Excel/BW peel centre Stockport PCN : 23/2/15 - now claimform - help

[Zipadidoodah]

My wife and I visited the Peel Centre Stockport.

 

As we have a 3 week old baby one of us didn't get out of the car so didn't buy a ticket.

(therefore not parked just waiting?)

 

Received today an 'invoice' for £60/£100 as ANPR detected us for a 40 min stay without a ticket.

 

I know lots of people will say ignore it but it's my wife's company car

and they get very stressed over any little matter.

 

Any templates or help would be greatly appreciated.

[i hate bailiffs]

If you want no hassle simply pay the invoice

Better still send them a appeal they will reject it

They will give you a POPLA code and with the correct appeal it will be cancelled

[honeybee13]

Thread moved to the private parking forum.

 

HB

[DragonFly1967]

OK, let's start with the basics.

 

What date was the vehicle parked there?

What is the date on the Notice to Keeper (NTK)?

When did you receive the NTK?

 

As you're saying this is a company car, did they write to your wife's company first?

Have they (the company) just passed the NTK to you/your wife, or have they already replied to Excel naming your wife as the driver?

Or is your wife the Recorded Keeper, but the vehicle is just owned by the company?

 

Lots of questions, sorry, but the answers are important.

[Zipadidoodah]

Thanks for the help - really appreciate it!

 

Date of Incident : 23/2/15

Date issued: 3/3/15

Date received by FleetLease : 9/3/15

Date received by us: 11/3/15

 

The company have just passed it on to us - it looks like Leasedrive are the registered keeper and have not named her as they say they can only do this if ordered to by the courts.

[renegadeimp]

If they have passed it on to you, then this would be very straight forward to get rid of and not pay a penny to it.

[ericsbrother]

it was issued too late for them to claim from fleetlease,

the date of service is the critical bit not when they decided to print a letter and then forget about it.

 

If you have been identified as the driver then all communiaction should now be with you so make the most of it and appeal the charge.

 

How much is the cost of parking there per hour?

That is the maximum they can legally demand but they like to dress up the daylight robbery as a contractual matter.

 

Your appeal should say something like

"I should like to appeal this charge as the vehicle wasnt parked as alleged

but just waiting or setting down of passenger so there has been no breach of the parking contract"

 

If they dont cancel then they should provide a code for appealing to an independent assessor

and when you get that code you can appeal giving a stronger and more detailed case.

We will advise on the wording to defeat most claims.

[Zipadidoodah]

Cost per hour is £1.20

 

When appealing they are asking for the drivers name - should I give it?

 

Ok it was issued too late for them to claim from fleetlease, the date of service is the critical bit not when they decided to print a letter and then forget about it.

If you have been identified as the driver then all communiaction should now be with you so make the most of it and appeal the charge.

How much is the cost of parking there per hour? That is the maximum they can legally demand but they like to dress up the daylight robbery as a contractual matter.

Your appeal should say something like "I should like to appeal this charge as the vehicle wasnt parked as alleged but jusrtwaiting or setting down of passenger so there has been no breach of the parking contract"

If they dont cancel then they should provide a code for appealing to an independent assessor and when you get that code you can appeal giving a stronger and more detailed case. We will advise on the wording to defeat most claims.

 

Does this sound about right:

 

I wish to formally appeal as the vehicle was not parked as alleged but just waiting whilst setting down of passengers so there was no breach of the parking contract.

 

At no time was the vehicle left unattended or parked therefore I would expect you to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.

 

For this reason I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled.

[DragonFly1967]

It's not a PENALTY Charge Notice but a Parking Charge Notice. By referring to is a Penalty Charge, you're giving it far more than it deserves.

 

 

Something else interesting has just cropped up.

 

Excel are shown on the IPC website as members of that bunch of Parking Cowboys. HOWEVER!!!

 

Taking a look at their website, it claims that they're also members (and shows the logo for) the BPA! I wonder if that means that you could demand a POPLA code rather than having to 'appeal' to the IPC's IAS. They (POPLA) aren't angels by any means, but they're a lot more independent than the IAS that's offered by the IPC and would certainly be the lesser of two evils.

 

This page http://excelparkingservices.co.uk/appeals/ also refers to POPLA (doesn't mention IPC/IAS at all). Mixed messages or what

 

Naming the driver would take the risk of the Recorded Keeper becoming involved out of the equation, which might be the better idea in your particular circumstances.

[Zipadidoodah]

But the moment I reply via email or letter they have my details.

 

 

I can't ignore it as fleet lease will escalate it through my wife's company.

Catch 22 situation it seems

[DragonFly1967]

That's what I meant. By naming yourself (or your wife) as the driver at the time, you're taking the lease company out of the picture. Problem solved.

[Zipadidoodah]

That's what I meant. By naming yourself (or your wife) as the driver at the time, you're taking the lease company out of the picture. Problem solved.

 

Sorry my misunderstanding. How does the wording sound to you?

[DragonFly1967]

Apart from the one correction I suggested, it's as good as any. They'll reject it anyway, it's the POPLA code that you need

[armadillo71]

There will be no POPLA code. Excel are members of the IPC ATA and AOS.

 

They can still be members of the BPA, just not their AOS. ( They may not be, but they can be!)

 

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Join

 

I agree the OP has to name the driver as it is a company car, but obviously the appeals process is very dubious with IPC members...

[Zipadidoodah]

finally replied to my appeal.

 

 

I wrote to them on 30th March and received a letter back today 29th April.

 

 

They tell me that 'Parking" is leaving your vehicle attended or unattended stationed within the car park or parking spot.

 

 

Obviously they have rejected my appeal.

The also go into quite a length to explain the number of signs and height etc and will not accept any further appeals!

 

They have given me the appeals process of IAS not POPLA

- even though as mentioned before they use the BPA logo other website amongst many others - can anyone help me craft a worded letter to help out??

 

They have even acknowledged I was looking after a "sick Child" (their words) and are still wanting to pursue me

 

They also state that

" We are proceeding on the reasonable assumption that you were the drive of the vehicle on the date in question unless you are able to prove the contrary."

Does this mean that they are presuming guilt unless I prove I am innocent??

[renegadeimp]

Theyre nothing more than cowboy clampers. They cant do anything and they know it. It wont stop them harassing you though.

 

Also:

 

We are proceeding on the reasonable assumption that you were the drive of the vehicle on the date in question unless you are able to prove the contrary.

 

Really? Total bunch of monkeys.

[DragonFly1967]

Time to have a bit of fun with them.

 

Write back to them and tell them that they've made an error and referred you to the wrong trade body.

 

You'd now like the charge cancelled or for them to issue you with a valid and correctly issued POPLA code, as per their own website http://excelparkingservices.co.uk/appeals/ (take a screen shot of that).

 

 

That should throw the cat in with the pigeons. If they then tried to take it any further (with the screen shot of that page) you've got cast iron proof that you'd tried to resolve it amicably, but they refused to supply you with their own advertised route of further appeal. IE, POPLA.

[Zipadidoodah]

Dragonfly - you are a legend! I love your attitude

 

 

How does this sound

 

Miss Gabrielle Selman

 

I received a letter yesterday (dated 27th April 2015).

I would like to inform you of an error with referring me to the wrong trade body with regards to my appeal.

 

Within your letter you directed me to IAS.

I would now like the charge cancelled which I think is reasonable or please issue me with a valid and correct POPLA code as per your website - see attached screen grab taken today at 12.25pm

 

I have taken the screen grab and will attach it as per your advice.

 

 

How does this letter sound?

I really do not want to give they any loop hole to get out of!!!!

[DragonFly1967]

That should pretty much do it.

 

They've tied themselves in knots, so it pretty much leaves them with nowhere else to go but to cancel it. You might get some nasty letters from their pet debt collector, but I'd wager that that will be about as far as it goes.

 

 

If they were then stupid enough to go down the court route, you've got all the proof that you need that they didn't give you access to their own, advertised, route of further appeal.

 

Make sure that you keep that image safe, just in case

 

I'd also put money on that web page being changed by the end of the day upon which they get your letter, so I reckon you're going to be the last to beat them on these grounds.

[Zipadidoodah]

I will let you know the outcome - Thanks again

[Zipadidoodah]

I have received a reply today.

 

 

The letter says that they operate to the IPC scheme a

nd POPLA does not apply even though today on their website they state

 

Should you make an appeal and it is unsuccessful, you will have the option to appeal to the Parking On Private Land Appeal (POPLA) service which is an independent body.

 

If appropriate, relevant details of the process you would need to follow for POPLA will be notified to you at the time we notify you of our appeal decision.

 

They have as a goodwill gesture re-set the time frame to appeal within 21 days???!!??

And I am to appeal to the IAS??!??

Whatever that is?

 

 

The letter is confusing and I am not sure what to do as they state they are IPC accredited

but I am to appeal to the IAS but their website says I can appeal to POPLA - what should I do??

[ericsbrother]

their goodwill gesture is for their benefit and they know it, they have issued their notices too late.

 

 

Did you get a full demand from these people once you had been identified as the driver

or have they relied on the details passed on by the hire co and just taken it from there?

 

Schedule 4 of the PoFA protects the keeper from action when they make these screw ups but in your case they can bypass the appeals service and go after you as the driver.

 

 

they will have to reach a quite high threshold as regarding their evidence so it is up to you as you how you play this.

 

You could appeal to the IAS and tell them that the parking co have failed to meet the conditions of the PoFA in para 7 regarding notification and also you demand the evidence of the right to claim under Para 5 so you require sight of the contract between the landowner and Excel.

 

 

You also deny that you were parked there but merely passing through.

You can also state that Excel's losses are published as a tariff on their signage so £1.20 is the most that they can claim in damages so you demand to know where they get the figure of their invoice from.

 

Gladstones (IAS) wont answer these points in their adjudication,

nor will they use any points of law to make their determination

so I wouldnt worry about the end result anyway,

it is just a method of showing that you have been showing good faith and they haven't.

 

Keep the screen shot as evidence along with their letter.

it rather ruins their chances of a successful claim as will the failure to answer the points about their right to claim.

[Zipadidoodah]

They have always dated their letters within 28 days exactly.

Although dated 28th May and arrived on 1st June (3 days for 1st class post - not inc sunday!!!)

 

So not sure if they have run out of time.

 

I have never admitted to being the driver just stated that my wife was in the car attending to our poorly baby.

 

 

I have screen shots on both dates showing that they state I can go through popla

- although their letters state I cannot.

Should I raise a case with IAS then or will this harm my defence?

 

Any help?

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

If you want to appeal, you need to figure out who to by finding out which 'club' Excel are members of - is it on their website? It could be that the website hasn't been updated about POPLA.

 

If you look at IAS and IPC on this stikky, things might become slightly clearer.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?168275-Posting-in-this-Forum-please-read

 

HB

[Zipadidoodah]

I have challenged them as they state on their website that they use POPLA but they claim in their letter they use IPC. I wanted to know if this was means for them to be challenged on an what is my course of action?