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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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3.9% APR loan is misleading?

Guest Patry
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Guest Patry

I'm new to this site and came across it whilst trying to see what else I could do about what I see as extreme unfairness from HSBC.

I have been their client for the last 9 1/2 years. I had also had an account at a young age with the old Midland bank.

Through online banking I saw they were doing this amazing personal loan at 3.9% APR. Since I have a credit card with them which I must admit I am paying a very high rate (increased from 18.9% to 21.1% or around that - unsure of amounts) I thought I'd take a loan and clear off the card plus take a holiday since their low APR is for loans from £7k to £15k. I was looking at borrowing £8k during 36 months.

So I was brave and applied for it online. It told me I had to contact the bank by telephone. I did. After asking me a few question (eg. what the loan was for) they said it had been approved but the rate was 9.9% APR. I queried it and was told that that was it. I asked if they could put it in writing and was told no. Seems they can only put in writing if I had accepted the offer.

Anyway... I went to my local branch and asked who I could complain to and explained the situation. I was told to join experian or equifax. I joined experian and my credit score was showing as excellent at 965. The only downside on it was a credit score check by HSBC which meant when they checked it was even higher.

My only debt is to HSBC and is that c/card. I have never missed a payment on anything nor with anyone. Seeing that the loan is to clear the card then that would vanish from the account anyway.

After checking with Experian I tried applying again and was told to contact them again.

I decided to email them. Found a customer care team email address. Emailed them. Had no reply for a couple of days so sent them a message on online banking asking why no reply. Was told that they "never received said message". Asked me to email again which I did and had an email confirming receipt but no other reply so far.

I have also sent a complaint to the financial ombudsman. Just saw on the forum they don't see to be as helpful as I first thought.

I keep being told by HSBC that the APR they offer is due to "several factors". All I want to be told is "this is the main reason why we offer a higher rate" or "if you change this then we can revise the offer".

Just feels like they are offering the higher APR as then I won't be paying the ridiculous interest I'm currently paying (around £55-£60 per month just interest). It feels like they are saying that since they will not get as much from me then they will charge me more.

Without me asking they increased my c/card limit to £6.5k. For them to do that they know I will repay that amount and likely a high interest amount. If they are confortable enough to do that then why charge me such a higher rate?

Are they misleading customers? I had another friend who has no debt at all and applied and had the same answer as me.

Is there any way they can actually prove they have offered this rate in good faith?

It truly doesn't feel like it. It feels like they refuse to discuss the subject and suggest any positive solution to what I'm querying.

I am currently waiting a response from the customer care team and from the Financial ombudsman but seems like I shouldn't hold my breath.

If there any place I can complain if I truly feel they are misleading customers? It feels they hold out a sign saying an excellent deal here but then it's all fake.

I'm sorry it is such a long post but am truly at a loss on what else to do.

I'd appreciate any help or advice if possible.

Thank you

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Usually in their advert's small print it says that the apr is subject to credit factors or something similar.

This gives them the right to apply any apr they want.

As long as one person (their employee?) gets the advertised 3.9%, they're ok.

World of banks...

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Usually in their advert's small print it says that the apr is subject to credit factors or something similar.

This gives them the right to apply any apr they want.

As long as one person (their employee?) gets the advertised 3.9%, they're ok.

World of banks...


That isn't how it works. The 3.9% APR is described as a representative rate meaning that AT LEAST 51% of successful applicants will get the headline 3.9% rate.

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That isn't how it works. The 3.9% APR is described as a representative rate meaning that AT LEAST 51% of successful applicants will get the headline 3.9% rate.



How do they measure that?

Is it a target that they have to achieve by the end of the deal or something fictitious i.e. Theoretically 51% of the population would get this apr but only the non eligible applied?

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What I said above was a simplified explanation. The actual requirement (thanks to the EU Consumer Credit Directive in 2011) is that "the representative APR must reflect at least 51% of business expected to result from the advertisement".


So HSBC would have to make these estimates/expectations before the advert/campaign is actually run and they would use data from previous promotions etc. to make these estimates.

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Guest Patry

This is indeed a tricky one. I hope the Financial Ombudsman can try and see if the advertisement was possible. I have to say that seeing my current status and seeing another friend who applied and was also given a 9.9%APR then it's unlikely they are offering this rate much. A guy at the local HSBC said that since my friend had the Advance account then he would certainly be accepted.... It didn't work out that way... Would be curious to see what results people have had when applying for this offer. I'll have to wait for reply from the customer care team from HSBC and for the financial ombudsman. They said I should expect a reply within 3 weeks... Let's keep fingers crossed...

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