Notice of intention to prosecute - ** SETTLED **

[ashlondon]

Hello there,

i received letter from prosecution department "Notice of intention to prosecute"

they found two alleged offence against me

1. giving false name and address ,

2. intention of travel without having a valid ticket entitling to travel,

 

so here's my response to them

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I accept the liability that I was travelling without an appropriate ticket.

I boarded your company’s train service at Huntingdon station with the intent to travel to King’s Cross station on the 6th of January.

 

As later I had to travel to elephant and castle station

I asked one of the members of staff at ST. Pancras station if I was eligible to travel to Elephant and Castle station with my off peak day return ticket.

It was mentioned LONDON TERMINALS (Huntingdon-London Terminals) in that ticket.

 

As most of the time I saw LONDON TERMINALS in my ticket but I never understand what was the meaning of it .

I thought it might be the ticket for any terminals in London.

So this time I asked one of the members of staff at ST. Pancras station that if I was eligible to travel with that ticket to elephant and castle station.

The staff looked at my ticket and said yes.

Then that staff opened the barrier for me.

So I travelled to elephant and castle station with that ticket.

 

As there was no barrier at Elephant castle station, so nobody stopped me there.

But when I came back from Elephant and Castle to ST. Pancras the staff at the barrier stopped me.

The staff said it was not an appropriate ticket for travel between these stations.

 

Upon being stopped by the Revenue Protection Inspector, I cooperated willingly to clarify my honest mistake

and provided personal information to aid his work.

 

As there was some issue with my name and address, but the officer got it right from my ID in the end.

At that time, I was under great stress from my studies and I was very nervous with the questionnaires by the Revenue Protection Inspector.

I was very scared as it was my first-time experience.

 

I'm deeply sorry for any inconvenience that might cause to that officer regarding my name and address.

I was willing to pay for the ticket price, but however I did not have the means to pay due to my financial circumstances at that time.

 

From my conversations with the Revenue Protection Inspector,

I was under the impression that I was only being contacted to pay the ticket price or Penalty Fare.

 

As you can imagine, receiving this prosecution notice has placed me under unduly stress.

 

I have to stress it was not my intention to defraud Govia Thameslink Railway and I sympathise with the need for ticket enforcement to root out dishonest fare dodgers.

I didn't have any intention or whatsoever to travel without a ticket.

I had been given wrong information by the staff at ST. Pancras station which led me to mistakenly travel without a ticket.

Though I had an off peak day return ticket from HUNTINGDON to LONDON TERMINALS.

 

It was an honest mistake; I offer my sincerest apologies for my idiotic mistake.

This is my first incident and it will also be my last

 

I would love to pay the correct fare and any costs that have incurred in processing of the case.

 

Again, I apologise profusely for my error.



Yours faithfully,

*****

[Note: I am sending my last few months’ statement just to show that I always buy ticket. sometimes I pay by cash for the ticket as well.]

 

in reply the said

 

"i refer to the above reference and your recent letter.

having considered the points you have raised i'm writing to inform you this department will be going forward with the case

 

A summons to attend magistrates court will be sent to you in due course.

 

should you require any further information then please do not hesitate to contact me."

 

what shall i do now. anybody please help me. i am lost..

[p3t3r]

hi, just bumping your post as nobody has replied yet..

 

I don't know much about revenue protection, hopefully someone else will be able to help you further...

 

I do question why they are taking you to Court for something that you have already admitted liability for and wish to provide remedy by paying the full fare and any of their processing costs.

[ashlondon]

i don't understand, what they are up to really...

[BazzaS]

What do you mean by "As there was some issue with my name and address, but the officer got it right from my ID in the end." : more detail would be useful.

 

Do you mean that the Revenue Protection staff thought you had given false details?.

 

If so, the combination of false details and lack of a valid ticket may be why they believe you were intending to avoid your full fare.

 

I think more details (included how you think the TOC may be seeing it, or what the Revenue staff recorded : did they ask you to sign their notes? - do you recall what they had written?) may be needed for the experts to offer focused advice.

[ashlondon]

 

Yh i was scared and panic i gave the house no 85 and postcode DN instead of giving 86 and postcode DP . But in second attempt he checked my ID and get my name right. then aked my address again and i get the right address from me. yh he told me to sign the notes. he didin't let me read anything he just told me to sign..

[BazzaS]

 

You can bet he'd say he got you to check the notes and sign them.

Who "just signs" without reading what they are signing .... most unwise.

 

"But in second attempt he checked my ID and get my name right" ... was there also a problem with getting your "name right" initially?.

 

Looking from the TOC's point of view it could well appear that you deliberately(initially) gave false details, which is an offence in itself, and this has reinforced their belief that you not having paid your full fare was with intent rather than a mere mistake, especially if they detected the details were false rather than you saying "ohh, no, thats not right, the correct details are...."

 

How would you intend to persuade them it wasn't deliberate false details? and then not deliberate fare evasion?

I can't yet advise further, as I still don't have a clear picture of exactly what occurred and what the Revenue staff recorded as occurring.

[ashlondon]

 

they found two alleged offence against me

1. giving false name and address ,

2. intention of travel without having a valid ticket entitling to travel,

 

I never travel without a ticket

evrything is in my statement. and i never had this type of situation in my whole life

[ashlondon]

does anybody suggest that shall I call them try to convince and settle out of court. Any suggestions????

 

what will happen next does anybody have any idea???

 

I'm really scared can't sleep at all if I'm gonna end up having a criminal record.

[BazzaS]

That doesn't add anything to what you had previously said.

There is no new relevant information there.

 

In particular you haven't addressed:

 

"But in second attempt he checked my ID and get my name right" ... was there also a problem with getting your "name right" initially?, and

"How would you intend to persuade them it wasn't deliberate false details? and then not deliberate fare evasion?"

 

As for "I never travel without a ticket" ; it appears you did (between St Pancras and Elephant & Castle)

Perhaps unintentionally, but it seems you have yet to persuade the TOC it was unintentional.

 

There are plenty of threads describing the process, and if it does go to court there is a 'sticky' from OldCodja describing the process.

 

If you answer the additional questions I've asked, and any other relevant questions any other contributors ask : you may get advice better tailored to your situation

[ashlondon]

yh one letter of the name was wrong

he checked my ID and Bankcard and get it right.cause i gave him right DOB

he checked my name and address on their system .

and that's how he got my name was wrong.

 

 

if i did it before they could have checked with their system before but it never happened with me previously.

 

 

i have got all the Day Travelcard cost me £5.90 and my zone 1/2 day travel oyster card stated in my statement

and all my rail ticket i buy with my card.

 

 

though i sometime buy ticket using cash and i have spare ticket to show i always buy ticket before travel.

 

 

and this was my first travel with thameslink. cause i was curious about 'LONDON TERMINALS' on my ticket.

 

 

if the staff replied that was an invalid ticket i would buy a ticket and i don't have to end up with this situation.

 

yh it was first time and unintenional because of the staffs mistake.

 

 

how shall i persuade them??

 

do you suggest something about offering a out of court settlement.

 

 

please help me i'm so worried and stressed about this whole things.

[BazzaS]

You still haven't said how the Revenue staff ended up with "one letter of the name was wrong".

Did you give them it 100 % accurately? Or mis-spelt?

 

From "As there was some issue with my name and address, but the officer got it right from my ID in the end.", and "I had been given wrong information by the staff at ST. Pancras station which led me to mistakenly travel without a ticket." It appears you are blaming the rail staff.

 

However, from : "I was willing to pay for the ticket price, but however I did not have the means to pay due to my financial circumstances at that time." : if the staff had told you your ticket wasn't valid from St Pancras to Elephant & Castle : how did you intend to pay if you didn't have the means at the time?. This may be a further reason the TOC hadn't been persuaded ......

 

Blaming the rail staff is rarely successful when seeking an out of court settlement with the TOC.

[ashlondon]

As an example john smith paul I gave like john Steve Paul ..

 

.yh is there anyway you think I try to offer an out of court settlement

 

..can you please help me with how shall I offer a settlement..

There's no harm trying.

..I have no idea how to make an offer

..shall I call them or wrote a letter for an offer.

 

..can you give an example or sample to make an offer..

.any help regarding this will be wonderful

[BazzaS]

Your initial post gave the impression the rail staff made an error.

By "dragging" the information out of you, it is now clear why the TOC feel you gave false details (because you did, an incorrect full name).

You also gave a false address (wrong number and start of postcode).

 

I've also highlighted:

"However, from : "I was willing to pay for the ticket price, but however I did not have the means to pay due to my financial circumstances at that time." : if the staff had told you your ticket wasn't valid from St Pancras to Elephant & Castle : how did you intend to pay if you didn't have the means at the time?", which you haven't answered

 

If you said this to the Revenue staff and they recorded it, you are facing an uphill struggle.

Since you've written that to the TOC Prosecution Office : same result.

 

As for "is there anyway you think I try to offer an out of court settlement ." : you've tried once already.

As you've written once to the TOC, without success, you'd have to change something in writing again to give them new information or a new reason to reconsider.... if you merely do the same again, expect the same result.

 

By not being fully open and honest from the outset here (initially your post made it look like the railway staff had made an error with your details, rather than you actually had given them incorrect details), you've made it hard for people to offer you reliable advice. I'd prefer to spend my time helping people who help me to help them, rather than dragging the truth / full background out of people.

 

By still not answering " I was willing to pay for the ticket price, but however I did not have the means to pay due to my financial circumstances at that time." : if the staff had told you your ticket wasn't valid from St Pancras to Elephant & Castle : how did you intend to pay if you didn't have the means at the time?" .... It looks like you did intend to avoid your fare, making it impossible for me to offer reliable advice if you are looking to persuade the TOC otherwise. You haven't persuaded me : how could I then help you persuade them?.

[ashlondon]

yh i had money in my card but as i first time asked the staff to pay for the fair he sent me to the revenue officer .

before i asked to pay the officer start taking my details.

 

during taking my details he checked my ID and Bank to take my details.

at the end he asked me if i have money to pay.

 

i said NO cause i thought when he was talking about money he was talking about cash.

 

as i already told the barrier staff that i wanted to pay.

I thought they were referring to cash money what i didn't have

 

i was so panicked that i didn't even ask them what they were talking about

...I didn't even know what was i doing at that time.

.I did messed up things.

.when i panic i panic real bad.

..that officer keep saying me to calm down

but i just panicked and messed up everything...

[ashlondon]

i'm extremely sorry i was working at that moment and i couldn't reply.

[ashlondon]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you to explain a series of events which happened on 6th January. I accept the liability for what happened on that day. I panicked a lot and messed up everything on that day. I didn't know how to cooperate with that situation. That officer was keep saying me to keep calm and not to worry. But I just kept panicking and messed up everything. I left the station, realising that what I had done was stupid, but unsure of what to do.

 

I cannot believe how stupid I have been, and I feel an inexpressible burden of regret for my actions and the harm they may have caused to everyone involved in this situation, and I would particularly like to extend an apology to the station staff involved. I realise that fare evasion costs the industry 400 million pounds a year, and I understand the need for a Penalty Fare system. Although I never intended to evade my fare, or to give false details, I can solemnly swear that I have learnt my lesson, and will make sure nothing of this nature ever happens again.

 

I realise that if GTR choose to bring this before court I will have to accept that decision, but if you are willing to settle out of court I would be willing to pay my full penalty fare and offer compensation of £400 pounds to cover all of your costs to this date. I have enclosed cheque as a token of my sincerity. I would be extremely grateful if GTR were willing to consider this as a criminal conviction would ruin my future career as an IT specialist.I have been studying very hard for last four years to become an IT specialist. This the dream of my life . I'm about to submit my project and finish my graduation in two months of time. a criminal conviction would mean I would very likely to get a job in UK or international countries like United States,Australia,Canada . I will have to regret my whole life for my silly mistake, I would never be able to forgive myself.

I realise that I have made a grave mistake and now I must leave the issue in your hands.

I apologise again for my stupidity and ask that you consider my plea.

 

Thank You.

 

any suggestions or feedback on this letter will be wonderful...Thanks

[p3t3r]

Although I never intended to evade my fare, or to give false details,

That sentence does not make any sense.

 

Also, when I replied earlier, I said I can't understand why they are insisting on court proceedings since you already admitted liability and offered to pay costs / compensation etc. I did not know that you had given false details. Perhaps they are seeking prosecution because of the additional element of you not providing correct name & address details.

 

I am not sure if fare evasion is criminal. But failing to give your name & address, or supplying false details to revenue officer is criminal. I do not feel you can use the excuse of your 'panic' as the reason you provided false details.

 

Again, hopefully someone with more knowledge can help you.

[BazzaS]

i'm extremely sorry i was working at that moment and i couldn't reply.

 

Do you have a problem with accuracy?

 

"I couldn't reply" you say, yet you had replied!

Perhaps as you were working you couldn't reply fully, but then maybe it would have been better to delay your reply until you didn't post another half-complete / part-inaccurate reply that makes you look evasive.

[BazzaS]

yh i had money in my card but as i first time asked the staff to pay for the fair he sent me to the revenue officer .

before i asked to pay the officer start taking my details.

 

 

during taking my details he checked my ID and Bank to take my details.

 

 

at the end he asked me if i have money to pay.

 

 

i said NO cause i thought when he was talking about money he was talking about cash.

 

 

as i already told the barrier staff that i wanted to pay.

 

 

I thought they were referring to cash money what i didn't have.

 

 

i was so paniced that i didn't even ask them what they were talking about

 

 

...I didn't even know what was i doing at that time.

 

 

.I did messed up things.

 

 

.when i panic i panic real bad.

 

 

..that officer keep saying me to calm down

 

 

but i just paniced and messed up everything...

 

You have just confirmed that the Revenue staff asked if you had means to pay and you said "no". I suspect their report highlights this, and this (the notes signed by you!) will be impacting on the TOC's decision making.

 

You may well now claim that you said so only in panic.

How are you going to explain that you later wrote the same to the TOC?. Surely you weren't in panic then, when you wrote that "you didn't have the means to pay, at the time".

You didn't write "I didn't have the cash on me, but I had money in my bank account" but "I didn't have the means to pay".....

 

Additionally, the Revenue staff knew you had your bank card (as they confirmed your details from it)!

(You wrote "he checked my ID and Bankcard"....)

 

By all means try and write again to the TOC.

Don't expect success if they detect "inconsistencies" in your story.

[BazzaS]

That sentence does not make any sense.

 

Also, when I replied earlier, I said I can't understand why they are insisting on court proceedings since you already admitted liability and offered to pay costs / compensation etc. I did not know that you had given false details. Perhaps they are seeking prosecution because of the additional element of you not providing correct name & address details.

 

I am not sure if fare evasion is criminal. But failing to give your name & address, or supplying false details to revenue officer is criminal. I do not feel you can use the excuse of your 'panic' as the reason you provided false details.

 

Again, hopefully someone with more knowledge can help you.

 

Firstly, the TOC can "insist on court proceedings" even if a traveller admits liability and offers costs. They aren't obliged to offer an administrative settlement at any stage, even "first detected occasion". I'd hope that for a first episode of ticketless travel, that didn't appear as deliberate evasion, with no exacerbating features, that common sense would prevail, especially if there was some suggestion of contribution of poor advice from station staff.....

That said, I do think the TOC should have discretion to take even a "first detected", admitted offence to court if they feel it necessary : otherwise deliberate fate evaders will think "hah, I know I've got the safety net of at least one administrative penalty before they can take me to court!"

 

There has to be discretion to allow for the balance between deterrence of fare evasion and excessive penalty of accidental mistake .....

 

I think you are correct that the giving of false details makes the "overall picture" seen by the TOC as more likely to be that of deliberate evasion rather than mere error.

 

I can settle your mind as to if fare evasion is criminal or not.

Evasion (rather than a mere error) is deliberate, and with intent. This is a criminal offence (as is the deliberate giving of false details).

 

These are in the same section [s5(3)] of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, as parts a) "fare evasion", b) "short fare" and c) "false details"

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/52-53/57/section/5

 

If any person—

(a) Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or

(b) Having paid his fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or

© Having failed to pay his fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer of a railway company a false name or address,

etc.

[ashlondon]

shall i be detailed and about the whole things to them... can i put it like this way...That i gave wrong name and address at first then i correct it. As i was new at that address i thought if somebody found any communications regarding fines and they might report to the landlord they might kick me from the house so this i use the next door address i thought i might at least be intercept the communications from GTR and able to pay the fine that way .but as i new at that i didn't notice that the next door address was at the same house number 86b and 86c. i thoiught my next door would be 85 but i was worng. iwas so scred about the whole things. at the end officer asked me if i had the money to pay for the ticket what i misunderstood as cash money and said NO . As the officer checked my name from my Bank card i thought that officer was referring to cash money, I was that stupid i didn't ask whether he was talking about cash or card. As i had money in my card at that moment.

 

then all the apology i can write down to persuade them.

 

one thing i remember that officer asked" sign this note to say that you were scared about the whole questionaries that's why you gave wrong name and address" then he let me go but when i reached at the barrier he asked if i had money to pay when i replied NO . as i thought he was refering to the cash money...

 

Please give an honest suggestion how shall i write them a settlement letter based on my sitaution...Thanks everybody for help specially bazzas. Bazzas can you please help me write an honest settlement letter. thinking from your point of view what would you do at this point...

[BazzaS]

shall i be detailed and about the whole things to them... can i put it like this way...That i gave wrong name and address at first then i correct it. As i was new at that address i thought if somebody found any communications regarding fines and they might report to the landlord they might kick me from the house so this i use the next door address i thought i might at least be intercept the communications from GTR and able to pay the fine that way .but as i new at that i didn't notice that the next door address was at the same house number 86b and 86c. i thoiught my next door would be 85 but i was worng. iwas so scred about the whole things. at the end officer asked me if i had the money to pay for the ticket what i misunderstood as cash money and said NO . As the officer checked my name from my Bank card i thought that officer was referring to cash money, I was that stupid i didn't ask whether he was talking about cash or card. As i had money in my card at that moment.

 

then all the apology i can write down to persuade them.

 

one thing i remember that officer asked" sign this note to say that you were scared about the whole questionaries that's why you gave wrong name and address" then he let me go but when i reached at the barrier he asked if i had money to pay when i replied NO . as i thought he was refering to the cash money...

 

Please give an honest suggestion how shall i write them a settlement letter based on my sitaution...Thanks everybody for help specially bazzas. Bazzas can you please help me write an honest settlement letter. thinking from your point of view what would you do at this point...

 

 

I can't help you write an "honest settlement letter" : only you can make your letter honest.

 

You've asked me for my "honest suggestion": I'd hope all my posts are honest, and I don't think you were suggesting I'd been less than honest!.

I don't think I've been less than honest anytime on CAG (I've always given the truth, even if sometimes, if asked for my personal information I may not have given all the full truth - for example, I've often said I don't work in prosecutions, nor even on the railways, and I have noted that some of my work involves looking at patterns and analysing data for inconsistencies : though I've never actually given my job title, and I likely won't : so I've been truthful but not the complete truth - which isn't required of me for the details of my personal information, if that makes sense).

 

Returning to your letter: I suggest that you make it honest and contrite, you can mention the fact that you had asked the staff if the ticket was valid for St. Pancras to Elephant & Castle, but do so factually and don't try to blame rail staff. You may also need to clarify that you did have means to pay, just not cash.

 

While you can get an idea of what to say from the letters others have sent, it also needs to "ring true", so it needs to be your own words, rather than a "cut and paste" or "collage" of other letters, as one of your previous attempts appears.

[ashlondon]

what would be the best option shall i write them for settlement for now or i should wait for the summons to recieve.. which will be the best communication option email,phonecall,fax or a letter with the cheque of my proposed amount £380 for administrative cost and £20 for the penalty fare. what would be the cost to settle you suggest. what cheque will payable to Govia Thameslink Railway...

[ashlondon]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you to explain a series of events which happened on 6th January.

 

I gave wrong name and address at first then i correct it. As i was new at that address i was not quiet familiar with my address as i didn't use it very often. but it's not an excuse it's my responsibility to remember my address. i'm extremely sorry about that mistake but i did remember that i used this address to shop on ebay and i correct the information to the officer. i was so paincked that i mispelled my name what i correect to the officer by showing my Bank card and Student ID.

 

It was entireley my fault, i could have checked my ticket at Elephant and Castle station to check if i was eleigible to travel with that ticket back to ST.Pancras. But i didn't that was my stupid mistake. I was so scared about the whole things when at the end officer asked me if i had the money to pay for the ticket what i misunderstood as cash money and said NO . As the officer checked my name from my Bank card i thought that officer was referring to cash money, I was that stupid i didn't ask whether he was talking about cash or card. As i had money in my card at that moment.

 

I accept the liability for what happened on that day. I panicked a lot and messed up everything on that day. I didn't know how to cooperate with that situation. That officer was keep saying me to keep calm and not to worry. But I just kept panicking and messed up everything. I left the station, realising that what I had done was stupid, but unsure of what to do.

 

I cannot believe how stupid I have been, and I feel an inexpressible burden of regret for my actions and the harm they may have caused to everyone involved in this situation, and I would particularly like to extend an apology to the station staff involved. I realise that fare evasion costs the industry 400 million pounds a year, and I understand the need for a Penalty Fare system. Although I never intended to evade my fare, or to give false details, I can solemnly swear that I have learnt my lesson, and will make sure nothing of this nature ever happens again.

 

I realise that if GTR choose to bring this before court I will have to accept that decision, but if you are willing to settle out of court I would be willing to pay my full penalty fare and offer compensation of £400 pounds to cover all of your costs to this date. I have enclosed cheque as a token of my sincerity. I would be extremely grateful if GTR were willing to consider this as a criminal conviction would ruin my future career as an IT specialist.I have been studying very hard for last four years to become an IT specialist. This the dream of my life . I'm about to submit my project and finish my graduation in two months of time. a criminal conviction would mean I would very likely to get a job in UK or international countries like United States,Australia,Canada . I will have to regret my whole life for my silly mistake, I would never be able to forgive myself.

I realise that I have made a grave mistake and now I must leave the issue in your hands.

I apologise again for my stupidity and ask that you consider my plea.

 

Thank You.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I think that sounds a lot better, let's see what others think. You could add that you undertake never to travel with the wrong ticket again.

 

HB