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    • Proportional representation would be a start, but I can't see the Conservatives voting for that now they've redrawn the constituency boundaries to suit themselves. Turkeys, Christmas and all that.
    • Sorry to hear about your problem, it's horrible when people take advantage like that.   I don't want to add to your woes, but road tax is not transferrable to a new owner so when he said 'road tax is paid so I have not to worry', he was wrong. See here:   https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle   The last thing you need right now is another problem, so I'd either take the car off the road and make a SORN declaration or tax it as soon as possible. If you are planning on making life difficult for the seller then don't be surprised if he reports you for no tax!   I hope it all works out for you.
    • I recently purchased some wheels on eBay which were located at the other end of the country. The seller was happy for me to arrange a courier to collect them and I paid him for them.   I put a request for some quotes on Shiply and accepted one from a company with plenty of positive feedback, who claimed to be insured and would only take payment once the item was delivered. I paid a deposit of £8 immediately via PayPal.   Shortly after this, I recieved a message from the courier saying that because of Coronavirus they were no longer accepting payment at the door on delivery and would instead require payment by bank transfer two days before delivery. I paid the remaining fee of £44 as requested.   The day before delivery, I get a message from the seller say that he thinks the courier has collected the wrong items. I contact them immediately, and yes, they have collected the wrong items. They tell me that the seller was not present when they collected but had left a message at his works reception directing them to collect those items (the wrong ones). After I point out that they are wrong, they stop texting back.   I then get a message from the seller asking for my phone number so that we can figure out what to do. I send it, but have heard nothing from him since.   Today, while I was out, the courier has delivered the wrong items to my house an hour earlier than expected and my son has accepted them.   So, I wonder how to sort this out...   No doubt the courier will argue that they have done as directed and are not to blame. The seller will argue that he did not leave such a message/the courier misunderstood and he is not to blame either. So I get the sinking feeling that I will end up having to foot the bill for the wrong items to be returned AND the right ones to be delivered - only tripling the delivery cost!   Any suggestions??
    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
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      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
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Hi all.

 

3 weeks ago Rundles sent me a "notice of enforcement".

 

They said I owed council tax from 2010/11.

 

We had been under the impression our landlord was paying it, which was incorrect.

I cannot find a copy of my tenancy from this date to prove this, however, so accept I must pay it.

However, this is the first contact I have had in 5 years.

 

Rundles refuse to provide me with a copy of the liability order or any relevant documents showing what we owe etc.

 

Rather than provide a copy they have just proceeded to threaten a removal of goods , "with or without" us present.

 

Am I right in thinking I have a right to proof of the debt etc. from them?

 

Also, had we been aware the LL wasn't paying, we would have applied for council tax benefit for which we would have been entitled.

 

 

Is there anything we can do about this now?

 

Thanks in advance for all help

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I guess that you no longer live at that address and where you have now moved to has a different Council which would perhaps explain the delay in contacting you.

 

Have you contacted the Council involved since they would know how much the Liability Order was for 5 years ago? How long did you stay at that property and

did bailiffs try to contact you while you were there?

Since the Rundles letter {NOE} have they called round as that will incur a charge of £235 if they are charging you under the new legisaltion?

 

It may be that the LO was issued under your old address so that is something else you must find out from the Council. They should also be able to give you a breakdown of any bailiff fees incurred since the LO was first issued.

 

Most tenancies tend to have the tenant pay the Council tax and you will probably have learnt that yourself now if you have had further tenancies.

Council benefit is normally backdated by a maximum of 6 months so 5 years would be stretching it.

 

You do need to contact the Council urgently if you haven't done so already. What else have you done in the past three weeks to resolve the matter? Time is not

on your side.

In the meantime, do not open your door to the bailiffs and make sure that if you have a car you keep it a good ten minutes away from your property as they may

well clamp it.

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Here is something to be getting on with.

.

First of all establish from the Council how much was owing etc

.

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

...........................

.

Next you need to send off for a breakdown of the charges the Bailiff applied.

.

Here's an example,

use and ADAPT at will and best sent initially by email backed up by a copy in the post.

.

"From:

My Name

My Address

.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

.

Ref: Account No: 123456

.

Dear Sir

.

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

.

This is NOT a Subject Access Request

uest under the Data Protection Act S7 1998

so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

.

I require this information within 14 days.

.

Yours faithfully

.

Ripped off customer"

.

 

 

and just to re-assure you

 

 

there is NO right of forced entry for CTAX 'debts'

 

 

so don't fall for that old crap.

 

 

sadly rundles can be rather 'economical' with the truth.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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The removal of goods even in your absence would be anything of value in a garden or a car outside. as previously stated they cannot force entry for Council tax at this stage anyway.

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Hi all.

 

3 weeks ago Rundles sent me a "notice of enforcement".

 

They said I owed council tax from 2010/11.

 

We had been under the impression our landlord was paying it, which was incorrect. I cannot find a copy of my tenancy from this date to prove this, however, so accept I must pay it. However, this is the first contact I have had in 5 years.

 

Rundles refuse to provide me with a copy of the liability order or any relevant documents showing what we owe etc.

 

Rather than provide a copy they have just proceeded to threaten a removal of goods , "with or without" us present.

 

Am I right in thinking I have a right to proof of the debt etc. from them?

 

Also, had we been aware the LL wasn't paying, we would have applied for council tax benefit for which we would have been entitled.

 

Thanks in advance for all help

 

A Liability Order is not a document that is actually sent to a debtor and the enforcement company will not receive it either. Instead, the enforcement company are sent by electronic means a list of all Liability Orders granted by the court, the debtor's details and the amount of the LO.

 

A Liability Order is not 'statute barred' (although a recent ruling has made significant changes in this area and is causing great difficult to local authorities) and in an event, the debt in your case is only 5 years old (which is actually quite recent from enquiries that are seen).

 

I would strongly suggest that you take the advice of others on here and approach the council with any evidence you have that would support your belief that you would have been exempt from CT at that time. Some councils are better then others and will be willing to backdate the application. The only way of finding out is to ask.

 

Rundles (like all enforcement companies) are duty bound to enforce the warrant on behalf of the creditor (in this case the local authority) and any dispute about the debt is not theirs...but the local authority who instruct them.

 

Please do post back once you have spoken with the council.

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It is worth pointing out that the council have a hierarchy of liability they have to follow to decide who should be pursued for unpaid council tax. Even if you have an agreement that shows the landlord has to pay, if they subsequently do not pay the council will have to pursue whoever is at the top of the hierarchy which will usually be the occupant. In other words even if they sympathise with you it may be that he law says you have to pay. Below is some wording copied from the CAB website about this point:-

 

 

"If only one person lives in a property they will be the liable person. If more than one person lives there, a system called the hierarchy of liability is used to work out who is the liable person. The person at the top, or nearest to the top, of the hierarchy is the liable person. Two people at the same point of the hierarchy will both be liable.

The hierarchy of liability is:

 

  1. a resident owner-occupier who owns either the leasehold or freehold of all or part of the property
  2. a resident tenant
  3. a resident who lives in the property and who is a licensee. This means that they are not a tenant, but have permission to stay there
  4. any resident living in the property, for example, a squatter
  5. an owner of the property where no one is resident."

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It is worth pointing out that the council have a hierarchy of liability they have to follow to decide who should be pursued for unpaid council tax. Even if you have an agreement that shows the landlord has to pay, if they subsequently do not pay the council will have to pursue whoever is at the top of the hierarchy which will usually be the occupant. In other words even if they sympathise with you it may be that he law says you have to pay. Below is some wording copied from the CAB website about this point:-

 

 

"If only one person lives in a property they will be the liable person. If more than one person lives there, a system called the hierarchy of liability is used to work out who is the liable person. The person at the top, or nearest to the top, of the hierarchy is the liable person. Two people at the same point of the hierarchy will both be liable.

The hierarchy of liability is:

 

 

  1. a resident owner-occupier who owns either the leasehold or freehold of all or part of the property
  2. a resident tenant
  3. a resident who lives in the property and who is a licensee. This means that they are not a tenant, but have permission to stay there
  4. any resident living in the property, for example, a squatter
  5. an owner of the property where no one is resident."

 

This is interesting. I have read similar previously where guarantors are involved, but not in exactly the same context. With the guarantor situation it was a contractual term in the tenancy agreement, and in a household of 6 there was a nominated lead tenant. Where does the council draw its right from to assert a heirarchy if the tenancy agreement specifies the landlord is responsible for paying the council tax?

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Not so much a right, more a responsibility or obligation.

 

 

It arises out of the Local Government Finance Act 1992 which is the Act which was used to create the Council Tax. Paragraph 6 starts as follows.

 

 

6 Persons liable to pay council tax.

(1)The person who is liable to pay council tax in respect of any chargeable dwelling and any day is the person who falls within the first paragraph of subsection (2) below to apply, taking paragraph (a) of that subsection first, paragraph (b) next, and so on.

(2)A person falls within this subsection in relation to any chargeable dwelling and any day if, on that day—

(a)he is a resident of the dwelling and has a freehold interest in the whole or any part of it;

(b)he is such a resident and has a leasehold interest in the whole or any part of the dwelling which is not inferior to another such interest held by another such resident;

©he is both such a resident and a statutory [secure or introductory tenant]of the whole or any part of the dwelling;

(d)he is such a resident and has a contractual licence to occupy the whole or any part of the dwelling;

(e)he is such a resident; or

(f)he is the owner of the dwelling.

(3)Where, in relation to any chargeable dwelling and any day, two or more persons fall within the first paragraph of subsection (2) above to apply, they shall each be jointly and severally liable to pay the council tax in respect of the dwelling and that day.

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Hi,

Apologies, I had trouble locating my post again.

 

I have spoken to the council involved who have frozen bailiff action and sent me a copy of the liability order.

 

I received no contact from the council or the bailiffs whilst at the property, and all council tax letter were sent to my landlord, so we're forwarded to him.

 

The council have admitted they didn't attempt to contact me at all with regards to council tax until after I had left the property.

 

I offered to come to a payment arrangement with the council but they refused and insist I must go through Rundles,

but I was informed that Rundles will not make a payment arrangement unless I allow them to put a levy on my goods.

 

I have been on the electoral roll at all addresses and my landlord had a forwarding address,

so there's really no excuse for them to have sent letters to my old address.

 

They also claim that they were fully aware that, when they started writing to me at the old address, I was no longer living there.

 

I am more than happy to come to an arrangement with them,

although I am annoyed as the landlord clearly didn't notify them until after I had left

as he knew I would have pulled him up on it with a copy of the tenancy agreement at the time stating he would pay.

 

Had he just been honest from the outset then I could have applied for CT benefit at the time,

which would have maybe halved the amount we owed as we were both working but on a low wage.

 

As I say, I'd happily make an arrangement with the countil, but I do not want the bailiffs involved as I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them,

and do NOT want a levy on my goods.

 

Had the council contacted me directly I would have sorted something out,

I think it's unfair they've gone in all guns blazing rather than going

"oh, we have an address now, let's contact the debtors directly".

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I offered to come to a payment arrangement with the council but they refused and insist I must go through Rundles, but I was informed that Rundles will not make a payment arrangement unless I allow them to put a levy on my goods.

 

 

 

Did the above comment come from Rundles or the local authority?

 

This is NOT correct and I am not happy to hear that debtors are being told this information.

 

The fact is that a payment arrangement can be made without a levy being made upon goods.

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  • 1 month later...

That came from Rundles who said they would need to see what valuables we have before coming to any agreements.

 

I have today offered to pay them £10 per fortnight (as that is all that circumstances will allow at the moment). They have refused and will continue to refuse anything other than £250 per month (total owed is £1,333.69)

Instead they have threatened to take our vehicle. This is a vehicle worth £160 and used for business purposes.

What can I do?

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That came from Rundles who said they would need to see what valuables we have before coming to any agreements.

 

I have today offered to pay them £10 per fortnight (as that is all that circumstances will allow at the moment). They have refused and will continue to refuse anything other than £250 per month (total owed is £1,333.69)

Instead they have threatened to take our vehicle. This is a vehicle worth £160 and used for business purposes.

What can I do?

It might be time to work out an Income and Expenditure form, showing what is affordable, send it to Brundlefly & co,m to back up your offer, and remind trhem that they are not legally bound to have a Controlled Goods Order to make an arrangement, you could also send a Formal Complaint to Head of Revenues, copied to CEO, Elected Council Leader and your local Councillor, who you should contact for assistance, tell the Councillor, their Agent Bumbles & Co are intransigent, will not set up an affordable agreement and want to remove a vehicle worth £160, which would be counterproductive as it would render you unable to work, need to go on JSA and get the inevitable Sanction that would follow having to stop work and make it impossible to then pay diddly squat.

Edited by brassnecked
correct typos from stupid 'O Clock

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Rundles will be set a time limit on these collections so no, they wont accept a £10 per fortnight arrangement as it will breach the collection contract.

What they will do if the offer is to low, is send an ea out to assess. If the ea deems you to have no goods and no money, then it will be nulla'd off and the council may then look at £10 per fortnight.

 

If the EA thinks you have sufficient assets then he will tell you so and tell you how much he wants per month. If you have nothing, and really cant pay, then don't worry, there is nothing the EA can do. But the council WILL be made aware if you are living a life of luxury but claiming you can pay little or nothing weekly.

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Thank you for all the advice.

I have again tried to speak to Rundles who are just saying 6 months to clear or nothing. This also includes their extortionate fees on top, like fees for hand posting a letter when Royal Mail would suffice (as they didn't knock the door or anything, just posted a letter)

I'm going to try writing directly to the council saying I won't let the bailiffs in and will also be making a complaint about Rundles' threats to remove my property whilst I'm not home.

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Given their continued refusal to accept an affordable repayment plan, it leaves you with little choice but to use an option that was always available to you anyway.

 

I'd keep the EA's out, if you have a car, move it onto somebody else's private land or away from your premises so they can't take control of it and refuse to deal with the EA at all - do absolutely nothing with them.

 

 

Write to the Council saying you're more than willing to pay, but cannot afford to do so at the rate being demanded by their appointed EA's.Thus, you'll be putting the money to a side (make sure you do this), and when the debt is recalled you'll willingly agree a repayment plan with the Council directly.

 

 

Explain you're more than happy to come to an affordable and sustainable repayment plan now , but can only do so once the debt is recalled. They will no doubt state they can't do this, but they can.

 

This letter should be sent to the CEO of the council and copied to the Head of Revenues.

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The council have said that apparently this is the 5th bailiff company they've given the job to, and that if this bailiff company failed to collect, then they'd just move onto the next rather than deal with me themselves.

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