclebulgaria67]

On the news this morning they showed loads of migrants in Libya, who had come up from sub Saharan Africa where they were saying that they could not live, because no money, no foods, violence etc. Reminded me of the speeches that were made by world leaders in the last 20 years about globalisation and how this would help lift people from poverty. Some of them still believe it. What has actually happened is that countries outside of Africa have looked to exploit any mineral resources and the money has not found its way in the pockets of ordinary people. China in particular employs a lot of Chinese workers, who have moved out to Africa for the work. Globalisation can only work, if these countries receive help to set up their own companies and to train their own people or for foreign companies to be required to employ local people.

[caro]

I don't understand the reasons behind it all, but I don't think people should be allowed to die if we can prevent it, which is why I signed this. I hope others might like to as well.

 

 

http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/restart-the-rescue?sourcecode=P15001008&utm_campaign=restartrescue&utm_medium=paidsocial&utm_source=fbprtr201504

[unclebulgaria67]

The number of migrants trying to cross the med is now thousands per day. The Italian officials are having to deal with huge numbers of people who have been travelling for weeks from across north Africa. Not all the migrants are alive when the boats get to European shores.

 

Something has got to be done about this. It is not fair on the migrants and not fair on Italy/Greece in having to deal with it. The United Nations should be taking a leading role in dealing with this. How many migrants are on route ? Where are they coming from ? What are the countries of origin doing about this ? What is happening in Libya to stop the boats being filled with people ?

[citizenB]

If there are now so many migrants, perhaps we should stop providing aid to those countries they are coming from !

[Guest]

some recent info

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32695483

[unclebulgaria67]

some recent info

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32695483

 

They have problems in Asia as well. There are 2,000 people on boats off Indonesia, who were trying to get to Malaysia. I believe Malaysia has seen more than 2,000 arrive so far, coming from Bangladesh and Burma.

 

This is a worldwide issue and it is going to get worse. Some of these very poor countries have seen a birth explosion in recent years and when you divide not very much money between even more people, those that can do so will try to migrate. I don't blame them. What parent is going to risk taking children on a migration trip, unless they really think it is worth the risk, due to poor conditions in their home country.

 

World economics in terms of money supply is not enough to satisfy the needs of the amount of people on the planet. It has always been difficult, but as these poorer countries develop a little, then they need significant investment to cater for growing populations. The wealthy in some of these countries tend to move abroad when they can, to take advantage of better healthcare, private education for their kids, better security, perhaps nicer a country to reside and they can lose interest in investing in their home country. When you look at London, it has attracted the wealthy from around the world.

[Guest]

was a bit surprised to see the asylum figures stated therein. thought, it wld've been higher for the uk in cf.

[unclebulgaria67]

was a bit surprised to see the asylum figures stated therein. thought, it wld've been higher for the uk in cf.

 

Perhaps the UK putting some asylum seekers into a prison does put some off. Search for Yarls Wood immigration centre.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/yarls-wood-undercover-tour-of-detention-centre-with-dreadful-reputation-for-its-treatment-of-asylum-seekers-9863842.html

 

These days due to the internet, some of these asylum seekers will have seen the way that some have been treated by the UK. And then there is the English channel making it much more difficult to get in.

[citizenB]

What is the answer, then Uncle B ?

[unclebulgaria67]

What is the answer, then Uncle B ?

 

That is a difficult one to answer. But first of all, you have to accept that migrations have always happened and will continue to happen. People will find a way to travel, whether there are these smuggling boats available or not. It would almost be impossible to stop boats leaving Libya or any other country in that region. You can put patrol boats in the area, but it would be very costly to do 24/7 for months on end and might not stop boats getting through to Europe.

 

Ideally you would want to deal with migration at source, but that is going to take a very long time and where do you start. It could mean armed forces on the ground assisting countries security forces and also hundreds of billion needing to be spent on infrastructure e.g water supplies, basic living requirements.

 

Greece is having major financial problems. Offer them an incentive to take in migrants in a managed process. Set up facilities in Greece as a reception for migrants who want to come to Europe. This may cause more people to travel and may make the situation worse. But it may be worth a try for a short period. Allow the boats to come across safely and give Greece the resources. Perhaps some of these people will settle permanently in Greece and help improve the Greek economy.

 

No easy answers, but perhaps a mixture of the above.

[san_d]

This definitely needs dealing with at source. This country cannot sustain much more immigration.

How? Do you want to shoot at the boats?

[citizenB]

This definitely needs dealing with at source. This country cannot sustain much more immigration.

 

How? Do you want to shoot at the boats?

 

Italy has suggested putting a UN peace keeping team / targeting the traffickers. I cant see why this cant be done.

 

At the same time, perhaps all the charities that are jumping up and down could then have a presence - they could ensure that the assistance, both financial and medical could be targeted where needed. Help build the wells etc - help people to help themselves in their own country.

[unclebulgaria67]

Italy has suggested putting a UN peace keeping team / targeting the traffickers. I cant see why this cant be done.

 

At the same time, perhaps all the charities that are jumping up and down could then have a presence - they could ensure that the assistance, both financial and medical could be targeted where needed. Help build the wells etc - help people to help themselves in their own country.

 

There are tens of thousands of migrants on route. New people arrive every day looking for boats.

[Guest]

seems it has to be dealt with at source. one of the probs seems to be that some of these countries have been suddenly destabilised by 'us' etc (for whatever reason) without any after thought (eg iraq, libya, etc), and being left to struggle with continued violence for power, also by xyz extreme this or that. so, most leaving such countries may have a valid ground for asylum.

there was one leading commentator who said (roundabouts) that certain countries had, in the past, 'benefited' from such countries in trouble, and now it is about time that more help was given to sort things out, getting rid of xyz, etc. but, so much politics involved. and they, also have to contribute to helping themselves.

difficult one.

[unclebulgaria67]

seems it has to be dealt with at source. one of the probs seems to be that some of these countries have been suddenly destabilised by 'us' without any after thought (eg iraq, libya, etc), and being left to struggle with continued violence for power, also by xyz extreme this or that. so, most leaving such countries may have a valid ground for asylum.

there was one leading commentator who said (roundabouts) that certain countries had, in the past, 'benefited' from such countries in trouble, and now it is about time that more help was given to sort things out, getting rid of xyz, etc. but, so much politics involved. and they, also have to contribute to helping themselves.

difficult one.

 

Many migrants are coming from sub Saharan Africa, where UK/US etc have not been recently involved. Some of it is due to parts of countries being taken over by rebel forces or terrorists.

 

Dealing with it at source is covering a vast territory.

[Guest]

Many migrants are coming from sub Saharan Africa, where UK/US etc have not been recently involved. Some of it is due to parts of countries being taken over by rebel forces or terrorists.

 

Dealing with it at source is covering a vast territory.

 

thats partly what i meant re xyz...

 

it is vast, but something needs to be done to help resolve. imo. but, there are so many politics involved. where to start...oil interests re displacement of people (darfur for eg), extremists, power hungers, asian influence, colonial history, african union, ...etc etc

[unclebulgaria67]

thats partly what i meant re xyz...

 

it is vast, but needs to be done to resolve. imo. but, there are so many politics involved. where to start...oil interests re displacement of people (darfour for eg), extremists, power hungers, asian influence, colonial history, african union, ...etc etc

 

Not sure UK government and others are thinking clearly if they think they can just return people to the country of origin or some North African refugee camp so they can be assessed. These people are desperate because some will have gone through years of suffering and they will not be easily taken to somewhere where they don't want to go.

[determindator]

The news is they are talking of returning the migrants. The news report doesn't set out if this means from the Italian area or a general sweeping statement including the UK. I can only see a convoy of military ships in between Europe and the African peninsular which could possibly do this. I don't know their plans for returning migrants but will be on news tday.