Jacobs baliffs for council tax business rates - says i'm going to prison if i dont pay!!

[Steviebrenn]

Hi first post on here

Hope you can help!

 

Received a removal notice of 24 hours today pushed through letter box for council tax business rates 9281.50 +costs

 

Called the enforcement agent just said full amount or will remove property

 

Explained not had any break down to debt nor the amount nor any communications

it a commercial property we are doing up had it for 12. Months and still empty and not open

 

He said unless I pay in full in 24 hours would go to court to get committal warrant

so have to attend immediately with court officer to magistrates and would be given 6 months prison!!

 

Scared out my life

 

He wouldn't help at all

council say it in hands enforcement agency and nothing they can do

 

Help!

 

No communication at all and is he right in being able to have me carted off to court

 

I'm on universal credit

my partner on minimum wage and just manage to pay rent and other bills but nothing lest over

 

In dispute with ova as to valuation of property

we have converted top floor into our flat now

and waiting for a new valuation for business rates

[unclebulgaria67]

All that would happen is that you would have to attend the court,

 

 

where they looked at what scope you had to pay the tax that was due

and to come to an arrangement.

 

 

It is only, if you refused to deal with the court, that it would become more serious.

 

 

The bailiff is trying to scare you, in order to gain payment.

 

Have a look at this link, from which you will see a help sheet on business rates.

 

 

Follow the advice given or if you are not sure, give them a call on their free phone.

 

https://www.businessdebtline.org/EW/information/bailiff%20action%20-%20business%20debts/Pages/Debt-topics-business-bailiffs.aspx

[Steviebrenn]

Thanks for that

 

So can the bailiffs apply for a court hearing or is it only able to. Co from the council after the bailiff has passed the case back to them?

 

The bailiff a Mr bishop said on phone would finish his enquiries tomorrow and have the case straight to court

where by a court officer would one and 'collect' myself and partner and have us taken straight to magistrates

where we would for sure be given a custodial sentence

 

Is this right or is Hearst trying to scare us?

 

 

He succeeded on that one!

[Steviebrenn]

Would we be given notice to attend court like7daysetc or would we be arrested and taken immediately?

In major panic now

[Steviebrenn]

It says on letter left he a enforcement officer not bailiff

 

And also says

 

We have not received satisfactory response to our previous con respondents

 

As enforcement agent in charge,

 

 

I am now instructed to proceed with the removal and sale of your goods.

 

 

removal may take place even in your absence

 

To stop removal action you must contact Mr bishop immediately on [edited] to arrange payment in full within24 hours

 

 

The letter has not even been dated!

 

At bottom letter states from Mr bishop certified enforcement agent

 

Is he legal?

Edited February 24, 2015 by honeybee13
mobile no removed.

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks for that

 

So can the bailiffs apply for a court hearing or is it only able to. Co from the council after the bailiff has passed the case back to them?

 

The bailiff a Mr bishop said on phone would finish his enquiries tomorrow and have the case straight to court

where by a court officer would one and 'collect' myself and partner and have us taken straight to magistrates

where we would for sure be given a custodial sentence

 

Is this right or is Hearst trying to scare us?

 

 

He succeeded on that one!

 

My understanding is that the council would have obtained a liability order from Magistrates. If you refused to come to an arrangement to pay, then the Council or Jacobs can go back to the Magistrates to ask them to insist that you attend the court to be questionned why you were not paying. If you refused to deal with the court, then you could be arrested by Police and the ultimate sanction could be prison.

 

All that Jacobs are doing is telling you the worst case position you could find yourself in.

 

You really need to speak to the council again at a senior level and if necessary ask a local councillor to intervene. You want to come to an arrangement about what you need to pay, but are struggling at the moment. Ask how the council can help you.

[Steviebrenn]

I think the council have a liability order from the magistrates court from back in October

Don't think I've ever seen it though

Not got a breakdown of the 9200+ owed or claimed I owe

Jacobs won't give me any details and council say as in hands of bailiffs nothing they can do!

Have never refused to discuss or given option to have a payment plan in operation

Indeed we are asking for a re assessment of the rat able value as have had some work done and the top floor now no longer commercial waiting on voa over reassessment

Are bailiffs allowed to act in this way seems almost immoral to me and didn't sleep at all last night worrying

[Bailiff Advice]

[quote=Steviebrenn;4698083

 

]I think the council have a liability order from the magistrates court from back in October. Don't think I've ever seen it though

 

Not got a breakdown of the 9200+ owed or claimed I owe

 

Jacobs won't give me any details and council say as in hands of bailiffs nothing they can do! Have never refused to discuss or given option to have a payment plan in operation.

 

Indeed we are asking for a re assessment of the rateable value as have had some work done and the top floor now no longer commercial waiting on voa over reassessment.

 

Are bailiffs allowed to act in this way seems almost immoral to me and didn't sleep at all last night worrying

 

 

Firstly, you will not be sent an actual 'Liability Order'. Instead, you should have received a summons and a letter advising that the Magistrates Court have authorised the Liability Order.

 

Secondly, seeking a revaluation via the VOA is an excellent idea and in a high percentage of cases will eventually lead to a reduction. However, you cannot withhold payment of NNDR whilst awaiting a decision. If this route did allow for cases to be frozen awaiting a response then everyone would apply for re-valuation!!!

 

The bailiff fees would consist of £75 Compliance fee (when the letter was sent) and £235 when the bailiff attends the property seeking payment. In addition to the £235 you would also be liable for a percentage amount) as the debt is over £1,500. This could add another £100 or slightly more to the debt.

 

As for the threat from the bailiff.....at this present time it is just that. Sadly the 'threat' was in a conversation. If it had of been by text I would think that the bailiff could have a problem. Leave that subject to one side at the moment !!

 

You have not said whether or not you trade as an individual or a Limited Company. If LTD then given that the building is empty you have little to worry about. If you trade as a sole trader then the position is not as simple. Please post back and further advice can be given.

 

PS: If the debt is a personal one then you need to be careful if you have a motor vehicle as that can be seized.

[Steviebrenn]

The business rates bill is in mine and my partners names not in a companies one

 

The 2floors we rent we have converted the top floor into a domestic flat for ourselves hence looking via voa to have it removed from commercial listing.

 

The first floor will be a restaurant it is in she'll form at moment with little fixtures and fittings no commercial kitchen put in yet etc

 

The business has not started to trade yet as we are a long way for being open.

 

We do not own a car or vehicle and our personal items have little value most furniture etc second hand!

 

It is impossible for the baliff to be able to get In to the property as the security is very good

 

The bailiff won't speak to us and the council Trafford say as with bailiffs they can't get involved

 

Who do I speak to then?

Or do I have to just wait for a court officer or police to turn up?

[Bailiff Advice]

Stevie.

 

On this forum you will notice that we try to ask a lot of background information as this is vital if an accurate response is required and your reply just now is proof of this.

 

Given what you have stated you actually have little to worry about as far as bailiff enforcement goes

but it would seem that you really need to address your National Non Domestic Rate situation very quickly

as another bill for the 2015/16 period is about to drop on your door mat

and your really should act now by speaking with the council about the property in general and whether or not you are entitled to any exemptions.

 

 

This situation will not go away and the debt already is huge and with the new bill coming in a few weeks you will both have a debt of nearly £20,000.

 

 

Also, you could have problems if you are trying to claim for the property being empty as it seems from your answer

(although not too clearly) that you and your partner may be living in the upstairs part of the building.

 

PS: Court Officer or Police will not be attending. Please stop worrying.

[unclebulgaria67]

The business rates bill is in mine and my partners names not in a companies one

The 2floors we rent we have converted the top floor into a domestic flat for ourselves hence looking via voa to have it removed from commercial listing.

The first floor will be a restaurant it is in she'll form at moment with little fixtures and fittings no commercial kitchen put in yet etc

The business has not started to trade yet as we are a long way for being open.

We do not own a car or vehicle and our personal items have little value most furniture etc second hand!

It is impossible for the baliff to be able to get I to thee property as the security is very good

The bailiff won't speak to us and the council Trafford say as with bailiffs they can't get involved

Who do I speak to then?

Or do I have to just wait for a court officer or police to turn up?

 

Do you own the building ?

 

If there is nothing in this building that they can take, you might as well invite Jacobs to attend, where you will let them in to have a look around. Explain the situation to them, that you have nothing that would pay the council the money and they should return the case to the council.

 

If you own the building, once it is back with the council, you can then negotiate what is actually due and you can volunteer for the council to have a charge on the property. This means that the council would get paid when the building is sold or you can enter into repayments with the council, with the charge being removed, when you have paid the amount.

 

You need to get proper financial/legal advice about your situation, as you can end up being made bankrupt, which would ruin your chances of setting up this business or future businesses . Perhaps there are ways you can limit your personal risk of being liable for business debts.

[numbers666]

Hi,

 

Did you apply for empty property relief ?

Did you apply for small business rate relief ?

 

For the coming year - set up a LTD company. The clue is in the name it limits the liability to the company entity.

 

You need to get the domestic part of the building classified as that NOW. Bailiffs have no access to residential parts of the building for business rates.

 

If your property is not capable of beneficial occupation, for example, if it is in poor condition and cannot be economically repaired, your valuation officer may judge that it should be taken out of the rating list altogether - does this apply.

 

You need to converse with the LA now. It may be that you have not taken advantage of the reductions available.

 

N

[Steviebrenn]

Spoken to council

Kind of helpful

They won't kick bailiffs out and take debt back but said if I pay what can afford to start with to them could help my case

They will look into small rate relief etc

They want income expenditure from me also

Head office of bailiffs just said was a matter for bailiff agent

Haven't even bothered to speak to him all he says is full amount

Just concerned he will keep hounding us

Top floor now a one bed flat we both live in

Have to go through first floor to get to top floor

First floor empty as want to convert to restaurant eventually

Voa spoke to waiting them to attend with re assessment

Surveyor asked for re inspection

Rent building on five year lease in own names

[Bailiff Advice]

Spoken to council

Kind of helpful

They won't kick bailiffs out and take debt back but said if I pay what can afford to start with to them could help my case

They will look into small rate relief etc

They want income expenditure from me also

Head office of bailiffs just said was a matter for bailiff agent

Haven't even bothered to speak to him all he says is full amount

Just concerned he will keep hounding us

Top floor now a one bed flat we both live in

Have to go through first floor to get to top floor

First floor empty as want to convert to restaurant eventually

Voa spoke to waiting them to attend with re assessment

Surveyor asked for re inspection

Rent building on five year lease in own names

 

Stevie,

 

I am assuming from your brief one liners above that you are posting from a mobile device. If you do get time later to please do post back.

 

PS: Not a bad response from the council at all. You may find it far better to send a text message to the bailiff instead of spekaing with him.

[Steviebrenn]

Hi there yep on my mobile at moment!

Think it's kind of straighter now I think

Council won't take the debt back

I can pay what ever to the council although they won't agree that it's a re payment plan they will just pass payments on to bailiffs

Council said bailiffs will eventually pass it back to council who then decide to go for communal proceedings or bankruptcy

Or possibly agree to payment plan

Said is a long process not one over night

Bailiffs will still be in back ground whole time

Been told no other way to sort this out!!

Just want to make sure bailiffs can't do anything to me or my property

Are bailiffs able to put levy on furniture etc?

It not new all second hand and not worth much at all?

Or should I just not let them in?

[Steviebrenn]

Just had another letter delivered 5pm deadline or property will be removed!

Removal may take place in your absence

Can they do that?

[brassnecked]

Just had another letter delivered 5pm deadline or property will be removed!

Removal may take place in your absence

Can they do that?

All they can go after is what is outside, say a car or van, Jacobs are clamp happy so keep any cars away from your property, they cannot force entry, but can try a door and come in if it is unlocked, they cannot climb through windowa any more.

[Steviebrenn]

So the letter they shoved through letter box is just to scare us then?

Nothing they can do to force entry

[ploddertom]

 

So the letter they shoved through letter box is just to scare us then?

 

 

Only if they have used their red crayons on it to make it look scary. Bailiffs can be full of hot air & ****.

 

Intimidation may work unless you know what they can & can't do. By threatening you with arrest he has overstepped the mark by over use of any power he may have, that in itself would be enough to file a complaint against him but as it was just verbal would be hard to prove.

[Steviebrenn]

Will the bailiff carry on putting mail through my door or try to gain access until I give in to them?

Is it worth me speaking to the bailiff again and say he wasting his time?

[Steviebrenn]

Have the whole conversation on record

Didn't tell him was recording it but everyone seems to record conversations for 'training' purposes I did to!

[ploddertom]

Providing you keep the door locked so he cannot gain entry there is nothing he can do. Without a Controlled Goods Agreement he can visit lots of times but can charge no more, he certainly will not waste too much time but who knows how long this may take. Did you ever receive a Notice of Enforcement? Have you asked the Council how much you owe - could be different to what the Bailiff says, how many Liability Orders they have and the dates each one covers?

[Steviebrenn]

Waiting on council to come back to me with figures it for this current financial year

They have one liability order for October

Edited February 25, 2015 by Steviebrenn

[brassnecked]

You have a recording of him saying he will have you arrested and sent to prison after he sells your goods he can only sell them if you let him in to take control of them.? If so keep the recording safe copy it to an mp3 file and send it as an email attachment as a Formal Complaint to the Council CEO, copied to Jacobs backed up by a hard copy marked Formal Complaint

[ploddertom]

OK - lets see what you actually have.

 

1 - did you ever receive notification from the Council that:

i - you were behind or had not made any payments

ii - that they were going to Court - giving date etc - to obtain a Liability Order for non payment

iii - that they had obtained a Liability order against you

If you receieved none of the above then you must ask the Council what address everything was sent to.

 

2 - did you receive from Jacobs

i - a Notice of Enforcement - if so

a - when was the letter dated

b - when did you receive it

c - how was it sent and by what service

d - the date it says you had to contact them by

I f not received you need to ask for a copy