ECP PCN bishop centre taplow **Won at POPLA**

[Shads]

Hi there,

 

Always admired the forums and gained knowledge & info from here and always keep like to keep tabs. Finally looking for a little help myself.

 

Went to Bishop Centre Taplow.

11th March 15 in the evening.

 

Received a parking charge notice from euro car parks.

They were using cameras to capture my entering & leaving times.

 

Unfortunately I exceeded the 3hr free parking time stay there.

I have been told according to the letter that under schedule 4 of the protections of freedoms Act 2012

they have the right to recover from the registered keeper so much that amount that remains unpaid. I

 

Must admit I've never noticed the signs before (but never really looked for them I guess) untill I went back to check after receiving the charge And there are signs in the car park which state the 3 hr free stay.

 

Reading some previous cases i appealed Roughly along the lines of...

 

DearECP

As the registered keeper of the vehicle, registration XXXX XXX, I have received your invoice number xxxxxx.

 

The driver at the time tells me that They where shopping at tesco then finished the evening & frankie & bennies, and that they are therefore not liable to pay u any money.

 

If you reject this appeal, please issue me with a valid POPLAicon code.

 

Yours

 

Registered Keeper.

 

 

They have since reied with the following:

 

Dear Customer,

 

Please forward a copy of any receipts or bank statements, to confirm you were using the facilities on site on the date the parking charge notice was issued and to substantiate your length of stay on site.

 

On receipt of this information your email correspondence will be forwarded to the parking charge notice department to complete a further investigation and respond

I will place the parking charge notice on hold for 14 days to allow you to get these documents to us

 

Kind Regards

 

Customer Service

 

What would be my next step, Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Ash

[JoeyJoeC]

Did you appeal to the window ticket, or did you wait for the notice to keeper to arrive in the post?

 

EDIT: Reading your post again I can see you replied to the NTK. Since you asked for a POPLA code, they have to provide you with one. Have they given you one?

 

Was it a free car park?

[Dublindel]

They have not given a decision so therefore no code is yet required to be given.

[JoeyJoeC]

They have not given a decision so therefore no code is yet required to be given.

 

You are correct.

[Shads]

No, no windscreen ticket, adjust a letter in the post to registered keeper with photo of my number plate at entering and leaving times.

 

Yes it is a free car park, which on further notice says is a maximum of 3hrs (which isn't very long in my opinion if you was to do a tesco shop and then stay for a meal at frankie & benny's)

 

Is there a way of fighting this or avoiding it or am i going to have to admit defeat and accept the fact of paying the hefty fine of £75? (Or if I'm

Still lucky the reduced £45)

 

Is there a fight to make? Or should I respond to they're email (even though I've played it as it wasn't me there?)

 

Thanks in advance

[JoeyJoeC]

You can fight this for sure. What loss did you cause them?

 

If you can prove that you were shopping there, then send them a copy of your receipts, or a copy of your bank statement for the time you were there. If you can't you will still be able to appeal to POPLA stating that since it was a free cark park, then there wasn't a loss. You will most likely win.

[Shads]

No i can't unfortunatly. so how would you recommend in responding?

 

Something along the lines of...

 

Dear ECP

The driver informs me that they were indeed in the Tesco shopping centre and eventually in the frankie & benny's restaurant that evening and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve them. Unless you have proof to the contrary?

 

or the second time of asking now, cancel this charge notice or if you reject this challenge, send me a valid and correctly issued POPLA code by return.

 

Yours,

 

Registered Keeper

 

Should I reply with anything else or change/add to it, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Ash

[armadillo71]

Add that at POPLA you shall be asking for a breakdown of the genuine pre estimate of loss that the charge must represent.

[Shads]

Is this better, something along these lines?

 

Dear ECP

The driver informs me that they were indeed in the Tesco shopping centre and eventually in the frankie & benny's restaurant that evening and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve them. Unless you have proof to the contrary?

 

or the second time of asking now, cancel this charge notice or if you reject this challenge, send me a valid and correctly issued POPLAicon code by return.

 

At POPLA I shall be asking for a breakdown of the genuine pre estimate of loss that the charge must represent, which might I add that since it was a free cark park, then there wasn't a loss.

 

Your,

 

Registered Keeper

 

 

Or still something wrong/Ammend?

 

Thanks in advance again everyone for your help

[dx100uk]

http://www.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-0964707606882478:652l7hswbgv&ie=UTF-8&q=bishop+centre+taplow&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=bishop%20centre%20taplow&gsc.page=1

[armadillo71]

Is this better, something along these lines?

 

DearECP

 

The driver informs me that they were indeed in the Tesco shopping centre and eventually in the frankie & benny's restaurant that evening and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve them. Unless you have proof to the contrary?

 

At the second time of asking now, cancel this charge notice or if you reject this challenge, send me a valid and correctly issued POPLA code by return.

 

At POPLA I shall be asking for a breakdown of the genuine pre estimate of loss that the charge must represent, which might I add that since it was a free cark park, then there wasn't a loss.

 

Registered Keeper

 

Or still something wrong/Ammend?

 

Thanks in advance again everyone for your help

 

Without seeing a picture of the signage , we are assuming ECP are claiming a breach of contract and not contractual charge. That must be a GPEOL, so by letting them know you will use that at POPLA, then they may cancel the charge without wasting their money issuing a POPLA code.

 

You could include this Tesco survey as well if you wish, just to prove that the car park is NEVER more than 75% occupied and no loss has occurred;

 

http://sbdc-pa.southbucks.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=NJWUTIOH0FB00

 

http://sbdc-pa.southbucks.gov.uk/online-applications/files/41ED231CDDE148B83E65FD21DCE31086/pdf/15_00296_FUL--3527235.pdf

[Shads]

Do I add those now to the reply to Ecp or save it for popla?

[armadillo71]

Do I add those now to the reply to Ecp or save it for popla?

 

I would add the 'design and access statement' part to your reply to ECP ,if you want a better chance of cancellation without going to POPLA.

[ericsbrother]

I agree, it also shows that you have tried to settle the matter by being co-operative and if they dont consider this they will look to be the awkward ones.

[Shads]

Dear ECP

The driver informs me that they were indeed in the Tesco shopping centre and eventually in the frankie & benny's restaurant that evening and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve them. Unless you have proof to the contrary?

 

i enclose the following document, just to prove that the car park is NEVER more than 75% occupied at any time and no loss has occurred.

*insert link to design and access statment* ((cant add link now as cant post link or pictures at the mo?))

 

At the second time of asking now, cancel this charge notice or if you reject this challenge, send me a valid and correctly issued POPLAicon code by return.

 

At POPLA I shall be asking for a breakdown of the genuine pre estimate of loss that the charge must represent, which might I add that since it was a free cark park, and also it was far from "at full capacity" then there wasn't a loss.

 

Yours,

 

Registered Keeper

 

is this better? should i send this as the final draft for now as my reply to ECP?

 

many thanks in advance for everyones help.

 

regards

 

Ash

[Shads]

just a quick side question while i await your responses on my current draft, i just noticed that on the back of the notice letter i recieved, paying on web has a £1.50 handling charge, and paying by post has a £2.50 charge.. is that acceptable/allowed?

[Dublindel]

Neither matter as you will not be making any payment

[ericsbrother]

the answer is no, it isnt allowed and that CAN make any contract unconscionable and therefore void as it is unlawful to demand such fees.

[Shads]

Hi everyone, just an update.

 

Got a reply this morning, this is what it said

 

The link you have sent does not work – we do not have to prove that the driver did not use facilities on site – regardless the terms and conditions are displayed and all drivers should be adhering to these.

 

We request receipts as a gesture of good will as the car park is for customers only, drivers can provide receipts to substantiate their length of stay and confirm their use of the facilities.

 

Please provide your PCN number and registration I will forward your comments regarding pre-estimate of loss onto the appeals department to be considered with appeal and you will be sent a full response via post.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

Customer Service

 

Thoughts and next step?

[armadillo71]

Well I would of attached the pdf 'design and access statement' to your appeal and a link but never mind.

 

Why would they be asking for the PCN number and registration?

 

Surely you included that with your appeal...

 

I would reply by stating that you have appealed twice now, so cancel the charge or issue a valid POPLA code.

 

Attach a cpoy of your appeal and state that no more correspondence will be entered into.

[Shads]

I tried to include the link to the pdf but obviously I didn't quite do it correctly.

*sigh*

 

When you say attach a copy of my appeal how do you mean or how do I go about doing that as the original appeal was a little form online in they're website?

 

Many thanks for your help armadillo, it's is honestly greatly appreciated.

[armadillo71]

I've never used ECPs website so don't really know! I prefer ink on paper with proof of postage:)

 

Who did you write to last time if they are going to foward your appeal to the appeals department?

[darsy23]

Hi everyone,

 

Apologies for hijacking this thread. I find myself in a very similar position, and am hoping to receive further advice from the helpful people on this board as well as helping the original poster at the same time.

 

I received a PCN for the same 'offence' at the same car park as the original poster. I appealed on the grounds of poor signage, which I'd assumed to be a valid case.

There is a small board at the entrance of the car park, which is insufficient and misleading in my opinion, given that motorists allegedly enter into a contract at the point of entering the car parking facilities. There are then further boards dotted around the perimeter, but admittedly, at that point I'd made the assumption that the car park is free to customers in the absence of any barriers, pay & display signs or clearly visible boards at the entrance.

 

My appeal got rejected and a POPLA code was provided, which makes me think ECP are very sure I am not going to get any further with Popla.

 

I did not include anything about the use of the facilities on-site because: a) I'd spoken to the Manager at Tesco Taplow and he made it clear that the car park is run independently and has 'nothing to do' with the store or any other facilities on-site, and b) it seemed obvious to me that I was parked there for the shopping and restaurant facilities since there is really nothing else in the vicinity.

 

So, I was surprised to read ECP's response to 'Shads' appeal asking him to: "...provide receipts to substantiate their length of stay and confirm their use of the facilities"

Another victim in a related thread was told he: "...should have asked the staff to exempt my car staying if staying over the maximum stay" [cannot add link, since I'm a newbie]

Well, either there is a maximum stay of 3 hours or there is not.

 

I am very unsure about next steps. There are many encouraging posts on this and other forums, but I wonder now if I'm wasting my time with further appeals? If I do appeal, on what grounds?? Can I add further evidence in my appeal to POPLA or do I need to stick to the same lines as in my original representation?

 

Any advice or personal experience would be much appreciated.

[dx100uk]

you need to start a new thread

 

of your own please

 

dx

[Shads]

hi there just received an update, and wish to have some advice on the next step