Advantage Finance - claiming charges back under hardship + insurance

[dazza12]

Hi,

 

I purchased a car last December using Advantage Finance.

I'm up to date on the payments, but lost my job at the beginning of this month.

I was employed by my own Ltd company, which lost it's main client

and as a result I had no choice but to make myself unemployed.

 

The next payment is due on the 26th of this month (next Wednesday).

I'm aware that being in arrears can cause a problem in this situation

 

 

I need to decide fairly quickly if I need to arrange to hand the car back or to keep it and try to work through the problem.

 

I'm an IT Contractor. It's possible that I may be back in work very shortly,

but a former colleague in the same field as me has been out of work for nearly a year.

 

 

I'm hopeful that I can get some work soon but I need to be prepared for any long term issues.

Although there is an image that people in IT are high earning,

the realism is that I was earning only just enough to support my family so I didn't get a chance to put any money away.

 

If the car has to be handed back or gets repossessed, my brother has kindly agreed to lend me his car until I can afford a 2nd hand one.

So transport won't be an issue for the next few months.

 

I'm aware that I can't VT the vehicle as it's not at the halfway point.

However, looking at the figures, the VT figure is £5436,

the one third figure is £3624.

I've paid £436 plus 8 payments of £286.49 so £2727 has been paid.

 

What would be my best course of action in the circumstances?

Should I tell them to just pick the car up and work out an arrangement to pay whatever the remaining figure is,

or would it be better to speak to them about possibly arranging to pay the missed monthly payment over the next 2-3 months?

 

 

What I don't want to do is find myself in arrears and then try to negotiate

- I understand the fact I'm up to date at the moment may work in my favour.

 

To add to the mix

- as my company has effectively ceased trading it's likely it will be compulsorily liquidated.

As a result as I have an overdrawn Director's Loan that I will be liable for it's possible I may be made bankrupt or forced into an IVA

- if Advantage Finance do start to get nasty

I can just let it happen rather than spend years paying for a car I don't have

(the original plan was to negotiate with the Official Receiver).

[crem]

You don't actually have to have made the 50% payment value to request a VT on the loan,

so this is still an option for you to consider.

 

You do however, have to make the outstanding payment up to the 50% value,

although I am not sure in what time scale you may do this.

 

 

If you need to do it instantly on handing the car back,

then you have to figure out if you can beg/steal/borrow the £2700 that you need.

[heliosuk]

Is the car against your limited company or is it personal finance. I know how the contractor system works having been there before? Speak to your accountant with a view to liquidating the company.

[dazza12]

Is the car against your limited company or is it personal finance. I know how the contractor system works having been there before? Speak to your accountant with a view to liquidating the company.

 

It's on personal finance.

I did consider taking it out against the company,

but as I wanted to use it for personal use as well it worked out financially better for me to do it personally.

 

I paid myself too much over the past 2-3 years so there's an overdrawn director's loan and some outstanding tax debts.

 

 

As the company has no income (and I have no funds personally) I've initiated a compulsory liquidation by ceasing trading -

I've written to HMRC to invite them to wind the company up.

 

 

The director's loan isn't something I can clear over a reasonable period of time

so it's possible I may go Bankrupt or enter an IVA at some stage so any problems Advantage give me are likely to go at that point.

 

I've rang them this morning and they've suggested I pay the £86 and to not worry about the £200 at this stage.

I'm happy to do that for now, but worried if this goes on for too long.

Hopefully they'll be happy for me to spread the missing amount over a number of months.

[dazza12]

EDIT - double posted due to getting database error and refreshing.

Edited October 24, 2011 by dazza12
Database error

[dazza12]

I've had two loans through (Dis)Advantage, the 2nd I'm currently paying off.

The first loan was from about early 2007 until late 2010,

the second loan late 2010 and still running.

Not 100% on dates but as soon as I've got the paperwork I'll update the thread.

 

I don't think I had PPI on either of them, but got signed up to other insurances, including GAP.

I've sent a SAR to them and I'm currently awaiting a response

(no response to my preliminary letter, LBA received by them yesterday giving them a further 14 days).

 

Both vehicles were bought via Creditplus in Poole. On both occasions the paperwork was signed at Creditplus' premises.

 

I recall for the 2nd loan,

I was required to call Advantage to 'agree the terms of the loan'.

In this call I was aggressively sold various insurances,

motor protect, GAP, mechanical breakdown.

 

 

I'd initially refused these but the salesperson reduced the interest rate if I bought them.

I felt compelled to buy them (less to pay every month).

I felt they were taking 'advantage' of my financial position,

knowing that I'd take any option to reduce my payments.

 

What I did find is that I ended up with 2 warranties for the car.

Creditplus had given me 6 months,

Advantage had also given me a year.

I called both shortly after, was told that it was tough - I'd signed the paperwork.

 

During the first loan I had a few late payments.

Collection activity was aggressive, as seen by many people on here.

I was stung for various charges,

 

 

I predict that I ended up paying at least £1000 more than necessary for the car, possibly more.

 

 

In the last 6 months of the loan the Turbo failed on the motorway

- the cost of repair was more than the car was worth

and I had no option but to replace it, leading to the 2nd loan.

 

 

About £1600 of the remainder went onto the 2nd loan.

 

During the 2nd loan, partway through I lost my job.

For a few months I was paying a low figure,

the following few months half payments.

 

 

I then started to pay the contracted amount and due to some success with previous PPI reclaims I paid £1000 lump sum.

 

 

At the moment I understand that I'm still just over £1000 in arrears.

They're 'helpfully' writing to me every month and suggesting they take the odd £20 by direct debit.

As sometimes these fail, I'm getting charges each time.

 

Of course Advantage continue to charge an arrears management fee, helpfully adding £12 on every month.

 

I'm fed up to the back teeth with Advantage.

Had it not been for their policies of stinging the customer for as much as they can get away with

I feel that I'd not only be better off, but I'd not have had to use them for the 2nd loan

- I'd have had enough money to purchase a decent 2nd hand car or repair the original one.

 

 

In fact when I looked into doing this a few months ago and wrote to them to VT the car, the value of the insurances made this unviable.

 

As mentioned I've SAR'ed Advantage and they're currently in default of this, but I've given them the benefit of a further 14 days.

Should I also SAR the dealer (Creditplus)?

 

Any advice that can be given regarding Advantage?

The crap that they dealt me means I'm willing to take this as far as possible.

[dx100uk]

yes they are not very good.

 

that failed vehicle should have been repaied under warranty/soga.

 

you got had

 

have you gotten all the statements yet

has that sar been resolved.

 

there are sev other people on here with advantage issues

 

i'll find the threads

 

for you can by typing

advantage finance

 

in our search of the grey toolbar top left

 

dx

[dazza12]

The first car only had a 3 month warranty.

At the time I wasn't given any option to extend this,

was told it was because of the age of the vehicle.

I did speak to Advantage at the time the turbo failed,

their only option was to suggest refinancing.

 

In terms of statements,

I've got a patchy history from the first loan,

and the second loan I'm missing about 6 months.

I've had nothing from the SAR as yet, hoping that this drops through my letterbox any day now.

 

I've had a search for threads this morning, seems like Advantage like to sail very close to the wind and are nothing short of bullies.

They make Vanquis / Provident look respectable!

 

 

I definately got had - the only reason they exist is to take 'advantage' of the poor or vulnerable.

[dx100uk]

it would be really nice if you had that decision about the first car in writing.

 

you could take them to the cleaners if you have

 

dx

[dazza12]

Unfortunately it wasn't in writing. However I do recall discussing this with Advantage at some point during the negotiations.

 

If Advantage do record their calls, as they've insisted to me many times in the past it may show up - unless they've 'accidentally' deleted it.

[dazza12]

I've now had the 'full' SAR, they insist that nothing else exists.

Unfortunately they don't have details of the conversation I had with them.

Despite advising me in the past that they have phone call recordings going back years.

I've followed that up with a number of emails to them asking why they haven't included various items,

but again being met with an insistence that they've supplied everything.

 

It was only this morning when I asked for a 'final response' so I could refer the matter to FOS

that they suddenly decided that they needed a chance to 'resolve' my complaint.

It's amazing what happens when they're facing an £850 bill for the referral.

Edited August 21, 2013 by dazza12

[MaisyMouse]

You could check your own itemised phone bills, and from that work out when, and for how long you were in conversation with them. With the dates, you can then figure out if you were renewing, cancelling or engaging in conversation on another matter entirely.

[dazza12]

They're now sticking to their 'calls are deleted after 6 months' line, despite threatening to use a call over this limit against me in the distant past.

 

They've also advised that they've got no internal communications by email regarding me.

Funny thing is, I've had plenty of times when I've called for a specific person who hasn't been available and they've emailed them with a message.

They've also not got any communications with external suppliers regarding my account.

Again, I'm not sure how they've managed to administer a repair on the first car,

or deal with the insurers without writing to them.

 

It seems that they think that unless they've scanned the communication at the time, they don't have to supply it.

I've ensured I've corrected them, but they insist they're right.

 

It's going to be pointless referring them to the ICO, as I've discovered first hand how toothless they are.

 

I've asked them to advise me that they consider this their final response.

Time to refer the complaint to FOS

- even if it doesn't go my way at least I'll be satisfied that they've had to pay for an investigation.

 

 

Even if I don't refer it to the FOS, now they've confirmed they don't have any more information,

then they're going to find it very difficult to rely on communications to defend themselves against the charges claim.

 

Their insistence on being difficult is only strengthening my resolve to hit them where it hurts.

The original plan was to get just the charges back,

but I'm now considering the various insurances on the account mis-sold and will be looking into them.

[dazza12]

Hi all,

 

I've had the misfortune to deal with Advantage, due to past credit problems.

I was in the situation where due to my work involving a lot of travel,

I needed something reliable to get me from A to B.

 

I took the loan out in late 2010.

Despite not wanting any insurances, they 'sold' them to me by lowering the interest rate considerably depending on what I took out.

Seems a little odd to me that it's cheaper WITH insurance, rather than not but I digress. I took out GAP, MBI and Motor Protect Plus.

 

When I came to collect the car, I signed all the paperwork and went off on my way.

It was only a couple of weeks later that I realised that the dealer (Creditplus) had included their own warranty with the car.

I contacted Advantage at the time, only to be told that it was too late to remove the insurance.

 

Apart from that, all went well until later that year.

I was a contractor, but had been in the same position for nearly 10 years.

With less than a weeks' notice, my client let me go.

It turned things upside down financially.

 

 

I called Advantage that same day as I wanted to deal with things properly.

I agreed to pay them a token amount that was around £90 (usual payment is nearly £300).

They also verbally agreed that charges would be waived.

 

I was out of work for a total of 6 weeks before finding suitable work.

Unfortunately, the job I found paid around £6k less than I had previously.

This caused some further issues, as I had to tighten my belt significantly.

 

 

With Advantage's agreement I continued paying £90 for 3 more months before negotiating payments of around £150 for the next year.

I had then been promoted enough in my new position to be near my previous wage, however still around £3k down.

I explored my options which included requesting a VT.

I decided to continue paying for the car as it was still needed,

and as such I arranged shortly after to start to pay the original contracted amount.

 

In the meantime I discovered that Advantage were charging me the whole time I had been paying a lower amount.

Wherever they could get a charge applied, they'd done it.

 

 

Mostly 'Arrears Management Fees' but where possible phone or text charges.

A few months after this discovery I SAR'ed them.

I had the misfortune to deal with the extremely arrogant and rude Pam Sizer who thought she could dictate to me what they could and couldn't supply under a SAR.

 

 

Eventually I'd got her to supply everything that they could get hold of.

Unsurprisingly no record of any call where they'd agreed to waive charges or any recordings of calls.

That is until I pushed harder

- the most she could find was a recording of me asking for a balance from a few months previously.

That's it. Almost as if they'd deleted or denied knowledge of anything incriminating.

 

Since I'd previously lost my job, I've been experiencing many financial problems.

As the next few months after getting back into employment I relied on payday loans, Provident etc, it's been like this ever since.

Although I'm getting back on track now,

 

 

I don't think there's been a month in the last 3-4 years where I've not had bank charges or owed one short term lender or another.

Regular direct debits bouncing include council tax, water, utilities etc.

I either end up paying more over the next few months or dip back into a short term lender to 'help'.

 

I'm fairly sure I was in hardship for most of this time.

Advantage have been aware that my salary is lower and I'm struggling.

Yet they have continued to charge.

 

I know it's a difficult question to answer,

but would I fall under the hardship criteria and therefore be eligible to reclaim charges?

If so I can start taking steps to build my case.

 

On potentially a separate but related note,

the very last payment to Advantage is due in the next few days.

It apparently consists entirely of charges as the account was theoretically paid off in November.

I'm planning to tell them that I consider the account to be in dispute

- can I potentially refuse to pay this amount until resolved at this stage?

We're talking just over £100, so peanuts to them.

 

Finally, I've been monitoring my credit record in regards to this account.

They'd shown me to be owing around £500 less than my balance every month for the last few months.

They showed a balance of just over 1 payment in December,

then again updated it in January to be about £3 more.

I'm yet to see this month's update but concerned that they're reporting the wrong value -

could I also use this as grounds for dispute?

 

To summarise, what I'd ultimately like from them is:

 

a) Two of my insurances back.

In particular the warranty as I ended up having two running at once.

If possible the GAP insurance as well

- I told them I didn't want it but they waived a carrot of lower repayments

- could it be suggested that I'd have been penalised with higher repayments if I didn't buy them?

 

b) My charges back. I'd like to think I can claim hardship but is this possible and would it be appropriate in my circumstances?

 

c) Can I stop the last £100 or so from being taken at least for now as the account is in dispute?

 

Thanks for reading and for any replies.

[dx100uk]

numerous threads merged.

 

 

why did you not get this moving before?

you don't need to be in hardhip.

 

 

ads uk and others have threads here already

 

 

get you spreadsheets done

I'd pers lump all the insurances/warranties together

and treat them as you would a PPI reclaim.

 

 

as for the PENALTY fees/arrears/letters/phone/debt management etc etc fixed sum fees

pop them in a sep spreadsheet and get that off two.

 

 

two sep claims

[dazza12]

Hi again DX,

 

Sorry for the 2nd thread - I'd thought I'd discussed this previously but couldn't find the original threads when I searched.

 

I've been under so much stress regarding this that I just completely withdrew from everything. Only realised now it was depression, that's the main reason why nothing was done before. No doubt prompted by the extreme pressure that Advantage were putting me under.

 

I've done the spreadsheets already for the charges, so I'll get something sent off tomorrow. Is it still v101 of the CISheet spreadsheet?

[dx100uk]

that's the one

 

 

good to se you back up and running

 

 

I'd wondered where you'd gone .

 

 

did ads uk ever make contact?

 

 

dx

[dazza12]

He hadn't, but I've had a good read of his thread. Going to go over it again later and take notes.

 

Regarding my insurances

- does the 6 year statute of limitations still apply or is it only a certain time from when I'd become reasonably aware I was mis-sold, as it was with PPI reclaiming?

 

 

I'm considering claiming for the insurances on the 2007 car loan as well as the 2010 one.

 

 

May treat as two claims, but around £1000 from loan 1 rolled over into loan 2.

[dx100uk]

then it will be one claim like a PPI refinance.

 

 

I'd apply the PPI rule 'when you became aware'

 

 

dx

[dazza12]

I didn't have full records of both accounts, so after requesting and receiving these I've now completed my spreadsheets.

 

However, whilst checking my calculations, I'd noticed an anomaly in the way they structure the account,

and I'm concerned it may affect my claim.

Thought I'd double check before sending something that may be incorrect.

 

According to their statements, they add things in this order:

 

1) Advance for the vehicle

2) Acceptance & option fee

3) HP interest

4) Insurances

5) Insurance interest

6) Repayments/Charges etc.

 

They appear to have structured the account so interest has already been worked out at the outset

- it is not added separately or after the event.

 

 

Any further fees on the account do not appear to attract interest.

 

I've used the CISheet spreadsheet to compile my charges,

but this implies that interest has been added onto the charges,

and from what I have seen it's not.

 

 

As Advantage tend to fight all the way to County Court,

I don't want to end up having it thrown out due to asking for something they haven't charged for.

 

Am I correct in this assumption

- that if they've not charged the interest on the charges I can't claim it?

If so, is there a more appropriate spreadsheet template that I should be using?

Does the 8% statutory interest apply in this case?

 

I'm assuming that the insurance claim would be using CISheet due to the fact they've put it on the account

before the interest was worked out so I'll continue with the insurance claim as I did with my PPI reclaims.

[dx100uk]

when you work out PPI as link 1 below

it already has their int included in the PPIPCM % calc.

 

 

as for the charges

I've not had the many advantage reclaimers ever conclude they do not charge int on any charges

nor seen adv refute the CI claim either.

 

 

dx

[theoldrouge]

have you got the two agreements ,if so can you post up minus personal details

 

a useful link

 

http://www.fca.org.uk/news/fca-says-general-insurance-add-on-industry-must-make-changes

[dazza12]

Hopefully the last question for now, hoping to send these off today/tomorrow.

 

As there are two accounts, I've completed a CISheet each. However, to compare I do have an 'all in one' for both accounts available.

 

How do I account for the rollover from account 1 to account 2? There was a balance remaining which was refinanced into the 2nd loan. The first CISheet also has an ending balance. Do I enter the rollover balance or the rollover from the calculations, or both as the first entry on the newer sheet?

 

The amount rolled over from account 1 to 2 is about £400 lower than the CISheet 1 charges/interest figure.

 

Also - theoldrouge, I do have both agreements. I'll get them posted up, but may be a couple of days until I can find time to redact them first. Thank you.

[dx100uk]

same as the PPI calc

 

 

dx

[dazza12]

I've now sent the charges part off. I've treated this as one long loan with the higher of the two interest rates as the interest rate.

 

Just need to finish off the insurance reclaim, hopefully can catch the post later today for that.

 

I'll keep you updated as to progress. I expect Advantage to fight, but I'm ready for them.