Debtor sentenced to 8 months in prison after bailiffs seize his car.

[Bailiff Advice]

There are so many press reports recently of debtors being arrested and in this case, found guilty and sentenced to 8 months in prison (suspended). In this case the debtor's car had been moved onto a vehicle trailer by bailiffs from JBW Group and the debtor set the car on fire.

 

Link and word version of story below:

 

 

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Plymouth-man-set-car-seized-bailiffs/story-26217852-detail/story.html

 

 

 

Desperate Bekim Recica, aged 42, set the Vauxhall Zafira ablaze as a recovery company prepared to remove it from outside his home, Plymouth Crown Court heard.

 

The father-of-five had earlier threatened to kill anyone who came near the vehicle.

 

Nobody was hurt but the car was wrecked and the low loader where it was sitting was damaged, the court heard.

 

Handing him a suspended prison sentence, Judge Paul Darlow told him: “It was explained to you that once the car was seized, it no longer belonged to you.

 

“You clearly armed yourself with petrol and made very determined efforts to set fire to the car despite very clear warnings.”

Edited April 1, 2015 by honeybee13
Edited down to about 15% of the quoted article for copyright reasons.

[unclebulgaria67]

When will the job of an enforcement agent become so dangerous that they cannot function ? I think as time goes on, they will face more risk and I can see some getting killed.

 

Think they need to address the risk point of view, before it leads to a tragic event. The EA's who are being overly agressive and not allowing people a chance to settle a liablity in a fair manner, are causing their colleagues greater risk. Personally I think there should be a greater role for the courts, when people refuse to pay and for the Police to be involved when people refuse to cooperate with the courts. It should not get to the stage where people are setting fire to cars that are being taken. That is a failure.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Its good to hear that this has been dealt with properly.

I'm sorry, but there is no one to blame here but the debtor. He code not to pay and he chose to set fire to his car.

 

Ub, you say the courts should have more of a role...how. At the moment, they grant a judgment and if the debtor fails to pay, enforcement commences. What else would you do?

 

And you say the police should be more involved? So the civil debts should be made criminal? How about bring back debtors prisons?

 

We as EA's do have a difficult and sometimes dangerous job to do. Which is why we often wear cameras, double man crew or attend with the police where necessary.

[Bailiff Advice]

Without knowing further background it is difficult to comment but the fact is that with a parking ticket the debtor should receive a notice on his car in the first instance and he is then able to pay at a 50% discount. If no payment is received a Notice to Owner is issued and the debtor can use this stage as well to appeal the PCN. If payment is still not forthcoming the debt increases and a Charge Certificate is issued advising that if not paid that the debt will be registered in the County Court. Failure to engage at this stage, will lead to ANOTHER notice being sent called an Order for Recovery. This document is the last stage to 'appeal' and will advise that the debt has now been registered as a debt and that a warrant will be issued.

 

If all of the above notices are ignored there is yet one further opportunity to settle the debt when the Notice of Enforcement is sent by the bailiff company. At this stage a payment proposal can be submitted.

 

Therefore if the debtor fails to engage with the local authority and fails also to engage with the enforcement company then it is considered by the EA that the debtor is not likely to want to pay and this is why the bailiff visits with the intention of 'taking control of goods'.

 

In the case outlined the debtor appears adamant that he will not pay the bailiff and instead....at this very late stage.... wants to revert back to paying the previous lower figure of £100 to the local authority.

 

I have been advising debtors regarding bailiff visits for nearly 10 years now and sadly it is the case that an individual bailiff (making a doorstep visit) is more likely than not to be able to make his living from debtors who keep their head in the sand.

[%Ostrich%]

While it's true that PCN collection has helped to provide me with an income over the years, I've always felt that bailiff action for such matters to be some what draconian.

 

When you consider that I can overstay my welcome in a private car park and avoid paying the PCN wih a carefully worded appeal that stands up to scrutiny from POPLA, it seems outrageous that people can have their car sold to pay a lousy £25 council parking ticket.

 

That said, the guy in this article was clearly deranged !

[unclebulgaria67]

Its good to hear that this has been dealt with properly.

I'm sorry, but there is no one to blame here but the debtor. He code not to pay and he chose to set fire to his car.

 

Ub, you say the courts should have more of a role...how. At the moment, they grant a judgment and if the debtor fails to pay, enforcement commences. What else would you do?

 

And you say the police should be more involved? So the civil debts should be made criminal? How about bring back debtors prisons?

 

We as EA's do have a difficult and sometimes dangerous job to do. Which is why we often wear cameras, double man crew or attend with the police where necessary.

 

For certain debts I would use the courts more and if people are refusing to deal with them, even after a court tells them to attend for a hearing, then that is contempt of court. In that event the Police or a court official could force them to attend.

 

I am not talking about financial debts, but those related to criminal fines, police/council issued parking tickets.

 

The new rules, some of which mean EA's can earn more, could be encouraging some to act in a way that will not be helpful to the industry in the long run.

 

Perhaps people who are refusing to pay, just don't have the finances to be able to pay and there should be an easy route provided, so they can come to an affordable arrangement, after providing some evidence of their financial position.

[Bailiff Advice]

While it's true that PCN collection has helped to provide me with an income over the years, I've always felt that bailiff action for such matters to be some what draconian.

 

When you consider that I can overstay my welcome in a private car park and avoid paying the PCN with a carefully worded appeal that stands up to scrutiny from POPLA, it seems outrageous that people can have their car sold to pay a lousy £25 council parking ticket.

 

That said, the guy in this article was clearly deranged !

 

With the changes introduced yesterday there will be a significant reduction in the number of parking tickets issued by local authorities and this will impact on the number of warrants eventually issued.

 

Local authorities will now be restricted from issuing parking tickets in the post based solely on evidence from CCTV cameras. Instead, traffic wardens will need to either affix tickets physically to the vehicle, or hand the ticket to the person that appears to be in charge of the vehicle.

 

With CCTV enforcement a letter is sent in the post and with many people not updating their records at DVLA notices commonly are delivered to a previous address. By having the parking ticket affixed to the vehicle or handed to the individual this should significantly reduce the number of cases of missing documentation etc.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

Perhaps people who are refusing to pay, just don't have the finances to be able to pay and there should be an easy route provided, so they can come to an affordable arrangement, after providing some evidence of their financial position.

 

Wrong thread I know but with the forthcoming changes on 13th April it will be the case that anyone subject to a court fine will have PLENTY of opportunity to agree an affordable payment plan with HMCTS and therefore avoid bailiffs.

 

With debtors who are in paid employment, there should be less cases going to bailiffs as well given the new changes at HMRC meaning that HM Courts & Tribunals will first attempt to get the debt paid by way of an Attachment against Earnings.

 

As I have said many times on the forum, the importance of debtors addressing correspondence and engaging with the court, the local authority or enforcement company is of vital importance.

[caledfwlch]

There is a simple way to not only remove the need for Enforcement Agents in personal/domestic issues (I have no particular problem with EA's dealing with debts owed by business to be honest) but to raise repayments to 100%. Simply use attachment of earnings and attachment of benefits to recover money at a fair affordable weekly rate. It would take seconds for Inland Revenue to confirm with a court and the DWP a debtors employment details - in fact it would probably save even more admin money if the IR deduct the payments via a new tax code - keep it between the court and the IR. Perhaps allow the new EA's who deal only with commercial debt to also still be deployable against the self employed, if they refuse to engage with the court/claimant. It is absolutely ludicrous and a bit of a farce, that in the UK of 2015 a man or woman who could well have a criminal conviction for anything from violence to fraud has more powers over an ordinary member of the Public than the attested constables of the Police!! The infamous "I remove your right to enter my property" law for example does not work against EA's, yet a Police Officer without a warrant or genuine belief a crime is taking place on the property IS covered by the law and may not disregard it... absolutely mental.

[numbers666]

With debtors who are in paid employment, there should be less cases going to bailiffs as well given the new changes at HMRC meaning that HM Courts & Tribunals will first attempt to get the debt paid by way of an Attachment against Earnings.

 

Whilst is can see what this is trying to do, in reality, can we expect to see dismissals from employers for this ? Certain professions exclude fines / court orders / deductions. Even then, it does not stop ER's from dismissing just because of this.

 

Just what impact it will have in the long run is anyone's guess. Having said all that it is better than HMRC having direct access to the bank account.

 

Glad that no one was harmed in the firm, clearly a disturbed person.

[caledfwlch]

Not much news on this, but Campaigners turned up at the home of a Lady in Cardiff who was to be evicted for non payment of the Bedroom Tax.

 

One of the Campaigners was then arrested for "Obstruction of an Enforcement Officer"

 

It will be interesting to see what they actually did, and if they are eventually prosecuted, and if Guilty, what punishment the Court will impose.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-07-23/campaigner-arrested-in-bedroom-tax-eviction-protest/

[brassnecked]

An innocent third party could be done for obstructing an EA if they interfere with him trying to seize his car at 32 Acacia Road, when the debtor lived at 32 Acacia Avenue; as it is a Strict Liabilty offence, you either obstruct or you don't, whether you are the debtor or not is of no consequence resisting him clamping your car for a third party debt is still likely obstruction.

 

In this increasingly Kafkaesque system, just a thought, could we as advisors be regarded as "Obstructing" the EA if we tell a debtor not to let the EA in? Dafter things have been tried by bailiffs.

Edited July 26, 2015 by brassnecked
added paranoia.

[Bailiff Advice]

Not much news on this, but Campaigners turned up at the home of a Lady in Cardiff who was to be evicted for non payment of the Bedroom Tax.

 

One of the Campaigners was then arrested for "Obstruction of an Enforcement Officer"

 

It will be interesting to see what they actually did, and if they are eventually prosecuted, and if Guilty, what punishment the Court will impose.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-07-23/campaigner-arrested-in-bedroom-tax-eviction-protest/

 

Of more importance (although on a slightly different subject) are the events of Friday and Saturday when protestors attempted to re-occupy the property previously owned by Tom Crawford (thread below).

 

The activists (because that is what they are) were eventually removed from the roof and loftspace of the property at 6pm on Saturday and apart from Tom Crawford's son the rest (8 people) have remained in police custody and are all due in court at 10am this morning.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448461-Tom-Crawford-eviction-by-bailiffs-Freeman-on-the-Land-(FMoTL)-nonsense-has-no-place-in-the-courts.

 

 

The press have released the names of most of those involved. One is James John Bradley (Jay Brad) who owns the 'Clamp Fairy' business that is mentioned in this thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?449363-Jason-Dealing-with-Bailiffs-amp-Bailiff-Help-Forum&p=4768112&viewfull=1#post4768112

 

Another person in custody has been confirmed as being 'Ceylon' who is behind the FMoTL website; Get Out of Debt Free.

 

PS: Depending on the view of the moderators, I can publish further details of the sentencing/court verdicts later today.

[Coughdrop]

The property was secured and, I thought, had security guards in place due to the high profile nature of the case.

 

If these idiots, and I'd be very surprised if anyone on any forum I know of or read differs in this opinion, insist on breaking through the roof of somebody's house to access it via the loft space, they really deserve the full weight of justice to bear down on them regardless of who they are, or any associations they may or may not have.

[Old Cogger]

pity these tings do not happen to Debt purchasers and banks who owe money due to claimants, Ah ! but of course they hide behind/flaunt the law without recourse.

[brassnecked]

pity these tings do not happen to Debt purchasers and banks who owe money due to claimants, Ah ! but of course they hide behind/flaunt the law without recourse.

"What a shame" J.C. Denton (Lead character in Deus Ex.) Would be nice if some DCA directors and bankers went to jail.