I have issued a Court claim for an incorrect default

[nellyj99]

Turned 18 in October 2008.

 

Opened account with natwest 4 days later.

 

Young and naive I signed up to a monthly chargeable account

 

realising this returned to branch to cancel account within days.

 

In 2011 I started having collection calls so raised a complaint as to my knowledge account was closed and upheld with assurance default will be removed and account closed.

 

All sounded good.

 

default never removed, escalated complaint after exhausting all avenues to CEO office in september 2014.

 

Thourough investigation result will removed default..only last week was the default removed with a 721 compensation which Was amount of default all bank charges. Account never used.

 

Today here we are:

 

Default removed but settlement date is showing 2011. Account closed 2008 as per original upheld complaint.

 

Nat West refusing to remove default date.

 

Spoken to equifax and they have lodge a dispute as account was closed Oct 2014, the account should be removed in line with 6 year reporting and not removing this it will show as a credit account till 2017.

 

NatWest are arguing it has no detrimental affect hover exit say it's a credit account and the more you have the more risk you are.

 

As they upheld my complaint that count was closed do they legally settle the file on the date of initial complaint resolution or the date on complaint 2008 that was upheld.

 

As per equifax if the latter they are now unlawfully reporting data on me as November 2014 was four months ago.

 

Please help

 

And questions please ask

[BankFodder]

Your opening question seems to be which is the best course of action – the ombudsman or the County Court.

 

You need to understand that if you must complain then the ombudsman service is the bank's preferred route. To my mind this is always meant that you should choose the County Court route because this is the one that the bank would prefer that you do not take.

 

Especially when it comes to credit file matters, although the financial ombudsman apparently now has jurisdiction over these matters, I have seen lots of complaints concerning bank problems going to the financial ombudsman where a credit file issue is clearly an element and yet it is ignored by the ombudsman service.

 

An ombudsman complaint can take a long time – over a year and maybe up to 2 years in some circumstances. There is very little transparency because you have no idea what is being said to the ombudsman by the bank and generally speaking the ombudsman wards are minimal and overall the system is half-hearted.

 

If you brought a County Court claim, it would be dealt with relatively quickly. It would force the bank to sit up and take notice and also the whole thing is transparent because you would know exactly what the bank's arguments are and what their replies are to anything you have to say. Furthermore, if you got a County Court judgement against the bank on the basis of BCOBS, this would be a relatively serious matter for the bank and also you could use this as the basis of a complaint to the FCA. The FCA won't do anything but at least it will have to go on their file. A BCOBS action could produce a reasonable level of damages and frankly, if you brought a BCOBS action than I can imagine that the bank will bottle out fairly quickly and try to settle out of court. They properly would want confidentiality. The banks are particulars that in confidentiality when it comes to the ombudsman. They have no real respect for the ombudsman service. It is really just a way of obstructing you and fatiguing you in delaying any particular solution.

 

I gather from what you say in your opening post on this thread that you have got a full set of paperwork to support what you are saying. If there is anything missing, then you should send the bank an SAR. Frankly you should probably send them an SAR anyway.

 

If the bank has incorrectly placed a negative entry on your credit file – then they have breached the Data Protection Act. Also, they would have treated you unfairly and in breach of their statutory duties under BCOBS.

 

If you have all the paperwork then you have a very good basis for bringing these actions and an extremely high chance of success – better than 90%. The result of successful action would be that the entry would be removed in its entirety because clearly it should not have been placed in the first place. Additionally you should have a measure of compensation for the damage to your credit file reputation going back for several years. What we would need to know is how this has affected you.

 

Under the Data Protection Act you can sue for damages not only for actual losses, such as failure to be given credit, more expensive credit, loss of a mortgage opportunity, but also for distress which has been caused to you by the damage to your reputation.

 

If any of this interest you then you need to start off by deciding whether or not you would like to go to the County Court or the ombudsman. If you want to go to the County Court then you need to tell us something about how this unlawful credit for entry has affected you. If you want to go to the ombudsman then the award you would get will scarcely take into account any losses or distress you have suffered – so you scarcely need to bother.

[nellyj99]

Claim was issued Tuesday 24th

[nellyj99]

On Thursday 26th after receiving claim by email all reporting has been removed from all CRA

[BankFodder]

On Thursday 26th after receiving claim by email all reporting has been removed from all CRA

 

Thank you. Does this mean that your credit file is now completely clear.?

[nellyj99]

Calls not recorded but all followed up with correspondence.

 

Losses since October 2014 this has been a daily activity and have interacted daily. have been emailing executive office the SAR fee was waived.

 

i have been unable to open a bank account with natwest as they blacklisted my name which they have now removed.

 

any borrowing i needed was from wonga due to adverse data.

 

defaulf has affected Family as i have a 50% house share but have been unable to obtain loans for home improvements.

 

over last 4 months i have spent in excess of 100 hours on this with some 50 plus emails sent.

 

In a recent job application i had to explain this default to my employer and it was only at employer discretion I had the job.

 

I belive this has been a major cover up with the bank, I'm amazed how as soon as court papers issued all data is removed they don't appear on my credit file anywhere, I have screenshots off all reporting and amendments

 

Also Natwest escalated this complaint to RBS Executive office in January 2015.

[BankFodder]

Is amount of default x number of years reported and also admin a fair summary of losses. As claim submitted I only have 5000 to play with although I have read somewhere judge can make own award for damages

No it is not. Your losses have to be set out in a detailed way and they have to be convincing and if they look excessive at all then they will have to be supported by evidence.

 

The purpose of bringing any kind of civil action is to compensate you for your actual losses. Simply picking a general sort of figure out of the sky and saying well that's it for five years and therefore equals XXX, simply won't do.

 

You must justify your losses and even though you you are right in every other aspect of your claim, if you're not able to justify the value of your claim then although you may win on the principle, you will not get the damages you want. In an extreme case, the judge might even consider that you've been wasting the court's time and the defendants might make an application for costs. Normally speaking in the small claims, no costs are awarded. However where it is considered that the claimant has behaved unreasonably for instance by not accepting a reasonable figure in settlement, the judge does have discretion to award costs or some costs.

 

The judge only has discretion to award damages within the limits you have set. The rule in civil procedure is that if you ask then maybe you can get it. If you don't ask you don't get.

 

The only time that the judge might have discretion to award more is where there are punitive or exemplary damages and this would not apply here. Punitive or exemplary damages might be awarded in cases of trespass where the claimant is being compensated for the insult – or maybe the aggravated insult to his rights over property or over his own person.

 

I'm very sorry that we are trying to paste over the problems that you have caused by beginning your action without discussing it with us and without getting proper advice.

 

The losses that you refer to – meaning daily activity and interaction daily and emails et cetera, are not sufficiently detailed. You need to understand that judges are very suspicious of anything which looks like a money grab.

 

You will actually have to come out with a realistic estimate of the amount of correspondence that you have conducted with them, the number of telephone calls et cetera. If you have been involved in an email exchange then you must have records of this and you should refer to those. If you have been involved in telephone exchanges, then if you have made the telephone calls then you will have a record of this either on your mobile phone bills or on your landline bills. If you have been on the receiving end of calls then you will have to make as reasonable estimate as possible – but don't go over the top because of course the other side will have their records and they may challenge you.

 

You will have to give a reasonable account of the conversations you have had et cetera. I suppose that you haven't kept any logs – but then I suppose that you never read our customer services guide when you started dealing with these people. I hope you read it for the future because it will save you a lot of hassle.

 

If you have been unable to obtain loans for home improvements, then this is very serious and this is worth a decent bit of compensation. However you will have to provide evidence of these refusals. This means that if you can show application forms that you have completed and correspondence refusing you alone. Also, if you can access your credit file and show that there are markers on it which indicate that you have been refused credit.

 

Was your credit file clean before all this started? Have you got any other markers? If your credit file was in trouble anyway and it might not be possible to say that your troubles were caused simply by the bank. On the other hand if your credit file was clean, then it will be easy to say that the bank is entirely responsible and therefore should pay all of the compensation.

 

I'm very sorry that you cannot approach this in the rather generalised way that you seem to be using. If you have suffered the losses then there is a decent bit of compensation to be had out of this. It is worth taking the trouble to do a proper job.

[mch1991]

£5,000 is far in excess of what you'll be rewarded. I know of a case where a business man was pursued by Lowell Portfolio Ltd for a debt he never had. This judgement is available through a litigation specialist (Esue) should you wish to read it.

 

He was awarded under £3,000 in damages for both incorrect data being recorded on his credit file by Lowell Portfolio Ltd and damages arising under s.3(1) of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

His financial reputation was an important part of his career, not to mention the harassment encountered through letters and phone calls from Lowell Portfolio Ltd.

 

What I'm saying is, you need to itemise your losses appropriately, in his particulars of claim the figure claimed was quoted as "above £1,500 but below £3,000". This range gave the judge and opportunity to issue judgment for what he deemed as appropriate losses.

 

Maybe you should consider claiming for between £2,000 and no more than £5,000. What you're effectively showing is that you are not sure what your claim is worth, but have given the judge discretion to consider damages between a set amount.

 

Good luck.

[nellyj99]

Four days after turning 18 I opened a bank account with natwest. This was done in branch I was young and naive and sold an advantage gold account which was chargeable at 12 per month. All was explained great apart from the fact of excess and limited insurance covers.

 

I closed the account within cooling off action.

 

In 2009 I had numerous collections calls which natwest will not provide dates of under the SAR.

 

On each call they were told of my dispute.

Letters for demand were posted to a neighbours address.

 

I must stress the charges were for 721 yet I never activated the card.

 

In 2009 they recorded a default even though account was in dispute trying to say charges were justified.

 

In 2009 I had acceptance of the banks error and a letter confirming all adverse data will be removed.

 

All happened was the fault was marked as settled so still being reported.

 

I raised further complaints to be told you have had a final response refer to F'S. I was 19.

 

In 2011 being 21 I needed a loan for home improvements or finance with ffs for furniture all declined due to default.

 

In 2011 I had a further complaint upheld stating default removal was not actioned correctly however they need written statement I wanted to close account with my signiture this was sent 4 tines recorded delivery before actioned. Final response issued with 150 cheque promising internal action will be taken to stop this reoccurring and she will removed the adverse data.

 

2014 at 24 I need to get 30000 mortgage this default is impairing me aswell as a minor CCJ for 400 which was obtained in default and is statue barred in May.

 

NatWest since November 2014 till February 2015 executive office have resolved this eventually after daily emails

 

Only when a case was raised by experian was this eventually sorted.

 

 

Other info

 

I had to explain this to secure a job

 

Lending has been at a higher rate

 

Have used companies such as bright house

 

All other bank accounts are well managed and reported

 

Four times natwest have assured me things have been resolved each time they had not.

 

Please feel free to ask further questions

[BankFodder]

Thank you. This information is very interesting and very useful. In fact it now shows that their data protection breaches are more serious than you have intimated – and so we will amend the particulars of claim to show this.

 

You refer to "numerous calls" – you really need to give an estimate of how many. Are you talking about 10, 20, 30?

You say that they refused to give details of the dates of the calls. Do you have this in writing?

Have you got the incorrectly addressed letters of demand? Has an SAR produced evidence that they had your incorrect address on their files?

The recording of a default on your file in respect of a disputed account is contrary to information Commissioner guidelines published in about 2008. This then also is a breach of the data protection act.

Have you still got the correspondence from the bank showing that they admit to the error and also the action they going to take?

Is there any evidence of the refusal of a loan for home improvements? To whom did you apply for the loan?

 

When you are refused for the loan, what did you do about getting the furniture that you needed?

 

Have you got the correspondence relating to their 2011 request for a written statement of closure?

 

Did you catch the £150 cheque? Did you sign anything if you did cache it – did you say it was in full and final settlement or anything? Have you get me copies of anything that you signed for this cheque?

 

How many emails are there? Have you still got the copies of them? If so then you should be able to list out how many they were and also the dates. This will be necessary when building up a case for compensation.

You say that lending has been at a higher rate. Have you got any evidence of this? Have you got any evidence of the loans that you have taken out?

 

Have you got evidence of dealings with Bright house?

 

The information that you have given here is extremely useful and will help your case enormously.

 

However, you really haven't given us an impact statement outlining the stress and the difficulties that you have experienced trying to deal with this. We really do need an estimate of the amount of correspondence, the number of emails, the number of phone calls, the time you have spent. Also, the impact on your life and also the impact on you in terms of the distress or anxiety that you have suffered as a result.

 

You really need to detail this and then we can turn it into something.

[nellyj99]

Calls twice daily over a three month period. SAR reply was tell us time and date of call and we can then confirm it. Yes in writing ad part of SAR reply from natwest.

 

SAR only shows one address

 

I do not have the letters of incorrect address however I have a bank reply apologising for the error and corrections will be made.

 

I have all copies of each time bank have sent a response assuring data will be removed so yes I have the 2011 copy which is the one that really incriminate the bank.

 

150 cheque was cashed although not in any way full and final as they are still negotiating we are on 1000 pounds at moment.

 

I didn't sign for cheque it was sent in post attached to complaint letter.

 

All emails are archived and bank have provided copies in SAR only as they sent an internal email with me copied in subject line he is back again. There is in exes over 100 emails in last 3 months.

 

I have had to take a wonga loan although this was paid back but was as a reflection/ test of my detrimental credit score.

 

Something so minor has become a daily chore. Being made to doubt myself by the bank unable to sleep as it's affecting me.

 

I will not base my claim on this as I will not use disability but I have aspergers and they are aware of this, you can evaluate the stress yourself determination kicked in and I will prove I'm right

[nellyj99]

A further payment was made as the bank did stand firm compensation was 721 amount of deflation so recently made further payment of 721 - 150 already paid

[nellyj99]

My main concern this will not accept liability and will blame the car. This is what they told me when they said accept our 1000 or have an expensive claim against experian.

 

 

Bullying and intimidation

[Ganymede]

I fail to see how you can pin your poor credit rating solely on this default when your CCJ will be much, much more damaging and probably the reason why you can't get credit for anything.

 

You've limited yourself to £5000 anyway so all of your compensation /losses added together can't exceed this amount.

[BankFodder]

I fail to see how you can pin your poor credit rating solely on this default when your CCJ will be much, much more damaging and probably the reason why you can't get credit for anything.

 

You've limited yourself to £5000 anyway so all of your compensation /losses added together can't exceed this amount.

 

Sorry - is there a CCJ? I didn't notice. Where is it and what is it about?

[nellyj99]

The CCJ has a notice of correction. It's a very minimal amount.

 

Anyways bank fodder I hold my hands up I have the increase to 1000 in writing compensation the claim comment was on telephone.

 

They are going to back down and I am certain of this.

 

Thanks for your help with particulars of Claim. I'm still at a loss putting value to the losses.

 

Is it worth me phoning court see if I can cancel claim and resubmit due to original error however I think serving the particulars will b lance things as I am.. newbie after all.

 

Cra they say the Cra failed to act on there information so they are not liable. Equifax have raised a dispute and this was resolved instantly.

 

I am angered but didn't want to come across irrational what they have done is wrong and all I want is a judgement for breach of bcobs it's not about money it's being taken for a mug. That's got to me.

[nellyj99]

First executive response

 

Dear Mr

 

Thank you for your prompt response.

 

I am sorry that I have not been able to demonstrate to you how seriously I have taken your complaint. I acknowledge that our failure to rectify the error when you first advised us of the mistake has caused you significant upset.ou also mentioned that**had a knock on effect when*pplied*for a credit. As I mentioned in my earlier correspondence if you could provide me with the details of this I will consider what we can do to acknowledge the trouble this caused you.

 

Moving forward you have suggested that you are looking to take the Bank to court as you are not happy with the compensation payment being offered. I accept that there has been some movement in the compensation offered and accepted - by both of us. The most recent offer*I made was intended to show you that we do care and allow you to feel that we have listened. That aside, I had hoped that you would feel that this was fair.

 

You have declined this as you believe you are due between £4000 - £5000. While I can appreciate that you believe this is a reasonable, I can't agree with you. Clearly we have very different view*on this. While I had hoped we could resolve together I believe the best option now is to involve the Financial Ombudsman Service. The Ombudsman Service is designed precisely for situations like this. As an independent arbiter they can review all of the information and make a judgement on what is reasonable. I provided you with details previously that will enable you to refer the case to them.

 

You also asked for a Subject Access Request (SAR) to take place and I have sent your request to our specialist team. They will contact you under separate cover, please note I have also asked them to waive the fee of £10. This does not effect the legality or effectiveness of the SAR.

 

Please accept my apologises again for the poor service you received and the upset caused. I am sorry this is not the outcome that you were looking for and I am disappointed that your relationship with*the*Bank has deteriorated, but I can understand your frustrations.

 

Thank you for allowing me to investigate your complaint and I wish you the best for the future.

 

Kind regards

[nellyj99]

Dear Mr l

 

*

 

Thank you for the further emails, I think I have now got to the bottom of this.

 

*

 

It would seem that my colleagues may have only updated Equifax* and not not the other agencies.* I have asked them to look into this and once I know it has been actioned I will email you.

 

*

 

Further to that I will provide some compensation as it would seem we have not got this right again.

 

*

 

Please accept my apologies again for the poor service.

 

*

 

Regards

 

 

Contradicting themselves here

 

Dear Mr

 

*

 

Thank you for your email, and I am sorry you have had to contact the Bank again.

 

Understandably, I was surprised and disappointed that you have found another problem. To investigate this I have contacted my colleagues in our Credit Reference Team. They checked the records this morning and as per my previous email we have no adverse data logged against you. I have seen the reports which clarify this.

 

*

 

However, I know this has been a major problem for sometime and we have had issues previously. So I am happy to help you to get to the bottom of this. My colleagues said that is not impossible the Credit Reference Agency (CRA) can show different data to what we are reporting. It can also happen that a customer could be looking at historic data rather then current data. We need to ascertain what information and CRA you are looking at. Once we have the information then our CRA Relationship Manager can contact the CRA in question to see what the problem is.

 

*

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

*

 

Kind regards

[nellyj99]

Legal response

 

Dear Mr

 

 

Thank you for your time on the phone yesterday and your patience while I brought myself up to speed on your case.

 

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in correcting the default data on your account. We clearly took longer than we should have to remove the data once informed and this should have been completed before January 2015. I can see that Michael has compensated you with £800.00 for these delays and misinformation

 

Over the last few days you have been in contact as you were certain that the data held was still wrong and recorded a default position, ie the NatWest (NW) account information, in your opinion reflected a previous debt. While I disagree with your conclusion, I do acknowledge that it is confusing. I know we discussed this, however I would like to reaffirm that we are 100% confident that the default data has been removed. I believe that this was conveyed to you in your discussion with the CRA.

 

You did raise a further issue yesterday around the settled date of the account. I hope you don't mind if I take a moment to go over the sequence of events. I think this will help us better understand the decisions taken.

 

In 2008 you opened a NW account. You decided very quickly that you did not want the account and contacted the bank to cancel the account. You believed your account was cancelled at this point and it was only much later when the bank contacted you regarding a debt on the account, that you realised the account was open. You then contacted us to ask for the account to be closed and for the default to be removed. Although the bank could not find any evidence of your earlier request to cancel, we accepted what you told us and closed the account, cleared the outstanding balance and advised the CRA's. The date used to close was February 2011. Essentially as this was closed without evidence of the earlier request, we used the February 2011 date as the date of closure.

 

After discussions with a third party you believe this was wrong. You believe that we should have used the 2008 date to close. I acknowledge why you feel this and if we had the evidence from 2008 I would agree with you. That said we didn't and the decision taken at the time was correct - in my opinion.

 

In an effort to resolve your complaint and to allow you to move forward I have now instructed the CRA's to amend the closure date to 2008. This is a gesture on the banks part and I hope that you are able to, on reflection, acknowledge why we did not do this earlier. Michael will confirm to you when this has been completed. It's evident from speaking to you how unhappy you are with the entire process and you have raised this with the Financial Ombudsman Service. Please feel free to pass my response to them.

 

I am sorry about the initial problems with the CRA records, however I believe that the compensation given and the gesture now, to advise the CRA of a 2008 account closure date will demonstrate our desire to help you. If you believe there are any additional costs or trouble that the delay, between November 2014 to January 2015, caused then please provide us with evidence of the detriment and I will consider these.

 

Thank you for your time and effort in helping us arrive at this position.

 

Kind regards*

*

[nellyj99]

My reply when I questioned the 2001 date again legal team

 

Dear Mr h

 

*

 

My apologies. I should have been clearer that this is our final response and covers all aspects of your complaint. This is why I intimated that you could pass*my response*to the Ombudsman.

 

*

 

Michael compensated you previously for the delays and we will now, as a gesture of goodwill, ask the CRA's to amend the date to 2008. As I mentioned I acknowledge that you do not feel this is sufficient, however I do believe that it is fair.

 

*

 

If there are any other costs or areas that you feel I should consider then I would need to see evidence of these. This should include some actual demonstration of loss or loss of opportunity. For the sake of clarity my response does mean that Michael will not be responding to you. I am sorry that this wasn't clear.

 

*

 

Kind regards

 

*

[nellyj99]

CCJ is from 2009 obtained in default for 400 for overpayment or wages.

 

Notice of correction is documented. Holiday pay was owed so was obtained as no documents were served I have not been in a position to set it aside financially. It expires in two months.

[BankFodder]

Someone will have to explain to me what a notice of correction on a CCJ is.

 

I'm afraid that there is no mechanism in the court to withdraw claims because they have been filed accidentally or because you are new at the game.

 

When you put in claims then they expect them to be done correctly and if you want to withdraw it then I'm afraid that it will be your money down the train – and you will be up to claim that wasted money later on when you restart the claim.

 

Don't worry too much because this additional particulars of claim that we will be filing properly by the end of the week or next Monday will be fine and it will deal with everything.

 

However, we need to make it as competent and as detailed as possible. That is the best way of making sure the you get a judgement or that they will back down.

 

Frankly a judgement is much better than them backing down. The judgement for them is really significant – especially if it is a BCOBS judgement.

 

Just help yourself by helping us to put everything together for you and by the end of the week you will have a pretty good particulars of claim and also with all of this discussion you will understand the issues very thoroughly and you will feel reasonably confident when you get ready for the next step.

 

You need to be reading around the forum very closely to get as much detail as possible on the process of bringing a claim.

 

You must realise that once the bank realises that you are bringing a claim against them, they will spend far more than the value of the claim just trying to smash you.

[Ganymede]

The CCJ has a notice of correction. It's a very minimal amount.

 

Anyways bank fodder I hold my hands up I have the increase to 1000 in writing compensation the claim comment was on telephone.

 

They are going to back down and I am certain of this.

 

Thanks for your help with particulars of Claim. I'm still at a loss putting value to the losses.

 

Is it worth me phoning court see if I can cancel claim and resubmit due to original error however I think serving the particulars will b lance things as I am.. newbie after all.

 

Cra they say the Cra failed to act on there information so they are not liable. Equifax have raised a dispute and this was resolved instantly.

 

I am angered but didn't want to come across irrational what they have done is wrong and all I want is a judgement for breach of bcobs it's not about money it's being taken for a mug. That's got to me.

 

What notice of correction is there?

 

It matters not that the CCJ is only a few hundred pounds, it'll still be extremely damaging.

[nellyj99]

Notice of correction is.

 

Judgement obtained by default documents served to historic address, defendant could not defend. Vindictive claim

 

Every time a search is carried out this notice of correction is displayed.

[BankFodder]

Notice of correction is.

 

Judgement obtained by default documents served to historic address, defendant could not defend. Vindictive claim

 

Every time a search is carried out this notice of correction is displayed.

 

As long as you have a copy of this - it will help. Why didn't you get it setaside?

 

So far as value for loss. Wait until I have drafted it and we will get an idea of what is reasonaable.

 

I gather that they have so far paid you £150 and you have refused £300. Is that correct?

 

To amend your pleadings you will need to make an application to Court and pay the application fee. You'll also have to pay the difference in the appropriate issue fee.

 

This won't be necessary. Luckily he inidicated that further POC would be served. Otherwise he would have to amend the POC with a fee.