Please can someone advise me. Unacceptable building work.

[Mellanie123]

Two years ago we had a building company do some work for us on the conservatory, the company have a good reputation and are certainly not cheap.

 

The work should have taken no more than a few days to complete.

 

We were promised skilled tradesmen and good quality materials and we received neither.

 

It was very clear to see the work was bodged and not as described, materials used were inappropriate not as described did not fit and were incorrectly installed.

 

I complained many times but was ignored and told the work had been done to a high standard and the quality of materials could not be disputed

 

, they said it had been done to the same standard that they give to all their customers

 

. I then had to pay a chartered surveyor to give me a report, he stated he was surprised that this company had done the work as he had regularly recommended them in the past having seen good work done on OTHER projects, he said he hoped they realised they could risk their reputation doing work like this, work was in need of refurbishment and the expectation was many elements would need total replacement.

 

Since the survey was done in 2013 many other faults have been discovered that they will not address. This company performed illegal gas work leaving us with a carbon monoxide leak ,

 

we reported them to Gas Safe register who sent out an inspector who then reported them to The Health and Safety Executive.

 

The company sent out a subcontractor to do work on the gas flue , this contractor was sent back three times by Gas Safe Register for defects to be corrected.

 

He also installed an incorrect gas flue and refused to change it so once again Gas Safe Inspectors came back and sent him a defect notice to return to replace it.

 

I have written to this company asking them to return to complete this job to a satisfactory standard and to rectify all faults found with their work.

 

Last June they offered to return to put some of the work right but not all of it.

 

I wrote back and told them there was no point in only coming back to do some of the work leaving me in a position of having to pay another contractor to rectify their work.

 

Their response to this was to send me the bill and demanded full payment for these works carried out, much of the work is in need of rectification and materials need to be replaced.

 

They said if the bill was not paid £6,300 they would start court proceedings.

 

We offered to pay half and the remaining balance when all works were rectified and completed to a satisfactory standard.

 

They refused this and are not returning but want full payment for this bodged job that is a breach of contract

 

. Their debt collector has sent us five demanding letters, if we don't pay they will take us to court and their solicitor has sent us one too.

 

The last letter from the debt collector stated this company would be willing to take a reduction of £1,500 to resolve the matter. This would resolve it for them to just walk away with £4.800 and leave us in this mess of having to pay another builder to redo this appalling work and replace many of the materials including the conservatory roof and lead work, the leadwork was described as shocking by a surveyor

Edited April 17, 2015 by maroondevo52
formatting

[snowdragon]

Hi I am sure someone will be along to help you soon but I will flag this up so it can be seen, Welcome to CAG XX

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

I have moved this thread to a more appropriate Forum, hopefully you will get some advice shortly.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

[slick132]

Hi Mellanie,

 

The report from your surveyor will support your claim that works were not carried out to adequate standards.

 

Have you obtained 2 or 3 quotes from other firms to remedy the errors left by the 1st company. This would tell you the amount you could reasonably withhold from the 1st company, to cover the remedial work.

 

The surveyors report and quotes for remedial work would form part of your defence, should the 1st builders take you to court.

 

Have you paid the 1st firm anything yet.

 

[Mellanie123]

Hi I am sure someone will be along to help you soon but I will flag this up so it can be seen, Welcome to CAG XX

Thanks very much.

[Mellanie123]

Hi Mellanie,

 

The report from your surveyor will support your claim that works were not carried out to adequate standards.

 

Have you obtained 2 or 3 quotes from other firms to remedy the errors left by the 1st company. This would tell you the amount you could reasonably withhold from the 1st company, to cover the remedial work.

 

The surveyors report and quotes for remedial work would form part of your defence, should the 1st builders take you to court.

 

Have you paid the 1st firm anything yet.

 

No I haven't paid anything yet, the agreement at the start of the job was payment on completion.

 

I have offered to pay half now and the remaining amount when all the necessary works are done to complete the job to a satisfactory standard. They have refused this and are not returning but want full payment for "works carried out " otherwise court action and I will be liable for all their legal fees.

 

The "works carried out " are substandard in need of refurbishment, expectation is many elements will need total replacement including the roof.

 

They have breached their contract with both the work and materials used.

 

They have also done work on a gas flue without being Gas Safe Registered and they did it incorrectly leaving us with a carbon monoxide leak.

 

They have ignored númerouse letters and twice made me wait four months for a reply, this has now dragged on for nearly two years.

 

They have charged me for work that was not possible to carry out and they will make no reduction for this.

 

I have had a couple of quotes to redo the work and it will cost more than their quote.

Edited April 18, 2015 by slick132
PLEASE use spacing so folk can read your posts easily

[slick132]

I have added spacing to your post. Please use paragraphs to avoid solid text blocks. Otherwise, folk may not bother to wade through it.

 

I assume you have told Bldr #1 that you will get the remedial work done and deduct the cost from what, if any, you pay to them. If so, I think you should proceed, simply writing to them to confirm the remedial works will be started shortly and the costs of this will be deducted from what you will pay to them in due course.

 

If you have NOT told this to Bldr #1, do so now.

 

[steampowered]

If the rectification works will cost more than the original work, I would begin sending them a letter asking them to pay the excess - stating that they are in breach of contract after breaching the implied duty that the work would be carried out with reasonable care and skill; and that you intend to bring court proceedings to recover the amount you have to pay to get this fixed unless they fix it.

 

If you want to achieve a decent settlement you need to be a bit aggressive. I think you need to respond to the debt collector and solicitor letters along those lines.

[Mellanie123]

Thank you both for the reply. I am still waiting to hear back from the debt collector from six weeks ago. I have replied to the six demands and have told them I will be defending the case and counter claiming for my losses to date through their breach of contract and for the cost of getting another contractor to redo this work to a satisfactory standard.

The letter from their solicitor said they would not be putting forward any proposal for mediation or arbitration as they don't believe they have done anything wrong.

 

This all started in 2012 when we had the conservatory installed. The company did such a bodged job we were fortunate enough to get a refund under section 75 of the credit card act. We were silly enough to pay up front that time too with the promise of a ten per cent reduction.

 

Their subcontractor did a terrible job of the groundwork but we paid him separately by cheque so had no comeback.

The electrician that put in the wall lights and power points did a dangerous job and the NEIC sent him back to correct his work.

 

This is where this company that we are in dispute with now came in. In 2013 after receiving the refund from the credit card company, we chose this local company that are not cheap but had a good reputation to rectify the previous company's work . It was in need of remedial work and a new roof.

 

The work this company and both of their sub contractors did was as bad if not worse than the previous company. They denied this so had to get a report done. The surveyor said he hoped they realised they risked their reputation by doing work like this and was surprised to hear this company's name associated with work done like this.

 

I sent them the report, a month later the boss came with his subcontractor, he told me I had two choices.. I could keep it as it is or they would send the two same men back to redo the work again but they would give me no guarantee on their work, any damage done was at my own risk and my only option was to refuse them entry. I said I wanted skilled men next time and he refused telling me they were at liberty to send whoever they wanted, that was the deal take it or leave it.

 

I have had three separate visits from Gas Safe registered inspectors regarding the gas flue that was extended. One was a complaint about this unregistered company doing unlawful gas work, doing it incorrectly and dangerously, and three times the inspector sent the subcontractor back for defects found with his work that needed to be corrected.. The subcontractor also installed the wrong flue kit and it needed to be changed, he refused to return to change it so the Inspector once more sent him back.

 

They came here to do remedial work and fit a new roof and have bodged everything. After all this time it is still in need of remedial work and a new roof....this is the second roof that doesn't fit and

are now in need of a third one.

 

I am concerned that if I do get another contractor in to redo the work and the company we are In dispute with takes me to court and I loose, I will end up having to pay them both.

 

It's waring me down now after all this time, it's been a nightmare. I think if I had a big burly man here to stand up to these bullies it would have been very different.

 

Thank you Slick for spacing my post out for me.

 

 

 

I

[slick132]

Hi again,

 

So I was wrong to refer to Bldr #1 - they are, in fact, Bldr #2.

 

It doesn't matter whether the debt collector has replied to you or not. You don't need them to reply.

 

But, as Steampowered said above, you need to be more pro-active and more aggressive if you are going to get this sorted properly.

 

Is your surveyor's report clear about the poor quality of the work, and the manner in which it fell below reasonable standards.

 

Does it refer to the failings about electrics, gas and the roof.

 

Can you give us a rough idea of what you paid Bldr #1, how much Bldr #2 expected and how much the current remedial work will cost.

[steampowered]

If you want to sort this quickly, I personally would proceed to get a quote for fixing the work, send them a letter before action withholding payment and asking them to pay the excess within 14 days, and after the 14 days proceed to bring to bring a claim against them. That is the quickest way of getting this resolved. If you wait for them to bring a claim that will cause additional delay.

[Mellanie123]

The first company charged £4,500 for the installation of the conservatory doors windows and roof. We got a refund for this (section 75)

First company's sub contractor £4000, we paid him seperately.

This company that we are in dispute with quoted £6,300 to do remedial work and replace conservatory roof. The windows and doors were able to be reused.

 

We had to get a report on the substandard work for the credit card company and it was this company we are in dispute with that did the report for it, their Dip Practice Surveyor did it.

When we received the refund we asked them for a quote to do the remedial work for us, we got three quotes, they were the dearest but we believed them to be a good firm so thought it would be worth paying the extra to get a good job done with the promise of highly skilled men using good quality materials.

The firms dip Practice Surveyor that did the report turned up to do some work and he was the man that did the unlawful gas work leaving a Co leak.

 

The last letter from the debt collector stated WITHOUT PREJUDICE their client would be willing to accept £4,800 instead of £6,300 as a final settlement. I said that would resolve the matter for them but not for me and that I would defend the case and counterclaim for the cost of having to get another contractor to rectify their work.

 

I am wondering if ii should get another report done. Since I had the report in 2013 other issues have become apparent, I have taken photos of everything.

I sent the Lead Sheet Association photos of the lead work and they have sent me some emails giving me their opinion on it and pointing out the faults too.

 

Thank you for your advise slink and steam powered. I know my posts don't make easy reading!!

I will take your advice and proceed with action, it's gone on far too long.

[slick132]

Hi Mel,

 

The firms dip Practice Surveyor that did the report turned up to do some work and he was the man that did the unlawful gas work leaving a Co leak.

 

I assume you mean a Carbon Monoxide leak but how or why did a Surveyor do any gas work ??

 

If the report that you've referred to was done by Builder #2 regarding Builder #1's original work, it will be of no use to you in your dispute with Builder #2.

 

You need to get a further report by an independent Chartered Surveyor to report on the work done by Bldr #2.

 

This report will :-

 

1. Form the basis of your case for withholding payment from Bldr #2

 

2. Confirm what further work needs doing by Bldr #3 to put matters right.

 

If Bldr #2's Debt Collector contacts you again, simply reply saying you are having a survey done to confirm what needs to be done next.

 

[Mellanie123]

Yes a carbon monoxide leak. This was done by the second firms Dip practice Surveyor, he came to do some of the work on the conservatory, he was incompetent and his work looks like a DIY job. He came to install the plastic paneling at the side of the conservatory above the window, the gas flue was extended through the side window of the conservatory so he dismantled the flue, made a hole through the paneling for the flue and reassembled it but did it incorrectly so the gas boiler fan was sucking in the fumes instead of blowing them out. We only discovered this that evening when the boiler stopped working. He did the report for the credit card company on the first company's work before we employed the company that he works for....although he doesn't work for them any more now.

 

We have had an independent Chartered surveyor come in 2013 to do a survey on the work of second company, the one we are in dispute with now. Much of the work was done by this man that was the second company's Dip practice surveyor. He also prices the jobs up for the firm and acts as a project manager. He did a report on the first company's work before we employed the firm he works for to do the remedial work .

 

 

It's just so confusing with all these builders and company's and two survey reports , unlawful gas report, three defect notices for the gas man, three different gas safe inspectors making three separate visits! the wrong gas flue used, the list goes on and on.

I don't know how I'm going to explain all this in a court! I could write pages of what's gone on with this conservatory.

I hope reading this hasn't made your head spin.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I don't claim to be an expert in any of this, but I do wonder why a surveyor is carrying out work. In my experience, they oversee or assess work done by other people. Does this guy have any qualifications to his name that you have seen on correspondence or his business cards?

 

Just a thought.

 

HB

[Mellanie123]

Hello, On all his correspondence under his name is Dip.SurvPrac

Contracts Surveyor.

The building firm we are in dispute with made out he was just a sub contractor when they were reported by Gas Safe to the HSE for unlawful gas work by an unregistered company. He wasn't a sub contractor he was an employee of this company, he had worked there for a few years, he was usually in the office and went out pricing the jobs up, ordering materials etc.

[honeybee13]

Having had a quick look on google, that looks like a Diploma in Surveying Practice, Mellanie.

 

HB

[Mellanie123]

Thank you Honeybee.

[slick132]

Hi Mel,

 

Ok, so you DO have a report by an independent Chtd Surveyor on the work by Bldr #2. But it's now perhaps 2 years old and you say other things have since come to light

 

So perhaps your best way forward is to ask that same Chtd Surveyor to come back and look at anything that has changed since the original report.

 

You can then get a new complete up-to-date report. If the Chtd Surveyor uses some of the old report, perhaps it could be done more cheaply than before - no harm in asking.

 

If it comes to you taking court action, you would reclaim the cost of this later Survey Fee anyway.

 

[Mellanie123]

Thank you for all your help and advise slick.

[Mellanie123]

Sorry for delay in posting. I was going to contact the surveyor to ask him to do an update on the old survey but have been told to "hold fire"

The building company have taken court action against us now and I understand the judge may want a jointly appointed surveyor to do a report .

They are claiming £900 from me for interest over the two years.

They have often taken two to three months to answer my letters and it's been a year since they said they would take me to court if I did not pay the full amount for this bodged work. They have refused to come back to rectify all of it, but are charging me £36 a month interest charges.

Four months ago I offered to pay half and the remaining half when all the work had been put right.

They rejected this offer.

Today as an attempt to avoid court proceedings I have offered to pay 75 percent of the invoice and the remaining balance when they have carried out all the remedial works.

The agreement at the start of the job was payment on completion.

[slick132]

Hi Mel,

 

See this post and copy it below giving answers to the relevant Q's - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**&p=4486063&viewfull=1#post4486063

 

[Mellanie123]

Thank you for that Slick it's very helpful.

Does anyone know if I am able to submit emails (from the lead sheet association) giving me information regarding the lead work done on this job.

Many Thanks.

[slick132]

Hi Mel,

 

Whether info about Lead Work should be included as email or data sheets, or as part of a Surveyor's Report, will be dealt with as part of the Defence and possibly your Counterclaim.

 

First off, we need you to copy that post I linked, then give your brief answers in a different colour, so we can distinguish between the Q's and your Answers.

 

[Mellanie123]

I am filling in my defence form now. I am having a problem getting a quote to redo this work on the conservatory. I have had builders come to see the work and they won't touch it. They have said they wouldn't put their name to it. I had a double glazing company look at it and they gave me a quote. The quote is more than the amount that the building company that did the work are claiming. Before they have added the interest on. The price they charged was £6300, the quote for the work was £6,500. Can I counterclaim more than the original work cost?

 

On the defence form I have said I deny I owe this amount because of the breach of contract by the claimant and they have breached their contract by not using reasonable care and skill in carrying out the works on the conservatory. Also being charged for work that was not carried out. Is there any special wording I could use?

 

Can I state that the counterclaim is for no less than £5000 and no more than £7000 for now until I get another quote in. I'm due three more but they are not on a hurry to send them

Can I counterclaim for the cost of the surveyors report that I paid for ?

 

I offered to make full payment up front if they returned to do all the remedial work in an attempt to resolve this. but they rejected this

 

This is all so daunting. We don't have anywhere here where I can get legal advice apart from solicitors at £150 an hour.

Thank you for advice.