Claimant commitment confusion

[trebormoinet]

It is paid work,

As far I can tell, I can be directed to apply for jobs that offer less than 16 hours per week but I can refuse to accept the job if offered without being penalized.

[trebormoinet]

Just to update if anyone interested, my advisor says they have had a think after what I said last week and decided I don't have to have a video mock interview after all, I can just have a mock interview without video and without dressing for the occasion, not sure if they have changed their stance on compassionate grounds, taking my feelings into account, else they realised they could not mandate me without my consent, either way it is result I wont argue with.

 

Now I have just got to absorb the way they want me to act and think using the superstar technique so I can show at the mock interview I have been successfully assimilated by the borg, but take heart that resistance is not futile.

[SabreSheep]

Just remember

If the DWP are Borg

You be Janeway Work out how they work, Oppose them, occasionally deal with them, use their nature against them, use them to your advantage where you can and in the end destroy them

[LazyToucan]

Good news about the video situation.

 

I would also say, in general regarding these mock interviews, be careful not to let your guard down too much and give away any information you may not want them to have. What I mean is, don't give any answers which they may later come back at you with, e.g., "but you said in your mock interview that you would be willing to do x, y or z"

[trebormoinet]

Just remember

If the DWP are Borg

You be Janeway

 

lol, Well I see myself more of a Picard tbh after he was captured by the Borg and they assimilated him into the collective,(spoiler alert lol) turns out all right though in the end once he removes the Borg implants and augmentations, but I fear like Picard I will also be left with the trauma of experience.

[trebormoinet]

Good news about the video situation.

 

I would also say, in general regarding these mock interviews, be careful not to let your guard down too much and give away any information you may not want them to have. What I mean is, don't give any answers which they may later come back at you with, e.g., "but you said in your mock interview that you would be willing to do x, y or z"

 

Good point and thanks for the advice, I shall take that into consideration when I formulate my replies, I am hoping the outcome will be I get the mock job, then I can do away with all this mock training they provide.

[Raven1]

This was mooted to me when I was at Ingeus, I had already demonstrated my barrack room lawyer capabilities to them so when I cited my (not entirely recovered from) nervous breakdown and my firm belief that anything stressful like videoing would only serve to exacerbate my existing health issues they dropped it... but I had a fall back plan

 

I had decided to look straight into the camera with an expression of stark terror and then start babbling' Why are you doing this to me? I told you I couldn't cope with it? Why, why would you do this to someone... why why...' and at some point my head would go into my hands and stay there, a slither to the ground from my seat might even come into play.

 

They wouldn't be able to delete it fast enough in case it was used against them.

[trebormoinet]

I had decided to look straight into the camera with an expression of stark terror and then start babbling' Why are you doing this to me? I told you I couldn't cope with it? Why, why would you do this to someone... why why...' and at some point my head would go into my hands and stay there, a slither to the ground from my seat might even come into play.

lol, I can picture the scene, for extra drama add a fake nose bleed into the mix by crushing one of those blood capsules from the joke shop.

[trebormoinet]

My advisor at Ingeus took voluntary redundancy and told me on the last meeting that Ingeus would get in touch with me regarding my new advisor and next appointment.

 

I have been on the work program for just over a year.

 

Normally I am asked to attend every fortnight and receive a text message the day before confirming my appointment.

 

When I attend I am asked how many jobs I have applied for each week, do I need any travel money and then I leave, never there more than 5 mins.

 

I have had a fairly easy ride with the work program if I am honest, I read up on all the guidance and stood my ground early on, withdrew my consent, and the fruits of that was my advisor left me alone.

 

Now tomorrow is when I would normally attend but I have not received any communication from Ingeus nor a text message.

 

Problem is my mail is unreliable due to having a dyslexic postman so I am concerned that maybe they have sent a letter, but my phone is always on and I have not received a text message.

 

So what would you peeps do in this situation, contact Ingeus or enjoy the break, personally I hope they have forgot about me because I can see me having a fun time again having to train my new advisor to leave me alone lol

[sillygirl1]

I'd contact them just in case - then you have proof you did not 'evade or avoid' them. Don 't forget to record the call (you don't need to let them know you are recording it as it is only for your records - not for any other use).

[ripples]

I would definitely call them so that you are in the clear or you could suddenly get a note in the post that you have been sanctioned

[Skyro]

If it were me, I would let sleeping dogs lie. If you have not had an appointment letter then you have no reason to attend and nothing to be held accountable for. It is not up to you to manage their appointments!

That's my opinion, others who have posted would take a more cautious approach...at the end of the day only you can decide how you handle it.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Skyro

[tfp]

When at Ingeus, I was unseen for about THREE months! A chap I know was ignored for longer still! Little wonder Ingeus rightfully earned the nickname 'Ignore Us'. Par for the course with these dodgy W2W companies.

[louise2012]

I go to People Plus but have no appointments for next week and my next appointment which I received a letter is for next month.

[trebormoinet]

Can someone confirm for me that the 2 periods of illness we are entitled to up to a maximum of 14 days refers to the entire period we are on benefits and not yearly as I presumed.

 

So basically If I had 2 periods of illness in the last 3 years and I have been claiming benefits for the whole of that period, then I will have to claim for the extended period of sickness ?

[antone]

The two periods of sickness are done on a rolling yearly basis. In other words if, on the date you wish to declare a further period of sickness, you have had two previous periods in the 12 months ending on that date, you will not be able to declare another. It's not two periods for the entirety of your claim.

[trebormoinet]

The two periods of sickness are done on a rolling yearly basis. In other words if, on the date you wish to declare a further period of sickness, you have had two previous periods in the 12 months ending on that date, you will not be able to declare another. It's not two periods for the entirety of your claim.

 

That is how I interpreted the rules but when I phoned for the forms the advisor mentioned a period of illness I had back in 2014, this made me check the rules and on the .gov website it says "in any job seeking period" ask your work coach what this means...which I did and they told me that a job seeking period is the entirety of my claim and not a yearly entitlement.

[antone]

That is how I interpreted the rules but when I phoned for the forms the advisor mentioned a period of illness I had back in 2014, this made me check the rules and on the .gov website it says "in any job seeking period" ask your work coach what this means...which I did and they told me that a job seeking period is the entirety of my claim and not a yearly entitlement.

 

A JSP is the shorter of one year or the entirety of your claim (including any linked claims).

 

See the DMG Chapter 4 and scroll to section 20961.

[trebormoinet]

A JSP is the shorter of one year or the entirety of your claim (including any linked claims).

 

See the DMG Chapter 4 and scroll to section 20961.

Thank you for pointing me to the relevant documentation, I will confront my advisor with this.

[trebormoinet]

Hi,

I have recorded on my file 2 exceptions which I asked to be added to my records, a few years ago, Colour blindness and a fear of heights.

 

I have just seen my new work coach who almost blew a gasket when they noticed this as they were about to get me to apply for a job as a wire loom operator, one requirement of this work was good colour vision.

 

They said that they would like to see a doctors note to confirm these exceptions but I have never been to a doctors about them, although they are both genuine conditions I have.

 

So do I waste the doctors time, would they even issue a mote for these conditions, I know there is a test for colour blindness to help the doctor but how would he ascertain I have a fear of heights apart from me standing on a step ladder and I freeze with fear ?

 

As a side question regarding another vacancy they pulled up involved travelling across the country including NI and staying away from home for days at a time, I really have a problem with travel sickness on long distances and do not wish to stay away from home overnight, do I have to go to the doctors for travel sickness as well, can I be mandated for work that involves staying away from home ?

[Nystagmite]

Do you have caring responsibilities which means you couldn't stay away from home?

[trebormoinet]

Do you have caring responsibilities which means you couldn't stay away from home?

No, I did mention my son relies on me at times to have my grandchildren, but as I already knew this will have no bearing as far as the DWP are concerned.

 

I do not know if if it is a mental illness or not but I am uncomfortable with sleeping in bed and breakfasts, hotels etc, I go camping if I need a break for this reason.

 

I think I am borderline something because the prospect of travelling in a van/mini bus fills me with fear and I suffer from motion sickness, I am Ok if driving myself or on a train no problem.

 

I no someone might be tempted to say grow a spine, I tell me myself that everyday.

[Mr.P]

I have recorded on my file 2 exceptions which I asked to be added to my records, a few years ago, Colour blindness and a fear of heights.

 

I have just seen my new work coach who almost blew a gasket when they noticed this as they were about to get me to apply for a job as a wire loom operator, one requirement of this work was good colour vision.

 

They said that they would like to see a doctors note to confirm these exceptions but I have never been to a doctors about them, although they are both genuine conditions I have.

 

I have a couple of fairly minor medical conditions that prevent me from working in a couple of sectors. When challenged, my response was "You are not medically qualified to make that decision, nor are you authorised to see any of my personal medical notes". This was a few years ago, but even with the current regime, I would still use the same argument.

 

As for travel, I'd use the same rules that they impose on claimants: You are expected to travel up to 90 minutes to the place of work on top of the agreed hours of availability. So if this vacancy requires two hours of travel each way, then this is outside the DWP expectations. However, I suspect that the vacancy in question would have a designated "place of employment" (i.e. office) that falls within the 90 minute commute and these away days would be extended site visits. Could you be mandated to apply or be given a Job Seeker's Direction ? Quite possibly, but without reading up on the Decision Makers Manual, I wouldn't like to say if you would receive a sanction for refusing.

 

I've also had my fill of site visits and away days. It is something I leave to others who don't have commitments or a social life outside of work.

[antone]

One thing to remember here is that DWP staff should not disbelieve what a claimant tells them without good reason, certainly not under these circumstances.

 

Basically, claimants have a right to be believed. The only exceptions are statements which contradict something he or she has previously said, or which contradict other information the DWP holds, or which are inherently improbable ("I missed the appointment because I was mauled by a tiger"). So while I might be tempted to just supply the doctor's note if it will put the matter to bed, they really shouldn't be asking for it unless they have some specific reason to think that the OP is not being truthful.

[trebormoinet]

However, I suspect that the vacancy in question would have a designated "place of employment" (i.e. office) that falls within the 90 minute commute and these away days would be extended site visits

Hi.

Mr P

Thank you for the response your thoughts always appreciated

 

Yes is how the work coach interpreted the scenario and reluctantly I feel they are correct in that regard, I also thought about the 90 minute commute rule but it is rather vague, if my chosen method of transport is walking, which it is, then there is no way I could get to the offices and my problem is solved BUT can they insist I use public transport.

 

According to

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/473406/admr4.pdf

 

R4162

When considering how long it would normally take to travel, regard should be given

to

 

"1.

the claimant’s normal method of transport (WALKING)

2.

the availability of transport such as frequency of public transport and cover in

rural areas --

3.

any personal factors, for example a driving ban

4.

impairments which may cause travelling independently between locations to

take longer than it would for someone without such an impairment. "

 

I read into things wrong, but to me it seems it is saying, if my normal method of transport is walking which it is, then 90 minuets walking distance is my range as far as location and looking for work is concerned.

 

One thing to remember here is that DWP staff should not disbelieve what a claimant tells them without good reason, certainly not under these circumstances.

 

Basically, claimants have a right to be believed. The only exceptions are statements which contradict something he or she has previously said, or which contradict other information the DWP holds, or which are inherently improbable ("I missed the appointment because I was mauled by a tiger"). So while I might be tempted to just supply the doctor's note if it will put the matter to bed, they really shouldn't be asking for it unless they have some specific reason to think that the OP is not being truthful.

 

Thank you the response, you have restored my faith that there might be a spark of humanity in the system, if indeed that is general policy at the DWP/JCP.

 

I felt when being interrogated about my exceptions, that I was lying or shirking my responsibilities, when I mentioned I was in a very bad traffic accident years ago and that was why I have issues travelling long distances van/mini bus they told me they also had been in 2 car accidents so they know how I feel, BUT.... they can do it so why cant I, arrrggghhhhhhh... I got rather frustrated at that point and said we are not the same, things affect people in different ways, I was met with a rather stern "who do you think you are talking to me like that" so I bit my tongue because I knew where this was leading and took the direction to attend the interview, not a very good start for my first meeting with my new advisor,

 

Would it be unreasonable to make a complaint on the understanding that there was no reason to disbelieve what I was saying, that their responses were condescending to say the least and was being unreasonable in requesting a note from my doctors,also is it possible to request a new work coach or would I be making a rod for my own back and be better off getting a doctor to assess and note my issues, or both.

 

If a complaint is in order here then what is the correct procedure to follow ?

 

As an aside I have just read up on the job I have been directed to apply for, A retail merchant !

 

Now I have never heard of this job before, its requirements go far beyond my skill set, I do not have a degree for a start, technically according to the DMG I could be sanctioned if I wrote down I applied for this job in my work diary as it would be as it would be reasonable to expect I would fail as would it be unreasonable if I applied to be a surgeon.

 

I forgot to mention I was never issued any paper work regarding applying for the job, so does that mean I can decide it is not for me and not go to the interview ?

 

As far as I was aware it would have to be in the form of a job seekers direction written down with a full explanation detailing the consequences if I failed to participate.

 

I am sure they would also get me to sign something so that I cannot just say I wasn't notified as a defence ?