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MW35

Appeal tribunal tomorrow...(ESA). Absolutely bricking it. - ** WON **

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Appeal tribunal tomorrow...(ESA). Absolutely bricking it, haven't been able to sleep in days with the stress, feel much more stressed than the actual ATOS exam, keep reading the forum and see people taking representatives with them, what's that all about as I was unaware I know it's too late but what do they mean by representative, as it's only myself and my mother going.

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Have you read the forum sticky? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-Appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

Some people get welfare rights/CAB etc to help and sometimes get a rep to go with them, but there aren't many about any more.

 

Good luck!


RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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keep reading the forum and see people taking representatives with them, what's that all about as I was unaware I know it's too late but what do they mean by representative, as it's only myself and my mother going.

 

It's a bit like trying to defend yourself in a court or having a good quality barrister with you doing the job.

These representatives are another name for experienced welfare rights officers who actually do know how to do their job quite well. The results of cases can be quite astounding. From memory you are almost twice as likely to get the result you are hoping for if you have someone representing you.

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MW35, I didn't have a rep, my OH went to the tribunal with me. The forum stikky is based on my experience and I won. :)

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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MW35, I didn't have a rep, my OH went to the tribunal with me. The forum stikky is based on my experience and I won. :)

 

HB

You did quite well then, I am pleased for you.

However you must remember that not everyone is able to control a tribunal hearing from the point of view of the Appellant. You have to be convincing in your arguments, understand when and if questions are raised that are necessary or material. At best you would have to demonstrate some knowledge of court procedure.

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You did quite well then, I am pleased for you.

However you must remember that not everyone is able to control a tribunal hearing from the point of view of the Appellant. You have to be convincing in your arguments, understand when and if questions are raised that are necessary or material. At best you would have to demonstrate some knowledge of court procedure.

 

I'm sorry, that wasn't how my tribunal was. It was professional yet relaxed and nothing like as formal as a court. The panel of a chairman who I believe was a lawyer and a doctor asked me questions and I answered them truthfully. We had also prepared a submission based on the forum stikky to hand to the panel.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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There is absolutely no requirement for knowledge of court procedure.

 

In my experience, tribunals are interested in making the most appropriate decision based upon the evidence and information available. They are a lot less formal than court proceedings.

 

My mother in law and I attended an ESA tribunal for my father in law last year. My father in law did not attend. The panel consisted of a chair who was a solictior and a doctor. They only asked a few questions and after 5 minutes allowed the appeal. The DWP rarely attend the hearing.

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:MW35:

 

As moral support I've been to several tribunals for employment n support and disability living. The Tribunals Service isn't perfect, judges can have an off day. But honeybee13's sticky and the video below reflect my experience of tribunals over three different venues.

 

 

It's not a chat round the kitchen table, but it's not a formal court either. And since the demise of legal aid for first tier tribunals most appellants manage perfectly well without legal representatives. Cos the best person to explain how your condition limits your day to day life (how far you can walk/wheel without getting breathless, hiding under the duvet, or whatever) is you. :thumb:

 

Sincerely, Margaret. :panda:

 

 

 

 

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I agree, Margaret panda. :)

 

MW35, hugs for tomorrow.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thanks all for the support I let you know tomorrow fingers crossed, my problem is I don't know if I'll be able to follow the pile of paperwork I'm supposed to take, and if I do they will think I'm to mentally alert to be suffering from depression and anxiety, just gone over the paperwork with my mother, half of the stuff ATOS put down I was never asked, stressed at the moment is an understatement.

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it may help if you or your mother make notes of the things you want to raise or the page numbers of any of the evidence you want to focus on

 

good luck


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:MW35:

 

The usual format of a tribunal is that the panel ask the questions and the appellant answers them. Very unlikely that they'll go through the ESA85 and Jobcentreplus paperwork page by page. As id6052 says, few notes for anything you want to clarify or refute. Each issue; concentration, memory, why you can't do whatever Atos claim you can, on a separately headed sheet. And let your Mum mind the paperwork while you focus on the questions.

 

Most tribunal panels are well used to nervous appellants and will take the hearing at your pace.

 

:grouphug: Margaret.

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I'm sorry, that wasn't how my tribunal was. It was professional yet relaxed and nothing like as formal as a court. The panel of a chairman who I believe was a lawyer and a doctor asked me questions and I answered them truthfully. We had also prepared a submission based on the forum stikky to hand to the panel.

 

HB

 

Well there must be differences up and down the country. We lodged an appeal involving Council Tax Benefit a few years back. It took three adjournments and two years before the case came to court where the Chairman/Judge gave directions to both parties (us and the LA) to supply better & further particulars along with details of which stated cases and court decisions we were to rely on with regards to our appeal. We managed to get legal representation via a Law Clinic from the local university (one of the lecturers represented us). During the hearing, we were both completely lost after about 5 mins. I have never heard so many legal arguments being raised and challenged. We won, but the LA have now given notice that they have leave to appeal to the Upper Tribunal. That will be another story no doubt.

 

 

So without that professional backing we would not have won anything never mind be able to argue our own case.

 

 

It was an argument on how Regulation 50 should be interpreted for what was Council Tax Benefit.

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Well there must be differences up and down the country. We lodged an appeal involving Council Tax Benefit a few years back. It took three adjournments and two years before the case came to court where the Chairman/Judge gave directions to both parties (us and the LA) to supply better & further particulars along with details of which stated cases and court decisions we were to rely on with regards to our appeal. We managed to get legal representation via a Law Clinic from the local university (one of the lecturers represented us). During the hearing, we were both completely lost after about 5 mins. I have never heard so many legal arguments being raised and challenged. We won, but the LA have now given notice that they have leave to appeal to the Upper Tribunal. That will be another story no doubt.

 

 

So without that professional backing we would not have won anything never mind be able to argue our own case.

 

 

It was an argument on how Regulation 50 should be interpreted for what was Council Tax Benefit.

 

It's not so much differences up and down the country as differences in the nature of the appeal. Most ESA LCW appeals don't hinge on complex questions of law. I'd never tell anyone not to seek advice or representation, but plenty of people manage and are successful without it. Certainly, an understanding of court procedure is not a requirement for such an appeal.


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When I had my first ESA Tribunal I thought I needed representation. I had a member of the CAB represent me. This was a huge mistake. He was absolutely and totally useless. He didn't utter a single word and I wish to goodness I'd had no representation. Needless to say I lost the tribunal. So don't get hung up about representing yourself. Sometimes the so called experts really aren't expert at all. Good luck.

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Good luck today, MW. Do your best and be yourself. And don't try to be too brave, they could see that as coping.

 

Please let us know how it goes.

 

Hugs, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Good luck today.

 

I had my DLA tribnal last year (ok, DLA isn't quite the same ESA; but I understand the tribunal is the same) and DIAC refused to represent me because they believed I would lose. In fact, they went as far to say I was lying on my forms! Anyway, I received a lot of advice on here, went to tribunal and won with a lot of help from people on here.

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That was the most stressful experience of my life and I'm not kidding, the doctor asked me questions for only about 5-10 minutes then the judge asked a lot more questions, he said I looked awful down then started asking my mother questions about my condition, I couldn't take anymore and walked out I was that stressed,

they said to my mother they would let me know in the post, i probably blew it but I couldn't take it anymore.

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You probably didn't. Unfortunately some Tribunals prefer to let people know by post so you just have to try and be patient for a couple of days. Fingers crossed.

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Too late now. But for reference for others reading who may face an appeal down the road, the most important thing in my experience (as an appeals rep) is the prep work - the submission arguing the descriptors and condition and the supporting evidence collected prior to hearing, and also preparing the appellant on how best to handle common questions. If the prep work is done well, then the rep needs to say very little on the day at an ESA hearing. With a little guidance, most can prepare their own cases successfully for ESA.

 

If you have a rep and they haven't collected evidence on your behalf, and prepared a submission and had a pre hearing meeting with you, then you're not getting a good service - sadly this happens more and more due to the pressures on the underfunded services now that legal aid funding has been withdrawn.

 

Other types of appeals where the area of law is more complex are different - but again much of the work is done in advance, though there can be more arguing why one UT decision applies than another, and the hearing can get heated where there has been shenanigans in the decision making by the DWP or LA.


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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I WON !!!.. Can't believe it I feel as though a weight has been lifted off my shoulders, I scored 27 points and after walking out I fought I blew it but clearly not, thank you all so so much for your help and advice, so glad I listened and went for the appeal.

Thanks MW35

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really pleased for you


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Yay, that's excellent! Well done you, it was all worth it, wasn't it?

 

I'll amend your thread title. :)

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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... i probably blew it ...

You probably didn't. ...

So pleased to read your news. Now sit back, relax, and think of the back payments. (They'll take a few weeks to get to you but who cares at this precise moment?)

:cheer2:

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